Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

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cinephile
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby cinephile » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:03 pm

Scotusnerd wrote:Yeah, there's a pretty simple way to tell, actually. And free!

http://www.supremecourt.gov/

Start reading the decisions. See if you like it, or if any particular area of law interests you. See if you can understand what they're talking about. Buy a law dictionary or find a free, online version and figure out the latin phrases and terminology.

If the Supreme Court is too much of a pain in the ass, check out your local state supreme court instead, whatever it's called. Learn about your judicial system and figure out which one is the top dog.

If you think you want to be like law and order and go all prosecutor/defense attorney, I have an easy way to tell that as well.

Go watch guilty pleas at your local courthouse for two or three days. No, not trials, because those happen maybe a few times a year, if you're lucky. Guilty pleas. Talk to a PD or a prosecutor and see if you can't ask them some questions about their job. See if you can stand them personally.


Basically, at the end of the day, lawyers make their money doing very boring shit that no one else wants to do. If you are (mildly) interested in doing said boring shit, then you should go to law school. If you can't stand said boring shit, then you should probably find another career. The job market is too competitive to justify going to law school for any reason other than 'I enjoy doing this.'

Good luck!


No. Not at all.

I know a girl who worked as a paralegal for sometime before law school. She absolutely loves legal work and she probably reads opinions for fun. But she did terribly in law school and, as far as I know, she doesn't have a legal job. Obviously, it's not something that could have been predicted before she started law school, but I just want to make clear that loving what you do won't make you more successful at it. At the same time there's a guy from my 1L class who is here because his parents are forcing him to go to law school. He clearly does not give a fuck about anything, and yet he's doing great because he's some kind of law school genius. Being able to spot issues on an exam has no relation to your love of the law.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby Scotusnerd » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:27 pm

cinephile wrote:No. Not at all.

I know a girl who worked as a paralegal for sometime before law school. She absolutely loves legal work and she probably reads opinions for fun. But she did terribly in law school and, as far as I know, she doesn't have a legal job. Obviously, it's not something that could have been predicted before she started law school, but I just want to make clear that loving what you do won't make you more successful at it. At the same time there's a guy from my 1L class who is here because his parents are forcing him to go to law school. He clearly does not give a fuck about anything, and yet he's doing great because he's some kind of law school genius. Being able to spot issues on an exam has no relation to your love of the law.


I never said that enjoying it equated to success. You still have to do the grunt work and figure your shit out, just like everyone else. I'm talking about being able to stand it in the first place, and being able to get and hold onto a job afterwards.

And don't be so quick to judge the guy from your class that doesn't give a fuck. I don't know him personally, but I'll bet he puts in more hours than you think he does. And I'll bet he studies them in a smart manner.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby Tom Joad » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:39 pm

Scotusnerd wrote:
cinephile wrote:No. Not at all.

I know a girl who worked as a paralegal for sometime before law school. She absolutely loves legal work and she probably reads opinions for fun. But she did terribly in law school and, as far as I know, she doesn't have a legal job. Obviously, it's not something that could have been predicted before she started law school, but I just want to make clear that loving what you do won't make you more successful at it. At the same time there's a guy from my 1L class who is here because his parents are forcing him to go to law school. He clearly does not give a fuck about anything, and yet he's doing great because he's some kind of law school genius. Being able to spot issues on an exam has no relation to your love of the law.


I never said that enjoying it equated to success. You still have to do the grunt work and figure your shit out, just like everyone else. I'm talking about being able to stand it in the first place, and being able to get and hold onto a job afterwards.

And don't be so quick to judge the guy from your class that doesn't give a fuck. I don't know him personally, but I'll bet he puts in more hours than you think he does. And I'll bet he studies them in a smart manner.

You could certainly get great grades just by going to class and paying attention and doing nothing else.

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sopranorleone
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby sopranorleone » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:52 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
manofjustice wrote:If you go to a school with a median LSAT of 155 and your is 170, you'll do well. If you go to Harvard, not so much. Rocket science.

