Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

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John Mill
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Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby John Mill » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:16 pm

So I'm 22 and currently in my first year of undergrad. I would up dropping out of high school in my senior year due to a personal tragedy, then getting my GED a few years later. I took four years off before starting college to work and save up a bit of money. Although before anybody says it my WE wont count for much, I just cooked and waited tables at my family's restaurant, nothing that will impress anybody at admissions.

So my goal, like so many others here, is a T14 school and eventually big law. I'm going to be starting law school at age 26-27 and graduating at 29-30. I was just wondering if anybody could tell me how much age really matters in big law, and where the cutoff point really is? Will my age wind up hurting me at all? I searched for this question online and got a lot of differing answers, and none of them all that satisfying.

Also I'm currently going to Westfield State, which is basically a random state college nobody has ever heard of outside western MA. At the moment I'm pretty happy here because its a 45 minute drive from my house, so I can live at home and save money while I'm going to school. Does my UG school make a difference if applying to the T14? Particularly if the upper T14 is my goal then should I be trying to transfer to a more prestigious UG or am I safe where I am now?

Thank you for taking the time to read my questions, and any insight I can get is much appreciated!

Swimp
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby Swimp » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:25 pm

I'll be 27 when I matriculate, so I've done a little reading on this subject and from what I've seen, age can be a factor in employment, but not really at my age (or the age you'll be). Some employers apparently like hiring more experienced employees. That you worked at a restaurant isn't that important. It's just that you know what it's like to work a job full time.

As for the name of your school, I guess a more recognizable name would be better in some really insignificant sense, but its mostly your GPA that matters. Any time you spend worrying about transferring would likely be better spent ensuring you get the best grades you can. Or having fun. Nobody likes a burnout.

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kalvano
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby kalvano » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:43 pm

Neither your age nor your undergraduate school will matter.

/ end thread, except it won't.

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John Mill
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby John Mill » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:52 pm

Alright that's good to know. Puts at least one big regret of not going back to school earlier at ease.

@Kalvano Love your icon btw. Im still hoping to see Vic's actor on Sons of Anarchy eventually

Total Litigator
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby Total Litigator » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:30 pm

Yes, when we are talking T14 employers, your undergrad will make at least some difference come OCI, and yes, even at admissions. I think the most ridiculous TLS myth is that it doesn't make any difference.

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Ruxin1
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby Ruxin1 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:35 pm

Total Litigator wrote:Yes, when we are talking T14 employers, your undergrad will make at least some difference come OCI, and yes, even at admissions. I think the most ridiculous TLS myth is that it doesn't make any difference.


T14 employers lol

jarofsoup
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby jarofsoup » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:49 pm

After going through OCI I do think that undergraduate matters...Some schools have very strong alumni networks, some schools lend prestige....the market is very competitive. EVERYTHING MATTERS...but for law school admissions I do not believe they really care.

Kurst
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby Kurst » Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:03 am

John Mill wrote:I'm currently going to Westfield State, which is basically a random state college nobody has ever heard of outside western MA. Does my UG school make a difference if applying to the T14? Particularly if the upper T14 is my goal then should I be trying to transfer to a more prestigious UG or am I safe where I am now?
Kurst wrote:Does your undergrad school matter? Can it help an applicant?
Does your undergraduate institution matter?
Importance of undergrade prestige for T14?
3.0 from Dartmouth versus 3.0 from state school
Non-elite UG: a T-6 killer?
Any T14 students here started at community college for UG?
Do T14's look down on community colleges?
It doesn't matter where you went for UG!
What Undergraduate School should I pick to help my LS Admiss
Should I Transfer Undergraduate Schools?
High numbers, low undergrad prestigue
Does the undergraduate school matter?
Undergraduate Advice
How much does your undergraduate Institution Matter?
How important is undergrad prestige?
Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?
Does Undergraduate School Matter?
to what degree does undergraduate institution matter at HYS?
does undergrad matter at all?
Do law schools really care what school you attended for UG?
How much does UG matter?
College Freshman looking at Law School
178 LSAT, 3.93 GPA - Does UG really matter?
Importance of Undergrad Institution
Unknown Undergraduate Institution
Weight of UG institution in LS+ Big Law
UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype
Will undergrad prestige matter?
Does undergraduate school matter?
Does where you went Undergraduate matter?
does your undergrad university prestige matter?
How much does undergrad school matter?
Does your undergraduate school matter?
Does Undergraduate School Matter?
Does the Undergrad School you graduate from matter?
Does school matter?
Undergrad Prestige
snob appeal of your undergraduate institution
Question about GPA major and school prestige
Is UG prestige a factor in the admission process?
OS Updates: Yes, Virginia, Undergraduate Schools Matter.
How much does where you went to undergrad matter?
Why does quality of undergrad matter so little?
How much does where you did undergrad matter?
How much does what undergrad school you attend matter?
Undergrad doesn't matter! (unless it's a good one)
Does undergrad matter
Quality of undergrad institution does matter!
Does undergrad matter?
Undergrad doesnt matter? WSJ disagrees.
Name of Undergrad School Matter in Applying?
How much weight is given to your undergrad college?
Importance of Undergraduate University??
Does it matter where you do your UG studies for T14 schools?
Does quality of undergrad make a significant difference?
Does UG Really Not Matter?
How much does where you went for UG factor in?

