Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

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scifiguy
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Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby scifiguy » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:04 am

Are there any data or metrics that have been able to predict how well someone would do in law school?

For example, do STEM majors tend to do better than humanities majors in law school? Do people with higher LSATs do better than those with lower LSATs?

Is there any way you could maybe figure out how well you'd do prior to attending law school? Law seems weird in that there aren't undergraduate courses that necessarily share the same content am I right? Like with medical school, business school and gradatuate work in any field you'll at least ahve had some similar or overlapping coursework right? So, presumably, you'd have an idea of how hard the work is and whether you'd like it. Waht's up with law not having that?

Are there any predictors we could use for law school to tell either how well we'd do or if we'd even like the work?

Thank you guys.

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dingbat
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby dingbat » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:10 am

scifiguy wrote:Are there any data or metrics that have been able to predict how well someone would do in law school?

For example, do STEM majors tend to do better than humanities majors in law school? Do people with higher LSATs do better than those with lower LSATs?

Is there any way you could maybe figure out how well you'd do prior to attending law school? Law seems weird in that there aren't undergraduate courses that necessarily share the same content am I right? Like with medical school, you'll at least ahve had some similar or overlapping coursework right? So, presumably, you'd have an idea of how hard the work is and whether you'd like it.

Are there any predictors we could use for law school to tell either how well we'd do or if we'd even like the work?

Thank you guys.
1a) how well you do on the LSAT correlated to how well you'll do in law school
1b) but that doesn't mean you'll do well in your law school because everyone will be in a narrow band with each other
2a) which law school you get accepted to correlates with how well you'll do in law school
2b) but that doesn't matter because everyone else attending a school got in there as well
3a) how hard you're willing to work correlates to how well you'll do in law school
3b) but that only matters if you don't do jack shit, because everyone else will also be working damn hard
4) even if you've had classes on the law, they're not the same as law school classes, so they don't help jack shit - they're about teaching the law, not teaching an understanding of the law (there's a difference)

Simply put, not really

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scifiguy
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby scifiguy » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:13 am

What about getting into a high ranked LS with high LSAT and taking a full ride to a lowre ranked school?

Would that make me more likely to do well at my lower ranked school, because presumably people there couldn't get into better schools and had worse LSATs? And would the copetition be lower there than at a higher ranked school?

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby Scotusnerd » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:16 am

Yeah, there's a pretty simple way to tell, actually. And free!

http://www.supremecourt.gov/

Start reading the decisions. See if you like it, or if any particular area of law interests you. See if you can understand what they're talking about. Buy a law dictionary or find a free, online version and figure out the latin phrases and terminology.

If the Supreme Court is too much of a pain in the ass, check out your local state supreme court instead, whatever it's called. Learn about your judicial system and figure out which one is the top dog.

If you think you want to be like law and order and go all prosecutor/defense attorney, I have an easy way to tell that as well.

Go watch guilty pleas at your local courthouse for two or three days. No, not trials, because those happen maybe a few times a year, if you're lucky. Guilty pleas. Talk to a PD or a prosecutor and see if you can't ask them some questions about their job. See if you can stand them personally.


Basically, at the end of the day, lawyers make their money doing very boring shit that no one else wants to do. If you are (mildly) interested in doing said boring shit, then you should go to law school. If you can't stand said boring shit, then you should probably find another career. The job market is too competitive to justify going to law school for any reason other than 'I enjoy doing this.'

Good luck!

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby Scotusnerd » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:20 am

scifiguy wrote:What about getting into a high ranked LS with high LSAT and taking a full ride to a lowre ranked school?

Would that make me more likely to do well at my lower ranked school, because presumably people there couldn't get into better schools and had worse LSATs? And would the copetition be lower there than at a higher ranked school?


The level of competetiveness has nothing to do with the level of the school and everything to do with the school culture. Visit individual schools and figure out what they're like.

And be careful with TTTs. Yes, the competition is lower to an extent, because local rich people send their kids there, but that doesn't mean that they are all stupid, lazy and incompetent. In fact, a significant minority of people score high on the LSAT, and use it as leverage to get scholarships and go to these schools, so they can get in the top rank of their class. Also, depending on the market, getting a job is a much more dicey proposition.

It is not easy, no matter where you go.

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dingbat
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby dingbat » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:24 am

scifiguy wrote:What about getting into a high ranked LS with high LSAT and taking a full ride to a lowre ranked school?

