Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

(Please Ask Questions and Answer Questions)

How hard is it to get into PittLaw PA?

VERY hard, your credentials must be sublime
9
60%
Moderately hard, your credentials need to be above average
1
7%
Average, your credentials need only to be above the minimum
5
33%
 
Total votes: 15

Tankstar
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Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby Tankstar » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:10 pm

I want to go to law school, but I only have a 2.9 undergrad GPA and my LSAT score was 155/180. I'm starting to think that will greatly effect how much the schools I apply to will give me in scholarships/grants/assistantships/etc, if I even get accepted. I mean, I think I can get in and get aid/loans, but idk about getting anything from the school to help me out even though I'm low income. My dream school that I will be applying to first is PittLaw PA. Do you think I can get in? If not, what other PA law schools might you recommend? I am not afraid to aim low as long as they give me a Law Degree. I can find my own ways to fill in the blanks with a little "pursuit of happiness", so to speak.

I'm starting to wonder, however, if that might be the least of my problems...

"Uncle Sam will no longer pay the interest on new graduate loans while students are in school and for six months after they finish. The change comes as government data shows that the average annual cost of a master's degree and professional programs in law and medicine has jumped by double digits. Enrollment in graduate programs has risen by 33 percent since 2000, to 2.8 million students." (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012 ... e-students)

I think that means I'm going to have to pay more for tuition, not to mention the cost of living, books, etc. Oh, AND I am going to have to compete much more to get in, which my sub par qualifications/scores will not make easy for me. :(

I just have a feeling I am going to hit my gov loan ceiling and have to take out GradPLUS loans (gulp). By the time I get a job and start working I will be up to my ears in debt which has compounding interest! (shudder)

I'm just wondering if I should just take my BA in poli sci and start looking for jobs now instead of going to grad/law school. Any veteran law students out there going through this mess next year? Any advice would help. Thanks! :D

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dingbat
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby dingbat » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:30 pm

Tankstar wrote:I want to go to law school, but I only have a 2.9 undergrad GPA and my LSAT score was 155
I'll cut to the chase - if you can't break 170, don't go

Basically, any school that will take you with that GPA and anything short of a super-splitter LSAT is not worth going to, unless you get a full ride. However, most schools require you to have both a GPA and an LSAT (significantly) above their medians for a full ride, so that will again limit you to schools not worth going.

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Nova
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby Nova » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:42 pm

You are not getting into Pitt with those numbers. You are not getting into PSU/Nova/Temple either. Retake until you score above their median. Even then, you are probably looking at near sticker. T2 Penn schools are not worth sticker.

Like DB said, you really need to do much better on the LSAT to put yourself in a decent position.

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Icculus
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby Icculus » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:45 pm

Nova wrote:You are not getting into Pitt with those numbers. You are not getting into PSU/Nova/Temple either. Retake until you score above their median. Even then, you are probably looking at near sticker.


Not worth i. With under a 3.0 you need a very high LSAT to make law school worth the risk. Personal aside: Pitt should not be your dream school, your dream school should be either the place that gives you the best opportunity to get a job, or a strong regional school you can attend for nearly free.

Tankstar
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby Tankstar » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:55 pm

Thanks guys, I appreciate your honesty. I have been doing more research and... yea. It seems you all are correct. Even if I did have a better score, law students do not have a pretty forecast ahead of them unless they get a lot of free money to help them out. Ugh! :cry:

So my plan B is to maybe just grab a masters in public administration to better my chances of landing a half-decent job. That is, if I can't find a tolerable job with my BA before December when I grad.

Thanks again.

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dingbat
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby dingbat » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:59 pm

Tankstar wrote:Thanks guys, I appreciate your honesty. I have been doing more research and... yea. It seems you all are correct. Even if I did have a better score, law students do not have a pretty forecast ahead of them unless they get a lot of free money to help them out. Ugh! :cry:

So my plan B is to maybe just grab a masters in public administration to better my chances of landing a half-decent job. That is, if I can't find a tolerable job with my BA before December when I grad.

Thanks again.

Good luck

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Icculus
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby Icculus » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:00 pm

Tankstar wrote:Thanks guys, I appreciate your honesty. I have been doing more research and... yea. It seems you all are correct. Even if I did have a better score, law students do not have a pretty forecast ahead of them unless they get a lot of free money to help them out. Ugh! :cry:

So my plan B is to maybe just grab a masters in public administration to better my chances of landing a half-decent job. That is, if I can't find a tolerable job with my BA before December when I grad.

