Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

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2014
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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby 2014 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:15 am

Sorry I didn't mean to insinuate earlier that M is clinging to T14 in such a way that UCLA/USC/UT/Vandy are knocking at their door. I meant they are clinging onto their distinction within the T14 which is a part of "MVP" or at worst MVPDCN. Given their placement and trajectory, Michigan seems reasonably placed right next to GULC and I imagine it will settle in at 13th within the next few years.

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IAFG
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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby IAFG » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:17 am

2014 wrote:Sorry I didn't mean to insinuate earlier that M is clinging to T14 in such a way that UCLA/USC/UT/Vandy are knocking at their door. I meant they are clinging onto their distinction within the T14 which is a part of "MVP" or at worst MVPDCN. Given their placement and trajectory, Michigan seems reasonably placed right next to GULC and I imagine it will settle in at 13th within the next few years.

again, which metric of USNWR are they going to falter on. USNWR isn't based on the TLS hivemind.

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scifiguy
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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby scifiguy » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:18 am

Last comment before I need to go study! Have a quiz coming up and neglecting study time right now.

This therad is definitely enlightening. Kind of helped dispel some perceptions I had and confirmed others.

So thanks to all!

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2014
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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby 2014 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:20 am

IAFG wrote:
2014 wrote:Sorry I didn't mean to insinuate earlier that M is clinging to T14 in such a way that UCLA/USC/UT/Vandy are knocking at their door. I meant they are clinging onto their distinction within the T14 which is a part of "MVP" or at worst MVPDCN. Given their placement and trajectory, Michigan seems reasonably placed right next to GULC and I imagine it will settle in at 13th within the next few years.

again, which metric of USNWR are they going to falter on. USNWR isn't based on the TLS hivemind.

The Mr. contended at some point in the last 6 months that their reputation scores are going to take a hit when the boomers realize they are no longer a top 5 school. Furthermore they are a public school with not great job placement, and while afaik their endowment is well funded for now, their budget can't be in great shape and future donations depend on placing graduates into jobs (I would think). That could fuck their expenditures.

Their medians already suck, don't see those going up any time soon.

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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby Blessedassurance » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:24 am

psa: ranking debates need to stop
Last edited by Blessedassurance on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

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IAFG
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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby IAFG » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:25 am

2014 wrote:
IAFG wrote:
2014 wrote:Sorry I didn't mean to insinuate earlier that M is clinging to T14 in such a way that UCLA/USC/UT/Vandy are knocking at their door. I meant they are clinging onto their distinction within the T14 which is a part of "MVP" or at worst MVPDCN. Given their placement and trajectory, Michigan seems reasonably placed right next to GULC and I imagine it will settle in at 13th within the next few years.

again, which metric of USNWR are they going to falter on. USNWR isn't based on the TLS hivemind.

The Mr. contended at some point in the last 6 months that their reputation scores are going to take a hit when the boomers realize they are no longer a top 5 school. Furthermore they are a public school with not great job placement, and while afaik their endowment is well funded for now, their budget can't be in great shape and future donations depend on placing graduates into jobs (I would think). That could fuck their expenditures.

Their medians already suck, don't see those going up any time soon.

it's pretty clear the reputation scores are already disjoint from placement, and i don't see what's going to change perceptionwise in the next few years. law is too slow to change.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:27 am

Blessedassurance wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:CLerkship placement from 2011:

Y: 33%
S: 24%
H: 16%

But like I said before, we need to use long term averages. As far as I'm concerned they are equal, so I wouldn't agree with this:

scifiguy wrote: But yeah, H isn't on the same level as Y and S


those are numbers are disputable, you should try to cite...there is another source that places h's numbers above that

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/c ... clerkships

also, see UW at #4...lol

Those are for the class of 2010. I was using the ABA report for the class of 2011.

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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby Blessedassurance » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:29 am

i regret posting in this thread
Last edited by Blessedassurance on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:30 am

Reputation scores among lawyers/judges:

Harvard: 4.8 (BlessedAssurance going nuts)
Y/S: 4.7
Columbia/Chicago/Michigan: 4.6
NYU/Penn/GULC: 4.5
Berk/Duke/NU/Cornell: 4.4

I think Michigan will be okay for a little while longer.

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Crowing
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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby Crowing » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:32 am

IAFG wrote:
2014 wrote:
IAFG wrote:
2014 wrote:Sorry I didn't mean to insinuate earlier that M is clinging to T14 in such a way that UCLA/USC/UT/Vandy are knocking at their door. I meant they are clinging onto their distinction within the T14 which is a part of "MVP" or at worst MVPDCN. Given their placement and trajectory, Michigan seems reasonably placed right next to GULC and I imagine it will settle in at 13th within the next few years.

again, which metric of USNWR are they going to falter on. USNWR isn't based on the TLS hivemind.

The Mr. contended at some point in the last 6 months that their reputation scores are going to take a hit when the boomers realize they are no longer a top 5 school. Furthermore they are a public school with not great job placement, and while afaik their endowment is well funded for now, their budget can't be in great shape and future donations depend on placing graduates into jobs (I would think). That could fuck their expenditures.

Their medians already suck, don't see those going up any time soon.

it's pretty clear the reputation scores are already disjoint from placement, and i don't see what's going to change perceptionwise in the next few years. law is too slow to change.


Something is at play though - Mich has had a pretty distinct downward trend in the rankings since their inception. Last year was the first year they dropped as low as #10. I mean I haven't done my research so I don't know if it's dropping medians or reputation or what, but the pattern is already there.