Would that make me more likely to do well at my lower ranked school, because presumably people there couldn't get into better schools and had worse LSATs? And would the copetition be lower there than at a higher ranked school?

then you should do better, but it's not guaranteed, and there have been cases of people turning down HYS to attend their local school on a full ride, only to end up at/below median.

IMO, ambition is a huge part of success, and taking the full ride to a TTT rather than going to HYS shows a complete lack of ambition. Beyond that, once you're out of the trifecta, there's not that big a difference between, say, a T6 student and a T14 student, so taking the full ride to a T14 doesn't do the trick. Same can be said between bottom of the T14 and a T1 and between a T1 and a T2.
I can't say the same for TTT, because for the most part, those people are fools (evidenced by the fact they're attending a TTT), even if they are smarter than the average bear

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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby Scotusnerd » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:32 am

dingbat wrote:then you should do better, but it's not guaranteed, and there have been cases of people turning down HYS to attend their local school on a full ride, only to end up at/below median.

IMO, ambition is a huge part of success, and taking the full ride to a TTT rather than going to HYS shows a complete lack of ambition. Beyond that, once you're out of the trifecta, there's not that big a difference between, say, a T6 student and a T14 student, so taking the full ride to a T14 doesn't do the trick. Same can be said between bottom of the T14 and a T1 and between a T1 and a T2.
I can't say the same for TTT, because for the most part, those people are fools (evidenced by the fact they're attending a TTT), even if they are smarter than the average bear


Gonna have to disagree with you there, champ. I go to a supposed TTT (ranking-wise we're in the 100s). It is the most powerful school in my state, and has graduated 80% of the lawyers instate. We regularly have state supreme court justices come and lecture us, our faculty publishes on a national level, and we've had Scalia and Kennedy by in the past three years, along with the Army JAG general, and some other people. It is not a place for fools, and the competition is not easy.

Our job market is not based on grades, it is based on contacts. That does not change the fact that a lot of people work hard (I know several that sunk approximately 10-12 hours a day every day up until finals), and are pretty brilliant people. They also attend job fair stuff and make contacts.

Are some TTTs shitholes? Absolutely. One of our professors just came from one of the more infamous TTTs, and his teaching style clearly reflects that the people there were bloody idiots. But the reality is that some very intelligent people take TTT with money as a wiser investment. That does not mean they are stupid or lack ambition.

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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:06 am

Scotusnerd wrote:
dingbat wrote:then you should do better, but it's not guaranteed, and there have been cases of people turning down HYS to attend their local school on a full ride, only to end up at/below median.

IMO, ambition is a huge part of success, and taking the full ride to a TTT rather than going to HYS shows a complete lack of ambition. Beyond that, once you're out of the trifecta, there's not that big a difference between, say, a T6 student and a T14 student, so taking the full ride to a T14 doesn't do the trick. Same can be said between bottom of the T14 and a T1 and between a T1 and a T2.
I can't say the same for TTT, because for the most part, those people are fools (evidenced by the fact they're attending a TTT), even if they are smarter than the average bear


Gonna have to disagree with you there, champ. I go to a supposed TTT (ranking-wise we're in the 100s). It is the most powerful school in my state, and has graduated 80% of the lawyers instate. We regularly have state supreme court justices come and lecture us, our faculty publishes on a national level, and we've had Scalia and Kennedy by in the past three years, along with the Army JAG general, and some other people. It is not a place for fools, and the competition is not easy.

Our job market is not based on grades, it is based on contacts. That does not change the fact that a lot of people work hard (I know several that sunk approximately 10-12 hours a day every day up until finals), and are pretty brilliant people. They also attend job fair stuff and make contacts.

Are some TTTs shitholes? Absolutely. One of our professors just came from one of the more infamous TTTs, and his teaching style clearly reflects that the people there were bloody idiots. But the reality is that some very intelligent people take TTT with money as a wiser investment. That does not mean they are stupid or lack ambition.


Then why isn't your 75 percentile LSAT higher? Because your schools is filled with retards, and just because your in a shitty state that's tiny, backwater and also filled with retards doesn't change that.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby Scotusnerd » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:22 am

Desert Fox wrote:Then why isn't your 75 percentile LSAT higher? Because your schools is filled with retards, and just because your in a shitty state that's tiny, backwater and also filled with retards doesn't change that.