Thanks again.


This may also be a waste of money. Before you go jumping into another program figure out what you want to do with your life and if a master's degree or JD would even be necessary.

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Nova
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby Nova » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:01 pm

dingbat wrote:Good luck

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SuperCerealBrah
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby SuperCerealBrah » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:05 pm

dingbat wrote:
Tankstar wrote:I want to go to law school, but I only have a 2.9 undergrad GPA and my LSAT score was 155
I'll cut to the chase - if you can't break 170, don't go

Basically, any school that will take you with that GPA and anything short of a super-splitter LSAT is not worth going to, unless you get a full ride. However, most schools require you to have both a GPA and an LSAT (significantly) above their medians for a full ride, so that will again limit you to schools not worth going.




IMO, thats a bit extreme. You don't need to break 170 for it to be worth it. I know many people in the 160s who got good scholarships.

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dingbat
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby dingbat » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:11 pm

SuperCerealBrah wrote:
dingbat wrote:
Tankstar wrote:I want to go to law school, but I only have a 2.9 undergrad GPA and my LSAT score was 155
I'll cut to the chase - if you can't break 170, don't go

Basically, any school that will take you with that GPA and anything short of a super-splitter LSAT is not worth going to, unless you get a full ride. However, most schools require you to have both a GPA and an LSAT (significantly) above their medians for a full ride, so that will again limit you to schools not worth going.




IMO, thats a bit extreme. You don't need to break 170 for it to be worth it. I know many people in the 160s who got good scholarships.

Did they:
1) have a GPA below 3.0
2) have an LSAT below 170
3) get a significant scholarship at a T1

dissonance1848
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby dissonance1848 » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:17 pm

Yeah. With a 2.9 GPA, this guy needs at least a 167+ for some scholly at midwest schools, and the midwest markets, even with ties, are pretty brutal. If the OP wants to hedge as much as possible, given his stats, he needs that 170+, so he can shoot for Georgetown, Cornell, NU (needs WE though) and maybe UVA (needs ED though).

Tankstar
Posts: 12
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby Tankstar » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:18 pm

Icculus wrote:
Tankstar wrote:Thanks guys, I appreciate your honesty. I have been doing more research and... yea. It seems you all are correct. Even if I did have a better score, law students do not have a pretty forecast ahead of them unless they get a lot of free money to help them out. Ugh! :cry:

So my plan B is to maybe just grab a masters in public administration to better my chances of landing a half-decent job. That is, if I can't find a tolerable job with my BA before December when I grad.

Thanks again.


This may also be a waste of money. Before you go jumping into another program figure out what you want to do with your life and if a master's degree or JD would even be necessary.


Honestly? All I care about is job security with a decent chance of promotion, good benefits, and a wage I can live on while paying off my debts. I dan't have any real dream job except being a college professor in Political science, which is not going to happen because it would cost a fortune, I would need a very high GRE score, and my current credentials just aren't competitive enough. I would be happy with just about anything as long as my boss isn't a sociopath and I don't have to commute for 2 hours to get there. In this day in age guys like me need to be happy with what they can get, and when they find a good opportunity they need to hold onto it like a pit-bull with lock-jaw. lol. I would be the mascot for the Cleveland Indians if they paid me enough and offered me a good contract. haha :wink:

thanks for your input though. I will not ignore it. No matter what I do after my BA as far as additional schooling is concerned, it's going to be a risky investment that may or may not be worth it. I just gotta keep looking around and checking the numbers.

Tankstar
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby Tankstar » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:20 pm

SuperCerealBrah wrote:
dingbat wrote:
Tankstar wrote:I want to go to law school, but I only have a 2.9 undergrad GPA and my LSAT score was 155
I'll cut to the chase - if you can't break 170, don't go

Basically, any school that will take you with that GPA and anything short of a super-splitter LSAT is not worth going to, unless you get a full ride. However, most schools require you to have both a GPA and an LSAT (significantly) above their medians for a full ride, so that will again limit you to schools not worth going.




IMO, thats a bit extreme. You don't need to break 170 for it to be worth it. I know many people in the 160s who got good scholarships.


good to know, thanks. it's nice to hear some good news for a change, lol. do you know what schools they got into?

