Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

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RickyDnwhyc
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Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby RickyDnwhyc » Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:44 pm

Let's assume you are planning on attending a T30 school. Fordham, Emory, BC, etc.

How important would grades be for being hired at a top BigLaw firm within your school's surrounding market? (Personally I'm looking to go to Fordham, and work in NYC, unless I rock the LSAT and go with T14)

I've always been a procrastinator. I hand in assignments last minute. I study for final exams the night before, sometimes the morning of. I've always been able to get by with decent grades. I know this will effective neuter my chances of being in the top 10-20% of any reputable Law School. I might still be able to make top 50(as cocky as that may sound?). Obviously I will adjust these habits to the best of my ability if I actually make it to Law School.

How much weight do the top firms put on grades during the hiring process/associateship process?
Is it 80% of their decision? 99%? 50%? Varies by firm? What else do they take into heavy consideration? Work experience? Personality? Social skills? Height? Weight? Nose trajectory?

I basically want a breakdown of the hiring process/criteria. I'm sure there are other threads about this, please direct me to them if possible.

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Ludo!
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby Ludo! » Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:47 pm

Change your habits before you get to law school. I procrastinated my way through undergrad too, but law school is a different animal. You can't just study the night before. Get your shit together or don't go.

From that kind of school you need to be in the top 10% to have a shot at BigLaw unless your dad is a client or something.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby NoodleyOne » Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:48 pm

Seriously?

The answer is really fucking important. Do your work.

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sunynp
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby sunynp » Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:54 pm

Let's put it this way- grades could be considered 100% to even get to talk to anyone at a big law firm. If you dont meet the cut-off then the firm will consider interviewing you or, if they do screen you, call you back.

After you meet that threshold, you have other criteria in the mix. Note too that several people on this forum have reported not getting permanent offers because of their grades drooping during 2L, even after they've worked at a firm for a whole summer. While there may be other factors involved, firms care about your grades more than anything. Very few people have the connections to get them in the door for an interview if they don't have the grades.

Top 50% at Fordham will never see big law.

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EvilClinton
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby EvilClinton » Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:58 pm

At a school like Fordham, grades are 95% of their decision.

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chem
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby chem » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:10 pm

Not important at all :roll:

RickyDnwhyc
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby RickyDnwhyc » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:13 pm

Yeah you're all probably right. No argument here.

What about T14? Top 50%? Even nowadays? I'd assume it's closer to top 25% ITE.

So grades are basically everything then? I find that so obtuse.

Do grades really indicate that much about how well someone would actually be at practicing the law?
They're passing up on so many potentially great candidates because of some arbitrary GPA cutoff?

I'd still like some insight into the other factors they consider, I'm sure there's a BigLaw lawyer out there somewhere that had subpar grades... I'm not saying I'm going to try to be the exception to the rule, I'm just curious...

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20130312
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby 20130312 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:14 pm

At the bottom of the screen, there's this nifty gadget called "Search".

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby bernaldiaz » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:19 pm

RickyDnwhyc wrote:Yeah you're all probably right. No argument here.

What about T14? Top 50%? Even nowadays? I'd assume it's closer to top 25% ITE.

So grades are basically everything then? I find that so obtuse.

Do grades really indicate that much about how well someone would actually be at practicing the law?
They're passing up on so many potentially great candidates because of some arbitrary GPA cutoff?

I'd still like some insight into the other factors they consider, I'm sure there's a BigLaw lawyer out there somewhere that had subpar grades... I'm not saying I'm going to try to be the exception to the rule, I'm just curious...


Whaaa? Don't use words you don't know, bro.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby shredderrrrrr » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:21 pm

RickyDnwhyc wrote:Yeah you're all probably right. No argument here.

What about T14? Top 50%? Even nowadays? I'd assume it's closer to top 25% ITE.

So grades are basically everything then? I find that so obtuse.

Do grades really indicate that much about how well someone would actually be at practicing the law?
They're passing up on so many potentially great candidates because of some arbitrary GPA cutoff?

I'd still like some insight into the other factors they consider, I'm sure there's a BigLaw lawyer out there somewhere that had subpar grades... I'm not saying I'm going to try to be the exception to the rule, I'm just curious...


Lol everyone has said that grades are virtually the only thing that matters...why even worry about what difference the other factors make?