That is an excellent argument, fair sir. I am sure you have won many an internet argument with your brilliant wit and incredible grammar skills. You might want to work on that personality, though.

In all seriousness OP, go into the law because you love it, not because some test says you'll be good at it. And go to a place that you think you will succeed in and enjoy living in.

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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby 20130312 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:01 am

Correcting grammar? This must be you're first encounter with DF.

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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby dingbat » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:12 am

Scotusnerd wrote:Gonna have to disagree with you there, champ. I go to a supposed TTT (ranking-wise we're in the 100s). It is the most powerful school in my state, and has graduated 80% of the lawyers instate.
small state?
Scotusnerd wrote:We regularly have state supreme court justices come and lecture us, our faculty publishes on a national level, and we've had Scalia and Kennedy by in the past three years, along with the Army JAG general, and some other people. It is not a place for fools, and the competition is not easy.
Just because your school can pay for impressive people to come over, doesn't make it a good school
Scotusnerd wrote:Our job market is not based on grades, it is based on contacts.
that's the definition of a TTT
Scotusnerd wrote:That does not change the fact that a lot of people work hard (I know several that sunk approximately 10-12 hours a day every day up until finals), and are pretty brilliant people. They also attend job fair stuff and make contacts.
hard work doesn't mean they're smarter or dumber than anyone else
Scotusnerd wrote:Are some TTTs shitholes? Absolutely. One of our professors just came from one of the more infamous TTTs, and his teaching style clearly reflects that the people there were bloody idiots. But the reality is that some very intelligent people take TTT with money as a wiser investment. That does not mean they are stupid or lack ambition.
This is up for debate, but I'll concede for the sake of argument

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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:20 am

Scotusnerd wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Then why isn't your 75 percentile LSAT higher? Because your schools is filled with retards, and just because your in a shitty state that's tiny, backwater and also filled with retards doesn't change that.


That is an excellent argument, fair sir. I am sure you have won many an internet argument with your brilliant wit and incredible grammar skills. You might want to work on that personality, though.

In all seriousness OP, go into the law because you love it, not because some test says you'll be good at it. And go to a place that you think you will succeed in and enjoy living in.


Me: getting paid 170K per year for my grammar and wit.

U: gunning for shitlaw

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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby Blessedassurance » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:33 am

Scotusnerd wrote:Etc...


It's pointless to keep arguing. All this is going to turn into is an I'm-better-than-you-I-will-make-more-than-you-etc-etc crap.

That said, it's generally a terrible idea to go to a TTT for most people. There are going to be exceptions but people stick to the general advice because it makes little sense to gamble on being the exception. Especially when the prize of winning the gamble, is to be in a miserable profession with shitty people.

Also, try not to correct grammar on the internet if you can, unless absolutely necessary (which is rarely ever the case).

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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby NoodleyOne » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:54 am

Desert Fox wrote:
Scotusnerd wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Then why isn't your 75 percentile LSAT higher? Because your schools is filled with retards, and just because your in a shitty state that's tiny, backwater and also filled with retards doesn't change that.


That is an excellent argument, fair sir. I am sure you have won many an internet argument with your brilliant wit and incredible grammar skills. You might want to work on that personality, though.

In all seriousness OP, go into the law because you love it, not because some test says you'll be good at it. And go to a place that you think you will succeed in and enjoy living in.


Me: getting paid 170K per year for my grammar and wit.

U: gunning for shitlaw

OH SNAP

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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby Scotusnerd » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:00 am

I ain't here to get into an argument. I just wanted to point out that there's more than one way to skin the cat that is law school, and not all approaches work well for everyone. I figure I have a different perspective than the majority on this site, and it's worth knowing that TTTs aren't all bad.

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dingbat
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby dingbat » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:11 pm

Scotusnerd wrote:I ain't here to get into an argument. I just wanted to point out that there's more than one way to skin the cat that is law school, and not all approaches work well for everyone. I figure I have a different perspective than the majority on this site, and it's worth knowing that TTTs aren't all bad.

I actually agree with this. The better way to look at it is most TTTs are bad for most people. There are exceptions, but not many

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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby quiver » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:16 pm

To OP: no, there's no good way to predict law school success. I'm too lazy to find them, but there are numerous threads around here discussing this.

