is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

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sangr
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is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby sangr » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:08 pm

for those who dont make big law or who may not want big law

what is there? is it that there are no alternatives or is it that the alternatives are real shitty?

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AlanShore
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby AlanShore » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:13 pm

sangr wrote:for those who dont make big law or who may not want big law

what is there? is it that there are no alternatives or is it that the alternatives are real shitty?

There are alternatives.. it's just that they often don't pay as much (but some still pay very well) and can be equally hard to land.

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IAFG
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby IAFG » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:13 pm

It is difficult to pay off loans without biglaw because the two big categories of non-biglaw options are either low-paying private practice or (currently rare) LRAP-eligible jobs (for which you would be more qualified with some years of biglaw experience). Biglaw gets a lot of attention because it 1) allows you to pay off your loans 2) is relatively easy to get for people from top schools. Those factors can make trying to get something other than biglaw even more daunting.

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IAFG
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby IAFG » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:16 pm

AlanShore wrote:
sangr wrote:for those who dont make big law or who may not want big law

what is there? is it that there are no alternatives or is it that the alternatives are real shitty?

There are alternatives.. it's just that they often don't pay as much (but some still pay very well) and can be equally hard to land.

It's my impression as a 3L that, for a sizable portion of the TLS community, biglaw is the easiest thing to land. They come recruit you and then all but guarantee you a job at graduation before you even start 2L.

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AlanShore
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby AlanShore » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:58 pm

IAFG wrote:
AlanShore wrote:
sangr wrote:for those who dont make big law or who may not want big law

what is there? is it that there are no alternatives or is it that the alternatives are real shitty?

There are alternatives.. it's just that they often don't pay as much (but some still pay very well) and can be equally hard to land.

It's my impression as a 3L that, for a sizable portion of the TLS community, biglaw is the easiest thing to land. They come recruit you and then all but guarantee you a job at graduation before you even start 2L.

I agree.. a few friends attend good schools (t14) but are interested in public interest work. While they have found something, it seems to be an even more stressful experience because recruiting isn't as cut and dry (OCI).

sangr
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby sangr » Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:07 pm

can anyone elaborate on this?

we all know people always say "a law degree will also help you with anything else you do later in life"

how true is this really?
ive heard arguments for both sides
say for example,

if u try to do your own thing and be an entrepreneur

CanadianWolf
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:16 pm

It can actually harm your chances for some non-law positions because some employers may think that employees with law degrees are more likely to sue over disputes with the company.

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IAFG
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby IAFG » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:43 pm

sangr wrote:can anyone elaborate on this?

we all know people always say "a law degree will also help you with anything else you do later in life"

how true is this really?
ive heard arguments for both sides
say for example,

if u try to do your own thing and be an entrepreneur

Why are you asking?

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prezidentv8
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:06 pm

sangr wrote:is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?


sangr wrote:is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?


sangr wrote:is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?


sangr wrote:is

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bizzybone1313
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby bizzybone1313 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:21 pm

Is our children learning? -President George "Dubya" Bush

sangr
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby sangr » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:46 pm

the fact that u could not overlook that one S is more entertaining

so yea,

is there any real life applicability of a fresh JD (maybe assuming we do small business clinics, or whatever etc.)

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minnbills
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby minnbills » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:10 pm

sangr wrote:the fact that u could not overlook that one S is more entertaining

so yea,

is there any real life applicability of a fresh JD (maybe assuming we do small business clinics, or whatever etc.)


I know corps here in MN pick up JDs. I have no idea how it works, I suspect some prior business experience or an internship is in order, though.

sangr
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby sangr » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:56 pm

thanks for the reply,

reason im asking is because i just want to see what the options are, theres always a chance that one may not do as well as she likes:

what practices are not as a grade intensive as big law?

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BruceWayne
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby BruceWayne » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:15 pm

My personal take as a 3L.

1. The main non biglaw options are legal aid, state prosecution, DOJ Honors, other fed honors programs, and JAG.

2. The problem with essentially all of those options is budgetary. They simply don't have the finances to hire boatloads of freshly minted JD's. In the case of DOJ and the other fed honors programs they are also insanely grade selective. JAG has the additional issue of being military which has it's own unique hurdles.

3. Big law definitely isn't easy to get in any way shape or form for people from top schools unless you mean HYS. But biglaw is more designed for hiring fresh JDs and they don't have the budget issues. However, their obsession with grades more than makes up for their ability to hire. The only plus being that if you do fall within their high ranges you are very likely to get a biglaw job.