And while not a perfect indication, grades are a pretty good indicator of lots of things I'm sure firms are looking for. Grades aren't just some arbitrary number. They are correlated with things like intelligence and work ethic.

Also, firms have so many candidates these days that why wouldn't they cut off everyone below a certain mark? I think of it like this: Let's say you have unlimited money to spend a night in NYC. You can select any hotel you really want. Would you even bother looking at 2 star hotels, even though there might be some great gems? No. You would only look at the top-of-the-line hotels and select from there.

RickyDnwhyc
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby RickyDnwhyc » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:22 pm

bernaldiaz wrote:
RickyDnwhyc wrote:Yeah you're all probably right. No argument here.

What about T14? Top 50%? Even nowadays? I'd assume it's closer to top 25% ITE.

So grades are basically everything then? I find that so obtuse.

Do grades really indicate that much about how well someone would actually be at practicing the law?
They're passing up on so many potentially great candidates because of some arbitrary GPA cutoff?

I'd still like some insight into the other factors they consider, I'm sure there's a BigLaw lawyer out there somewhere that had subpar grades... I'm not saying I'm going to try to be the exception to the rule, I'm just curious...


Whaaa? Don't use words you don't know, bro.


It's synonymous with stupid, dense, confusing. U mad?

RickyDnwhyc
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby RickyDnwhyc » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:22 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:At the bottom of the screen, there's this nifty gadget called "Search".


Lazy, and never been good at using the search function. I love Suits though!

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kalvano
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby kalvano » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:24 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:At the bottom of the screen, there's this nifty gadget called "Search".



To be fair, this question is so insanely stupid it may never have been asked before on TLS.

RickyDnwhyc
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby RickyDnwhyc » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:25 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:
RickyDnwhyc wrote:Yeah you're all probably right. No argument here.

What about T14? Top 50%? Even nowadays? I'd assume it's closer to top 25% ITE.

So grades are basically everything then? I find that so obtuse.

Do grades really indicate that much about how well someone would actually be at practicing the law?
They're passing up on so many potentially great candidates because of some arbitrary GPA cutoff?

I'd still like some insight into the other factors they consider, I'm sure there's a BigLaw lawyer out there somewhere that had subpar grades... I'm not saying I'm going to try to be the exception to the rule, I'm just curious...


Lol everyone has said that grades are virtually the only thing that matters...why even worry about what difference the other factors make?

And while not a perfect indication, grades are a pretty good indicator of lots of things I'm sure firms are looking for. Grades aren't just some arbitrary number. They are correlated with things like intelligence and work ethic.

Also, firms have so many candidates these days that why wouldn't they cut off everyone below a certain mark? I think of it like this: Let's say you have unlimited money to spend a night in NYC. You can select any hotel you really want. Would you even bother looking at 2 star hotels, even though there might be some great gems? No. You would only look at the top-of-the-line hotels and select from there.



Yeah I understand the logic. It seems my only option is Yale, where they don't give grades =x

I guess my real question was, what do they look for in interviews? Once you've already passed the GPA cutoff...

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kwais
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby kwais » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:26 pm

RickyDnwhyc wrote:Yeah you're all probably right. No argument here.

What about T14? Top 50%? Even nowadays? I'd assume it's closer to top 25% ITE.

So grades are basically everything then? I find that so obtuse.

Do grades really indicate that much about how well someone would actually be at practicing the law?
They're passing up on so many potentially great candidates because of some arbitrary GPA cutoff?

I'd still like some insight into the other factors they consider, I'm sure there's a BigLaw lawyer out there somewhere that had subpar grades... I'm not saying I'm going to try to be the exception to the rule, I'm just curious...


of course there are exceptions. they are meaningless. And what else would a firm use? your unsubstantiated promise to work real hard? People with high grades often fall into one or both of the following categories: naturally smart, or willing to work hard to figure out what is expected of them followed by executing. Both are valuable to a firm.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby bernaldiaz » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:26 pm

RickyDnwhyc wrote:
bernaldiaz wrote:
RickyDnwhyc wrote:Yeah you're all probably right. No argument here.

What about T14? Top 50%? Even nowadays? I'd assume it's closer to top 25% ITE.

So grades are basically everything then? I find that so obtuse.

Do grades really indicate that much about how well someone would actually be at practicing the law?
They're passing up on so many potentially great candidates because of some arbitrary GPA cutoff?