ETA: here are some:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=193579
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=191654

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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby jkpolk » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:36 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Scotusnerd wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Then why isn't your 75 percentile LSAT higher? Because your schools is filled with retards, and just because your in a shitty state that's tiny, backwater and also filled with retards doesn't change that.


That is an excellent argument, fair sir. I am sure you have won many an internet argument with your brilliant wit and incredible grammar skills. You might want to work on that personality, though.

In all seriousness OP, go into the law because you love it, not because some test says you'll be good at it. And go to a place that you think you will succeed in and enjoy living in.


Me: getting paid 170K per year for my grammar and wit.

U: gunning for shitlaw


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby ScottRiqui » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:55 pm

NoodleyOne wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Scotusnerd wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Then why isn't your 75 percentile LSAT higher? Because your schools is filled with retards, and just because your in a shitty state that's tiny, backwater and also filled with retards doesn't change that.


That is an excellent argument, fair sir. I am sure you have won many an internet argument with your brilliant wit and incredible grammar skills. You might want to work on that personality, though.

In all seriousness OP, go into the law because you love it, not because some test says you'll be good at it. And go to a place that you think you will succeed in and enjoy living in.


Me: getting paid 170K per year for my grammar and wit.

U: gunning for shitlaw

OH SNAP


Image

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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby Boggs » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:07 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Scotusnerd wrote:
dingbat wrote:then you should do better, but it's not guaranteed, and there have been cases of people turning down HYS to attend their local school on a full ride, only to end up at/below median.

IMO, ambition is a huge part of success, and taking the full ride to a TTT rather than going to HYS shows a complete lack of ambition. Beyond that, once you're out of the trifecta, there's not that big a difference between, say, a T6 student and a T14 student, so taking the full ride to a T14 doesn't do the trick. Same can be said between bottom of the T14 and a T1 and between a T1 and a T2.
I can't say the same for TTT, because for the most part, those people are fools (evidenced by the fact they're attending a TTT), even if they are smarter than the average bear


Gonna have to disagree with you there, champ. I go to a supposed TTT (ranking-wise we're in the 100s). It is the most powerful school in my state, and has graduated 80% of the lawyers instate. We regularly have state supreme court justices come and lecture us, our faculty publishes on a national level, and we've had Scalia and Kennedy by in the past three years, along with the Army JAG general, and some other people. It is not a place for fools, and the competition is not easy.

Our job market is not based on grades, it is based on contacts. That does not change the fact that a lot of people work hard (I know several that sunk approximately 10-12 hours a day every day up until finals), and are pretty brilliant people. They also attend job fair stuff and make contacts.

Are some TTTs shitholes? Absolutely. One of our professors just came from one of the more infamous TTTs, and his teaching style clearly reflects that the people there were bloody idiots. But the reality is that some very intelligent people take TTT with money as a wiser investment. That does not mean they are stupid or lack ambition.


Then why isn't your 75 percentile LSAT higher? Because your schools is filled with retards, and just because your in a shitty state that's tiny, backwater and also filled with retards doesn't change that.


ITT, DF proves to be an unpleasant person... and desperate to maintain internet supremacy. Dream big.

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20130312
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby 20130312 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:15 pm

Boggs wrote:ITT, DF proves to be an unpleasant person... and desperate to maintain internet supremacy. Dream big.

Sounds like he has IRL supremacy.

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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby Boggs » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:25 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
Boggs wrote:ITT, DF proves to be an unpleasant person... and desperate to maintain internet supremacy. Dream big.

Sounds like he has IRL supremacy.


Let's hope so. Otherwise, what a sad story.

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manofjustice
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby manofjustice » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:27 pm

If you go to a school with a median LSAT of 155 and your is 170, you'll do well. If you go to Harvard, not so much. Rocket science.

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20130312
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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby 20130312 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:29 pm

manofjustice wrote:If you go to a school with a median LSAT of 155 and your is 170, you'll do well. If you go to Harvard, not so much. Rocket science.

85% chance of above median, 35% chance of top 10%

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Re: Is There Any Way to Predict How Well I'd Do in LS?

Postby minnbills » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:30 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
Boggs wrote:ITT, DF proves to be an unpleasant person... and desperate to maintain internet supremacy. Dream big.

Sounds like he has IRL supremacy.


Let's see if he makes partner first. Hint, he's not going to.




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