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2014
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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby 2014 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:35 am

I think it's clear they are more likely to fall in the rankings than to go up. I feel like their equilibrium is 13th, it's just a matter of how long it takes to get there.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:43 am

Crowing wrote:Something is at play though - Mich has had a pretty distinct downward trend in the rankings since their inception. Last year was the first year they dropped as low as #10. I mean I haven't done my research so I don't know if it's dropping medians or reputation or what, but the pattern is already there.

The "since inception" thing is misleading because they were #3 way back in 1987 and haven't been better than 6th since.

As far as last year's ranking, their score was 86 while Penn/Berk/UVA were at 87, so Mich was much closer to PVB than Duke (84). Cornell was way down at 81. These things just don't change that quickly, and I doubt they'll start to unless USNews really updates the metrics.

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Crowing
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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby Crowing » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:44 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
Crowing wrote:Something is at play though - Mich has had a pretty distinct downward trend in the rankings since their inception. Last year was the first year they dropped as low as #10. I mean I haven't done my research so I don't know if it's dropping medians or reputation or what, but the pattern is already there.

The "since inception" thing is misleading because they were #3 way back in 1987 and haven't been better than 6th since.

As far as last year's ranking, their score was 86 while Penn/Berk/UVA were at 87, so Mich was much closer to PVB than Duke (84). Cornell was way down at 81. These things just don't change that quickly, and I doubt they'll start to unless USNews really updates the metrics.


Yeah it's not that drastic but the trend is definitely there. Conveniently, kappycaft1 just compiled the rankings in another forum.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... SlE&gid=45

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:51 am

Crowing wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
Crowing wrote:Something is at play though - Mich has had a pretty distinct downward trend in the rankings since their inception. Last year was the first year they dropped as low as #10. I mean I haven't done my research so I don't know if it's dropping medians or reputation or what, but the pattern is already there.

The "since inception" thing is misleading because they were #3 way back in 1987 and haven't been better than 6th since.

As far as last year's ranking, their score was 86 while Penn/Berk/UVA were at 87, so Mich was much closer to PVB than Duke (84). Cornell was way down at 81. These things just don't change that quickly, and I doubt they'll start to unless USNews really updates the metrics.


Yeah it's not that drastic but the trend is definitely there. Conveniently, kappycaft1 just compiled the rankings in another forum.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... SlE&gid=45

Yeah I guess I just don't see the trend, especially in light of the fact that they were one point away from repeating their 7th place spot last year.

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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby Skye » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:59 am

I believe the order of rankings do matter given Penn's impressive [BL] employment stats. . . Penn has been #6 or #7 for 9 of the last 10 years.

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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby IAFG » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:09 am

Skye wrote:I believe the order of rankings do matter given Penn's impressive [BL] employment stats. . . Penn has been #6 or #7 for 9 of the last 10 years.

they're beating NU by a couple percentage points, less than the difference in the size their respective JDMBA programs. in the bigger scheme of things, the differences are too small to really differentiate on.

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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby scifiguy » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:09 am

vzapana wrote:
scifiguy wrote:
Pizzaburger wrote:The whole Penn placement thing probably results from the fact that they tend to admit really good looking people and employers like to hire good looking people. It's good for business. win win for everyone.

Is this serious?

I do have a lot of acne. :cry:


hope you didn't send a photo with your app to penn law..


Hey, does Penn really require a photo with app?

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby Elston Gunn » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:29 am

scifiguy wrote:
vzapana wrote:
scifiguy wrote:
Pizzaburger wrote:The whole Penn placement thing probably results from the fact that they tend to admit really good looking people and employers like to hire good looking people. It's good for business. win win for everyone.

Is this serious?

I do have a lot of acne. :cry:


hope you didn't send a photo with your app to penn law..


Hey, does Penn really require a photo with app?


I didn't apply to Penn, but HYS require an actor-style headshot on glossy paper, and several wallet-size photos of you and your family.

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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby Wahoos » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:25 pm

Just do T-777

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Crowing
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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby Crowing » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:33 pm

Well since this thread already sucks maybe we should just turn it into the "let's talk about the upcoming USNWR rankings" thread instead of letting another shit-thread get started for that purpose.

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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby 2014 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:17 am

Chicago to #4, calling it now.

I'm not biased

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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby Skye » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:31 am

Penn will rise to T-6 again. Probably a 6/6 tie with NYU, possibly Chicago. No idea if any school will drop out of the T-14.

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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby scifiguy » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:40 am

Crowing wrote:Well since this thread already sucks maybe we should just turn it into the "let's talk about the upcoming USNWR rankings" thread instead of letting another shit-thread get started for that purpose.


I actually learned a bit from this thread. Didn't think it was useless actually.

I guess many already knew GULC was the worst T14, but still...it helped to see more concretely why. And I didn't know Penn performed so well either....overly long thread, yeah. But still a few nuggets of interesting info. here and there.

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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby law2015 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:08 am

Skye wrote:Penn will rise to T-6 again. Probably a 6/6 tie with NYU, possibly Chicago. No idea if any school will drop out of the T-14.


T6 is not changing anytime soon. According to last year's rankings NYU was closer to Harvard than Penn was to NYU. It will actually be pretty funny if Penn drops below the seventh spot. Maybe it will tone down the Penn trolling just a little.

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Re: Outside HYS, Does T14 School Ordering Matter?

Postby JO 14 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:36 am

Probably not is the likely answer to the topic's question.

All of the T-14 schools deliver a superior path to OCI if your grades are somewhere between LR and median-ish. The common result is BL. However, given the incredibly high NYC COL and since BL firms have offices in large cities throughout the U.S, isn’t the goal to work for BL somewhere other than NYC?

Is there a drawback not working in your firm’s NYC office?




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