Declaring Ethnicity on the Law School Applications

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SumStalwart
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Declaring Ethnicity on the Law School Applications

Postby SumStalwart » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:51 am

Hey guys,

I am an American Born Chinese (ABC) person--well, half, actually. It seems like, if you are not an under represented minority, ethnicity doesn't seem to really benefit you. Moreover, the statistics seem to show that female ethnic minorities seem to be more likely to be accepted into the top law schools (T14) than the male applicants. Should I just not report my ethnic background? That means avoid discussing it in my PS and in all of the other potential areas.

I would really appreciate your opinions on this matter!

Thanks!

Edit: Because I can.
Edit 2: Just to clarify a point.
Last edited by SumStalwart on Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

rad lulz
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Re: Declaring Ethnicity on the Law School Applications

Postby rad lulz » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:53 am

Similar heritage. Put it on the apps. No one gave a crap either way.

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SumStalwart
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Re: Declaring Ethnicity on the Law School Applications

Postby SumStalwart » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:56 am

rad lulz wrote:Similar heritage. Put it on the apps. No one gave a crap either way.


What were your stats, if you don't mind me asking? Where were you accepted?

I am just concerned because it seems like there is a profound tilt towards ethnic women, rather than the men-- I want to have as much of an advantage as possible.

Thanks for your opinion ^^

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2014
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Re: Declaring Ethnicity on the Law School Applications

Postby 2014 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:06 pm

If at worst it doesn't hurt you, the cost to you is just the time spent writing the DS. Why wouldn't you include it?

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SumStalwart
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Re: Declaring Ethnicity on the Law School Applications

Postby SumStalwart » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:26 pm

2014 wrote:If at worst it doesn't hurt you, the cost to you is just the time spent writing the DS. Why wouldn't you include it?


That's a valid question. I am concerned that it will decrease my chance of being accepted. Furthermore, I have read a few different studies that show that asians are put on a different scale-- so that they are competing against each other. Not meaning to embrace the stereotype, but I don't really want to have an uphill battle. While my GPA isn't bad, it's not exceptional and most likely far lower than many of the other asians that are applying during this cycle.

Does anyone know whether or not releasing the diversity information would contribute more in my favor than acting as a detriment?

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hume85
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Re: Declaring Ethnicity on the Law School Applications

Postby hume85 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:37 pm

.
Last edited by hume85 on Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: Declaring Ethnicity on the Law School Applications

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:44 pm

hume85 wrote:I have a similar question: does being part Spanish qualify for Hispanic/Latino. On Penn's application they include Spanish in Hispanic/Latino. And does this qualify one as an URM?


You won't be deemed a URM.

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SumStalwart
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Re: Declaring Ethnicity on the Law School Applications

Postby SumStalwart » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:32 pm

Do you guys know if the ethnic diversity bump is enough to offset the asian (Chinese) stigma?

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bk1
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Re: Declaring Ethnicity on the Law School Applications

Postby bk1 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:58 pm

unc0mm0n1 wrote:
hume85 wrote:I have a similar question: does being part Spanish qualify for Hispanic/Latino. On Penn's application they include Spanish in Hispanic/Latino. And does this qualify one as an URM?


You won't be deemed a URM.


This. If you use the terms' technical definitions you are Hispanic but you aren't Latino. But people don't tend to use those terms with their actual definition.

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NYC2012
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Re: Declaring Ethnicity on the Law School Applications

Postby NYC2012 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:03 pm

I read somewhere, probably on TLS, that if you do not disclose your race, you'll just be counted as white/Asian/have no advantage over anyone else.

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SumStalwart
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Re: Declaring Ethnicity on the Law School Applications

Postby SumStalwart » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:01 am

NYC2012 wrote:I read somewhere, probably on TLS, that if you do not disclose your race, you'll just be counted as white/Asian/have no advantage over anyone else.


So.. essentially, that means that, if I disclose, I could be subjected to the asian stigma. However, if I do not disclose, I would be counted as white/have no ethnic advantage. I guess that I'm just not going to disclose (probably, stand a better chance if I am considered as fully white xD).

Does anyone else want to weigh in on this? It's useful to see everyone's interpretation of this-- it's a pretty sensitive subject.

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Chickensoup
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Re: Declaring Ethnicity on the Law School Applications

Postby Chickensoup » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:10 am

SumStalwart wrote:
NYC2012 wrote:I read somewhere, probably on TLS, that if you do not disclose your race, you'll just be counted as white/Asian/have no advantage over anyone else.


So.. essentially, that means that, if I disclose, I could be subjected to the asian stigma. However, if I do not disclose, I would be counted as white/have no ethnic advantage. I guess that I'm just not going to disclose (probably, stand a better chance if I am considered as fully white xD).

Does anyone else want to weigh in on this? It's useful to see everyone's interpretation of this-- it's a pretty sensitive subject.


The "Asian stigma" is not official policy. If it is being done, it is being done illicitly and will likely be done no matter what. That being said, law schools are looking to fill seats this year without destroying their medians. Quite simply, an Asian quota would be bad business.


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SumStalwart
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Re: Declaring Ethnicity on the Law School Applications

Postby SumStalwart » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:29 am

I understand that you guys may think that this thread is a flame, or that I am simply being naive. However, I came up with this impression from looking at the numbers.

Here are several examples from LSAC (you might have to sign in, before viewing the source). Here is a quick link, just to be helpful: https://officialguide.lsac.org/Release/SchoolsABAData/SchoolPage/SchoolPage_Info/ABA_LawSchoolData.aspx

Columbia University:
Image

GULC:
Image

Harvard:
Image

NYU:
Image

Stanford:
Image

If law schools were simply looking at the numbers, there would be more parity between White/Caucasians and the asians (maybe, other minorities, as well). Granted, the White/Caucasian category includes white-hispanic applicants, but even if that category were to be divided equally there is still a clear distinction. Furthermore, even if we consider that less asians than caucasians are applying to law school, the asian category should STILL be larger than it is currently. I mean, we ARE looking primarily at numbers, right? And ethnic background that adds diversity can only advantage the applicant, right? If that's the case, then there should still be a larger amount of asians who are accepted, considering that research has shown that there is general parity between the scores of both asians and their caucasian counterparts.

The point that I am trying to get to is that it really doesn't seem like listing that I am asian on the applications would confer any sort of advantage. Asian ethnic diversity doesn't seem to add any advantage to the applicant-- and seems detrimental.

Do you guys have any insight on this matter? Am I simply jumping to conclusions? Are the bulk of the scores of asian candidates inferior (i.e. even though the averages are the same, caucasians have a larger standard deviation, with respect to both the LSAT and GPA-- more high and low scorers)?

Sorry, if I am coming off as combative. It's not my intention. I am just trying to get a clear understanding for what the playing field looks like.

Edit: I cannot format links/anything properly.

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bk1
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Re: Declaring Ethnicity on the Law School Applications

Postby bk1 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:44 am

SumStalwart wrote:The point that I am trying to get to is that it really doesn't seem like listing that I am asian on the applications would confer any sort of advantage. Asian ethnic diversity doesn't seem to add any advantage to the applicant-- and seems detrimental.


Nobody is saying it confers an advantage. Asian applicants and students on this site will tell you it's not detrimental for law school admissions.

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SumStalwart
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Re: Declaring Ethnicity on the Law School Applications

Postby SumStalwart » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:45 pm

Thanks, bk1, for the reply.

Can anyone else offer further insight on the subsequent questions that were asked?

Much appreciated.




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