Total Litigator
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby Total Litigator » Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:11 am

Ruxin1 wrote:
Total Litigator wrote:Yes, when we are talking T14 employers, your undergrad will make at least some difference come OCI, and yes, even at admissions. I think the most ridiculous TLS myth is that it doesn't make any difference.


T14 employers lol


Employers who recruit at T14 OCI's.... I would also qualify my earlier statement that it also matters at any sort of law school, insofar as going to an undergrad with ties to the law school region will help you establish those all important ties to secondary markets that employers look for (but that is not relevant to the issue of undergrad 'rank').

And yeah, it matters a whole lot less at the admissions level, but it would unwise to completely discount it...

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John Mill
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby John Mill » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:11 am

Kurst wrote:
John Mill wrote:I'm currently going to Westfield State, which is basically a random state college nobody has ever heard of outside western MA. Does my UG school make a difference if applying to the T14? Particularly if the upper T14 is my goal then should I be trying to transfer to a more prestigious UG or am I safe where I am now?
Kurst wrote:Does your undergrad school matter? Can it help an applicant?
Does your undergraduate institution matter?
Importance of undergrade prestige for T14?
3.0 from Dartmouth versus 3.0 from state school
Non-elite UG: a T-6 killer?
Any T14 students here started at community college for UG?
Do T14's look down on community colleges?
It doesn't matter where you went for UG!
What Undergraduate School should I pick to help my LS Admiss
Should I Transfer Undergraduate Schools?
High numbers, low undergrad prestigue
Does the undergraduate school matter?
Undergraduate Advice
How much does your undergraduate Institution Matter?
How important is undergrad prestige?
Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?
Does Undergraduate School Matter?
to what degree does undergraduate institution matter at HYS?
does undergrad matter at all?
Do law schools really care what school you attended for UG?
How much does UG matter?
College Freshman looking at Law School
178 LSAT, 3.93 GPA - Does UG really matter?
Importance of Undergrad Institution
Unknown Undergraduate Institution
Weight of UG institution in LS+ Big Law
UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype
Will undergrad prestige matter?
Does undergraduate school matter?
Does where you went Undergraduate matter?
does your undergrad university prestige matter?
How much does undergrad school matter?
Does your undergraduate school matter?
Does Undergraduate School Matter?
Does the Undergrad School you graduate from matter?
Does school matter?
Undergrad Prestige
snob appeal of your undergraduate institution
Question about GPA major and school prestige
Is UG prestige a factor in the admission process?
OS Updates: Yes, Virginia, Undergraduate Schools Matter.
How much does where you went to undergrad matter?
Why does quality of undergrad matter so little?
How much does where you did undergrad matter?
How much does what undergrad school you attend matter?
Undergrad doesn't matter! (unless it's a good one)
Does undergrad matter
Quality of undergrad institution does matter!
Does undergrad matter?
Undergrad doesnt matter? WSJ disagrees.
Name of Undergrad School Matter in Applying?
How much weight is given to your undergrad college?
Importance of Undergraduate University??
Does it matter where you do your UG studies for T14 schools?
Does quality of undergrad make a significant difference?
Does UG Really Not Matter?
How much does where you went for UG factor in?


I believe I said in the OP that I already did a search. All of those have people giving multiple answers, just like in this thread, and I haven't been lurking long enough to know who's opinion is credible and who's isn't :/

EDIT: Particularly I'm concerned about Columbia. People seem to think that they do care about you'r UG, and thats one of my dream schools, so I'm still not sure if I should think about a transfer or not.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby Tom Joad » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:29 am

Seems like the higher up a school is ranked, the greater the percentage of students that come from good undergrads. Obviously a lot of it is just because lots of smart people go to good undergrads. But T14 schools have lots of students from bad undergrads too. I think a person's undergrad really only helps at the very margins (ie to distinguish between people with the same LSAT/GPA). I certainly wouldn't take on any additional debt to go to a different school if it was solely to help your law school admissions.

aroquentin
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby aroquentin » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:31 am

John Mill wrote:
Kurst wrote:
John Mill wrote:I'm currently going to Westfield State, which is basically a random state college nobody has ever heard of outside western MA. Does my UG school make a difference if applying to the T14? Particularly if the upper T14 is my goal then should I be trying to transfer to a more prestigious UG or am I safe where I am now?