I'd still like some insight into the other factors they consider, I'm sure there's a BigLaw lawyer out there somewhere that had subpar grades... I'm not saying I'm going to try to be the exception to the rule, I'm just curious...


Whaaa? Don't use words you don't know, bro.


It's synonymous with stupid, dense, confusing. U mad?


No, it's not.

From the OED

obtuse, adj. : Annoyingly unperceptive or slow to understand

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Ludo!
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby Ludo! » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:30 pm

RickyDnwhyc wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:
RickyDnwhyc wrote:Yeah you're all probably right. No argument here.

What about T14? Top 50%? Even nowadays? I'd assume it's closer to top 25% ITE.

So grades are basically everything then? I find that so obtuse.

Do grades really indicate that much about how well someone would actually be at practicing the law?
They're passing up on so many potentially great candidates because of some arbitrary GPA cutoff?

I'd still like some insight into the other factors they consider, I'm sure there's a BigLaw lawyer out there somewhere that had subpar grades... I'm not saying I'm going to try to be the exception to the rule, I'm just curious...


Lol everyone has said that grades are virtually the only thing that matters...why even worry about what difference the other factors make?

And while not a perfect indication, grades are a pretty good indicator of lots of things I'm sure firms are looking for. Grades aren't just some arbitrary number. They are correlated with things like intelligence and work ethic.

Also, firms have so many candidates these days that why wouldn't they cut off everyone below a certain mark? I think of it like this: Let's say you have unlimited money to spend a night in NYC. You can select any hotel you really want. Would you even bother looking at 2 star hotels, even though there might be some great gems? No. You would only look at the top-of-the-line hotels and select from there.



Yeah I understand the logic. It seems my only option is Yale, where they don't give grades =x

I guess my real question was, what do they look for in interviews? Once you've already passed the GPA cutoff...


Cross that bridge if you get to it

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20130312
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby 20130312 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:31 pm

bernaldiaz wrote:
RickyDnwhyc wrote:
bernaldiaz wrote:Whaaa? Don't use words you don't know, bro.


It's synonymous with stupid, dense, confusing. U mad?


No, it's not.

From the OED

obtuse, adj. : Annoyingly unperceptive or slow to understand


Don't burst his bubble, OP is just trying to use big lawyer words.

RickyDnwhyc
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby RickyDnwhyc » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:37 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
bernaldiaz wrote:
RickyDnwhyc wrote:
bernaldiaz wrote:Whaaa? Don't use words you don't know, bro.


It's synonymous with stupid, dense, confusing. U mad?


No, it's not.

From the OED

obtuse, adj. : Annoyingly unperceptive or slow to understand


Don't burst his bubble, OP is just trying to use big lawyer words.


Also from the OED:

adjective
1 annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand:

he wondered if the doctor was being deliberately obtuse

difficult to understand, especially deliberately so:

some of the lyrics are a bit obtuse

lulz, it's ok. I know you guys have nothing better to do.

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20130312
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby 20130312 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:44 pm

RickyDnwhyc wrote:lulz, it's ok. I know you guys have nothing better to do.


Certainly not studying for law school, because who really cares about grades mirite?

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Lincoln
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby Lincoln » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:45 pm

RickyDnwhyc wrote:Do grades really indicate that much about how well someone would actually be at practicing the law?


Ability and willingness to work hard and to work long hours, time management skills, and discipline, are very important skills in the practice of law at a big firm. You already admitted that your lacking these skills would be the main reason for your (hypothetically) poor grades, so in your case, at least, grades are likely a good indication of "how well [sic] someone would actually be at practicing the law."

RickyDnwhyc
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Re: Law School Grades - How important for BigLaw?

Postby RickyDnwhyc » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:56 pm

Lincoln wrote:
RickyDnwhyc wrote:Do grades really indicate that much about how well someone would actually be at practicing the law?


Ability and willingness to work hard and to work long hours, time management skills, and discipline, are very important skills in the practice of law at a big firm. You already admitted that your lacking these skills would be the main reason for your (hypothetically) poor grades, so in your case, at least, grades are likely a good indication of "how well [sic] someone would actually be at practicing the law."


Thank you. I have always assumed that law school was a place where one builds those skills, but since 1L grades are so important, maybe I should hold off on attending Law School. I think the best course of action for me would be to take on a job (right now) that requires the same skills so I'll be prepared for my first year.




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