85% chance of above median, 35% chance of top 10%


I disagree. A student in that situation will make top 10% every time. 60% of the time.

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Teflon_Don
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby Teflon_Don » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:36 pm

scifiguy wrote:Are there any data or metrics that have been able to predict how well someone would do in law school?

For example, do STEM majors tend to do better than humanities majors in law school? Do people with higher LSATs do better than those with lower LSATs?

Is there any way you could maybe figure out how well you'd do prior to attending law school? Law seems weird in that there aren't undergraduate courses that necessarily share the same content am I right? Like with medical school, business school and gradatuate work in any field you'll at least ahve had some similar or overlapping coursework right? So, presumably, you'd have an idea of how hard the work is and whether you'd like it. Waht's up with law not having that?

Are there any predictors we could use for law school to tell either how well we'd do or if we'd even like the work?

Thank you guys.


Yes, the Law School Admissions Test is a 100% accurate indicator of success in law school.

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cinephile
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby cinephile » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Scotusnerd wrote:I never said that enjoying it equated to success. You still have to do the grunt work and figure your shit out, just like everyone else. I'm talking about being able to stand it in the first place, and being able to get and hold onto a job afterwards.

And don't be so quick to judge the guy from your class that doesn't give a fuck. I don't know him personally, but I'll bet he puts in more hours than you think he does. And I'll bet he studies them in a smart manner.


Actually, that is what you implied. People say things like that all the time, to just do what you love and success will follow. I wanted to make clear that this is not a valid way of approaching law school. The truth is, you can't predict your success going in, so you might as well go to the best school possible so that even if you end up at median, you still have good options.

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Sheffield
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby Sheffield » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:17 pm

cinephile wrote:The truth is, you can't predict your success going in, so you might as well go to the best school possible so that even if you end up at median, you still have good options.

+1. I would add that if the best LS you secure isn’t on the “best list,” then forget about it. You do not want to be in the group of 20,000 that exit LS deep in debt, without an offer.

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typ3
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby typ3 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:29 pm

FWIW I'm way above medians at my school. However, I'm only slightly above median simply because 1. I have a scholarship without stips 2. I have employment so I give 0 fucks. My fiance came in slightly above median with a scholarship (she's an enginerd) and she is top 2%. She'll tell you that I am a "smarter" and more "intelligent" person. However, my idea of studying for an exam is finding a random online on outline depot the night before exams whereas she is studying and doing notes all semester long. IDK if she does well because she is smart or because she gives a lot more fucks than I do. However, she works around 90x harder than I do.

TLDR: Law school can be random but doing some work will help you over people who do no work.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby Scotusnerd » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:33 pm

cinephile wrote:Actually, that is what you implied. People say things like that all the time, to just do what you love and success will follow. I wanted to make clear that this is not a valid way of approaching law school. The truth is, you can't predict your success going in, so you might as well go to the best school possible so that even if you end up at median, you still have good options.


I completely agree that it isn't a valid way of approaching law school. It is an element of approaching law school. I agree that you can't predict your success going in, but I do not come at the same end-game conclusion that you should go to the best school.

You should examine your situation carefully, determine what option is best for you specifically, and then follow that path. Do some research. Don't fall into groupthink idealogies about how better-ranking schools are always the best. If you want to practice in Alaska, go find a school that you know is a feeder to Alaska. If you want to go practice in biglaw and don't care where you end up, then go for the school that you can most assuredly get into biglaw.

Don't fall into the trap that the school "rankings" or "better" schools mean that they are "better" for you. The US rankings are nothing more than a tool, and an imperfect one, that is used to determine which law schools meet their criterion for what makes a good school. Do not assume it is perfect, approach it with caution, and use it for what it is worth. For biglaw and biggovermnet, the US rankings are likely worthwhile. If you want to do real estate with a local attorney, or work as a PD or Prosecutor, than they are not as helpful for you. If you want to clerk for a federal CoA judge, figure out what schools are feeder schools and get to it there. I can promise you that not every circuit or CoA judge wants a Yalite working for them, and they don't subscribe to the same set of ideas you do when looking at law schools.