4. Almost all other legal employers (like corporations etc.) only hire experienced JDs so they are not an option for law students.

5. This is simply not the time to be in law school. I'm sorry but it's not.

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dextermorgan
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby dextermorgan » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:17 pm

sangr wrote:can anyone elaborate on this?

we all know people always say "a law degree will also help you with anything else you do later in life"

how true is this really?
ive heard arguments for both sides
say for example,

if u try to do your own thing and be an entrepreneur

This cannot be stressed enough: only go to law school if you want to be a lawyer.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby bizzybone1313 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:26 pm

BruceWayne, so what do you suggest someone do if they want to be an attorney real bad? I understand right now isn't the best time to go to law school, but we 0l's cannot put our lives on hold because of a bad economy. Right?

sangr
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby sangr » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:38 pm

what about small local firms? that may do anything from immigration, small business, family law, etc.

do they not hire fresh grads?

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IAFG
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby IAFG » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:40 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:BruceWayne, so what do you suggest someone do if they want to be an attorney real bad? I understand right now isn't the best time to go to law school, but we 0l's cannot put our lives on hold because of a bad economy. Right?

Most people who claim this don't know what the fuck being a lawyer means.

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dextermorgan
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby dextermorgan » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:42 pm

sangr wrote:what about small local firms? that may do anything from immigration, small business, family law, etc.

do they not hire fresh grads?

The problem is that law school doesn't teach you shit, and a lot of these smaller firms don't have the time/ability to train someone new. Also, those type of jobs are almost exclusively about who you know, and most law students are unwilling to network.

I'm sure Bruce will have a better answer.

sangr
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby sangr » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:27 am

BruceWayne wrote:My personal take as a 3L.

1. The main non biglaw options are legal aid, state prosecution, DOJ Honors, other fed honors programs, and JAG.

2. The problem with essentially all of those options is budgetary. They simply don't have the finances to hire boatloads of freshly minted JD's. In the case of DOJ and the other fed honors programs they are also insanely grade selective. JAG has the additional issue of being military which has it's own unique hurdles.

3. Big law definitely isn't easy to get in any way shape or form for people from top schools unless you mean HYS. But biglaw is more designed for hiring fresh JDs and they don't have the budget issues. However, their obsession with grades more than makes up for their ability to hire. The only plus being that if you do fall within their high ranges you are very likely to get a biglaw job.

4. Almost all other legal employers (like corporations etc.) only hire experienced JDs so they are not an option for law students.

5. This is simply not the time to be in law school. I'm sorry but it's not.


thanks to the gentleman above,

i understand that its not a good time to be an attorney if u strike out w/ big law.

but we do have to mitigate dmgs, so what would u suggest someone do (other than trying to get good grades)
to get employment of her choice (outside of big law)

i ask this to anyone...i mean there has to be SOME area where externships, internships, summers have an effect on employment?

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BruceWayne
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby BruceWayne » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:28 am

Network with any and everyone. Take internships/externships to get experience. But to be totally honest plenty of people do these things and still end up with nothing. The reality is that if you don't land high grades you need to understand that things begin to look very bleak.

SHANbangs
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby SHANbangs » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:35 am

The logic of "only go to law school if you want to be a lawyer" escapes me. ITT, even if you went to law school with the sole intent of being a lawyer (you "love the law"), that won't matter if YOU CAN'T GET A JOB AS A LAWYER PERIOD.

igo2northwestern
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby igo2northwestern » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:12 am

There are real alternatives to big law. And it's not the case that only those who have biglaw opportunities could land a job in these fields:

Accounting/tax: Big 4 firms will look at you, provided that you've taken finance/accounting/tax courses. Starting salary isn't that good (60-70k), but hours are pretty decent.

Consulting firms, which are very selective, also look for JD students. The interview process is dramatically more difficult than what you're used to, and most MBA students practice case interviews for months before the real thing. Salary is a bit less than biglaw, you usually travel a great deal, and you might work slightly fewer hours.

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tfer2222
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby tfer2222 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:50 am

prezidentv8 wrote:
sangr wrote:is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?


sangr wrote:is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?


sangr wrote:is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?


sangr wrote:is


lol I clicked on this post solely to see if someone had already pointed this out.

sangr
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Re: is there seriously no real alternatives to big law?

Postby sangr » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:02 am

thanks again to the input

1) how much do grades matter if u fuck up 1st year (not good enough for big law). so how much do ur 2nd and 3rd yrs matter

2) is law school anything like undergrad in that if u get mediocre grades semester but do well 2nd, the upward trend allows u to be forgiven a bit




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