I believe I said in the OP that I already did a search. All of those have people giving multiple answers, just like in this thread, and I haven't been lurking long enough to know who's opinion is credible and who's isn't :/

Doesn't want your Socratic elenchus bullshit. Just tell Thrasymachus the answers so he'll have his T14.

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John Mill
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby John Mill » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:42 am

The most general answer seems to be that if it does make a difference its only a small one to distinguish between people on the border. So I guess it would only really effect me much in reach schools. Thank you everybody for your help.

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IAFG
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby IAFG » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:02 am

Total Litigator wrote:Yes, when we are talking T14 employers, your undergrad will make at least some difference come OCI, and yes, even at admissions. I think the most ridiculous TLS myth is that it doesn't make any difference.

When we're talking admissions, people have been saying for the past 5-6 years that I have been lurking on TLS that it makes a difference, and no one has been able to substantiate it. If you go look at the "unlikely" green triangles on LSN for Columbia (OP's school of interest) for last cycle, they're URMs.

If we're talking about employment, UG being helpful is widely conceded.

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John Mill
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby John Mill » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:20 am

IAFG wrote:If we're talking about employment, UG being helpful is widely conceded.


Wait I'm kind of confused what you mean by that. Do you mean that the stance that UG is helpful is conceded, or that people concede that UG is in fact helpful?

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Br3v
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby Br3v » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:25 am

Can you transfer to Harvard Yale or Princeton? Ok then transferring would have no effect and be a waste of money.

aroquentin
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby aroquentin » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:25 am

John Mill wrote:
IAFG wrote:If we're talking about employment, UG being helpful is widely conceded.


Wait I'm kind of confused what you mean by that. Do you mean that the stance that UG is helpful is conceded, or that people concede that UG is in fact helpful?

What's your LSAT score? Sounds tautologous.

Swimp
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby Swimp » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:49 pm

John Mill wrote:
IAFG wrote:If we're talking about employment, UG being helpful is widely conceded.


Wait I'm kind of confused what you mean by that. Do you mean that the stance that UG is helpful is conceited, or that people concede that UG is in fact helpful?


ftfy

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John Mill
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby John Mill » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:17 pm

Swimp wrote:
John Mill wrote:
IAFG wrote:If we're talking about employment, UG being helpful is widely conceded.


Wait I'm kind of confused what you mean by that. Do you mean that the stance that UG is helpful is conceited, or that people concede that UG is in fact helpful?


ftfy


Hahaha

aroquentin
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby aroquentin » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:54 am

Swimp wrote:
John Mill wrote:
IAFG wrote:If we're talking about employment, UG being helpful is widely conceded.


Wait I'm kind of confused what you mean by that. Do you mean that the stance that UG is helpful is conceited, or that people concede that UG is in fact helpful?


ftfy

Thanks. I had to assure myself I wasn't dealing with a paradox for a minute before I could respond.

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John Mill
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby John Mill » Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:03 am

@aroquentin

Did somebody leave you alone with your mothers thesaurus or something?

mr.hands
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby mr.hands » Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:20 am

John Mill wrote:@aroquentin

Did somebody leave you alone with your mothers thesaurus or something?


Lol +1

cubswin
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby cubswin » Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:24 am

John Mill wrote:
IAFG wrote:If we're talking about employment, UG being helpful is widely conceded.


Wait I'm kind of confused what you mean by that. Do you mean that the stance that UG is helpful is conceded, or that people concede that UG is in fact helpful?


You're over-thinking this man. When it comes to legal hiring, your grades get you considered and then a bunch of other factors come into play. No one is going to give you a job simply because you went to Princeton, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think it makes some interviewers think you're a more appealing candidate. That said, a non-elite UG isn't going to hurt you most of the time. It all depends on how snobby your interviewer is about UGs. You'll interview with people from all different levels of UGs and law schools at OCI. The Princeton BA Yale JD might sneer at you a bit more, but I interviewed with people at very respectable firms who were from kind of crappy law schools.

aroquentin
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby aroquentin » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:29 pm

mr.hands wrote:
John Mill wrote:@aroquentin

Did somebody leave you alone with your mothers thesaurus or something?


Lol +1

Because I thought it was a tautology? No, but I was left alone with my mother's logic book, which states:
Tautology (Taut):
p :: (p · p)
p :: (p v p)
Your disjunction would take the second form. Sorry, I thought people headed to law school do this sort of thing. I was out of line and I apologize.

ksllaw
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Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?

Postby ksllaw » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:10 pm

Hi.

What would you guys consider a good UG? Top 25? Top 50? Top 75?

Would U Wisc-Madison be good enough to matter in a postiive way? Or bad enough to either hurt or not matter?

(ETA: Not that it would matter much, but I spent summer school at Stanford one year...can't really list that I'm guessing.)




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