Also, don't think this doesn't mean you have to work hard. While knowing that you want to be a lawyer is a good first step, you still have to work hard. Period. Oh...and work smart too.

Hope this helps.

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dingbat
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby dingbat » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:33 pm

typ3 wrote:TLDR: Law school can be random but doing some work will help you over people who do no work.

Damn! I'm screwed :(

09042014
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:37 pm

minnbills wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:
Boggs wrote:ITT, DF proves to be an unpleasant person... and desperate to maintain internet supremacy. Dream big.

Sounds like he has IRL supremacy.


Let's see if he makes partner first. Hint, he's not going to.


lol no way i make partner

MinEMorris
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby MinEMorris » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:27 pm

.
Last edited by MinEMorris on Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby NoodleyOne » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:34 am

Scotusnerd wrote:
cinephile wrote:Actually, that is what you implied. People say things like that all the time, to just do what you love and success will follow. I wanted to make clear that this is not a valid way of approaching law school. The truth is, you can't predict your success going in, so you might as well go to the best school possible so that even if you end up at median, you still have good options.


I completely agree that it isn't a valid way of approaching law school. It is an element of approaching law school. I agree that you can't predict your success going in, but I do not come at the same end-game conclusion that you should go to the best school.

You should examine your situation carefully, determine what option is best for you specifically, and then follow that path. Do some research. Don't fall into groupthink idealogies about how better-ranking schools are always the best. If you want to practice in Alaska, go find a school that you know is a feeder to Alaska. If you want to go practice in biglaw and don't care where you end up, then go for the school that you can most assuredly get into biglaw.

Don't fall into the trap that the school "rankings" or "better" schools mean that they are "better" for you. The US rankings are nothing more than a tool, and an imperfect one, that is used to determine which law schools meet their criterion for what makes a good school. Do not assume it is perfect, approach it with caution, and use it for what it is worth. For biglaw and biggovermnet, the US rankings are likely worthwhile. If you want to do real estate with a local attorney, or work as a PD or Prosecutor, than they are not as helpful for you. If you want to clerk for a federal CoA judge, figure out what schools are feeder schools and get to it there. I can promise you that not every circuit or CoA judge wants a Yalite working for them, and they don't subscribe to the same set of ideas you do when looking at law schools.

Also, don't think this doesn't mean you have to work hard. While knowing that you want to be a lawyer is a good first step, you still have to work hard. Period. Oh...and work smart too.

Hope this helps.

This post is shit. Boomer nonsense.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby Scotusnerd » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:55 am

NoodleyOne wrote:This post is shit. Boomer nonsense.


D'aw, I'm flattered you think I'm an old fart.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby NoodleyOne » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:03 am

Scotusnerd wrote:
NoodleyOne wrote:This post is shit. Boomer nonsense.


D'aw, I'm flattered you think I'm an old fart.

Shitboomer wannabe... this is far worse than I thought.

fosterp
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby fosterp » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:14 am

Being resourceful is probably the key to success. Figuring out how your professors exams are going to go, what his expectations are, utilizing resources that will teach you important things your professors won't (how to take exams), utilizing resources that will fill in your gaps of knowledge that will inevitably be created by the standard casebook method, and finding a study pattern that will keep you from burning out before your last final but still get you the knowledge you need - doing these things isn't restricted to the smartest or the hardest working.

It's my opinion that your LSAT score is going to reflect a lot on your ability to be resourceful. Most people aren't 170+ naturally, and the people that get up there did so with hard work, figuring out the test, and using the resources available to do so without banging your head against a wall endlessly.

It's true that you will be grouped with people with similar scores. I would venture to guess that the ranks go as such: top numbers that got in with money > splitters > median sitters > reverse splitters

People like to say being bad at test taking shouldn't reflect predicted law school performance...but law school is all about the exams, and exams are designed to be a time crunch, and the skills needed to game the LSAT are very similar to the skills you will use to game the LS exam.




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