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dingbat
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby dingbat » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:26 pm

Tankstar wrote:All I care about is job security with a decent chance of promotion, good benefits, and a wage I can live on while paying off my debts.

Image

Tankstar
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby Tankstar » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:27 pm

dissonance1848 wrote:Yeah. With a 2.9 GPA, this guy needs at least a 167+ for some scholly at midwest schools, and the midwest markets, even with ties, are pretty brutal. If the OP wants to hedge as much as possible, given his stats, he needs that 170+, so he can shoot for Georgetown, Cornell, NU (needs WE though) and maybe UVA (needs ED though).


I might sound very foolish in saying this, but, I want to stay in PA to get the in state savings since I am a resident here/there. That's why I want to go to pittlaw so bad because they are public and lower their tuition costs for in state dudes like me. But, I would not mind going to a lower tier law school as long as they give me a law degree. If I could manage to keep the costs below 90-100k then I would be pretty happy. This, however, could hurt me in the long run because what if no one would hire me? Have lawyers ever free-lanced successfully? lol jk jk. I just imagined me in a dirty suit on the side of the road holding a sign that said "will represent for food." Not a pretty sight.

You are right. I guess I just have to aim high or not aim at all? :(

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fatduck
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby fatduck » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:29 pm

i got $ at pitt with a 170/2.9. 155 to 170 is a big jump, but probably not impossible.

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Nova
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby Nova » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:31 pm

Tankstar wrote:good to know, thanks. it's nice to hear some good news for a change, lol. do you know what schools they got into?


http://search.lawschoolnumbers.com/user ... Cycle=1112

http://myLSN.info/dispresults.php?sk=8dg0r

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Icculus
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby Icculus » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:33 pm

dingbat wrote:
Tankstar wrote:All I care about is job security with a decent chance of promotion, good benefits, and a wage I can live on while paying off my debts.

Image


+1.

Also, my input about a mater's is merely that you probably don't need one to get the job you're looking for. I would recommend working a year or two and then deciding if the MA or JD is something worth pursuing. Most times to get ahead in a company all you need is a BA and a good work ethic. Only get a graduate degree if it will help you get into a particular field or if after securing employment you realize the MA or JD will help you move forward. Plus many companies offer tuition reimbursement and that would cut down on costs.

Tankstar
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby Tankstar » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:33 pm

dingbat wrote:
Tankstar wrote:All I care about is job security with a decent chance of promotion, good benefits, and a wage I can live on while paying off my debts.

Image


hahaha omg that's funny :P I just watched those movies for the first time all the way through over the summer. good stuff. did you know chris nolan also played khan in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan? I was not impressed. lol.

anyways. would it help if I said I would be willing to work for a pathetic wage in order to be able to have those benefits and job security? I'm talking like, 35k a year and living in a small apartment or paying half of a low mortgage with my fiance on a cheap house. Anything will do as long as I am paying my bills on time, living comfortably, feeling happy-ish, and have plumbing. lol. (i guess plumbing is part of being comfortable but whatever. haha)

I'm making that pic my background.

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Nova
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby Nova » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:39 pm

Tankstar wrote:I might sound very foolish in saying this, but, I want to stay in PA to get the in state savings since I am a resident here/there. That's why I want to go to pittlaw so bad because they are public and lower their tuition costs for in state dudes like me. But, I would not mind going to a lower tier law school as long as they give me a law degree. If I could manage to keep the costs below 90-100k then I would be pretty happy. This, however, could hurt me in the long run because what if no one would hire me? Have lawyers ever free-lanced successfully? lol jk jk. I just imagined me in a dirty suit on the side of the road holding a sign that said "will represent for food." Not a pretty sight.

You are right. I guess I just have to aim high or not aim at all? :(


90k for a degree worse than Pitt/Nova/PSU/Temple degree is really over paying.

Job prospects below the T2 Penn schools really suck. They are not worth 3 years of your life, even with free tuition.

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Tankstar
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby Tankstar » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:40 pm

fatduck wrote:i got $ at pitt with a 170/2.9. 155 to 170 is a big jump, but probably not impossible.


holy **** really? cause I could always retake it. I know I would do much better the second time, especially if I studied more. I was a bit rushed the first time and was not well prepared, so, I think I could improve my score to at least a 165-170.

I mean it makes sense. pittlaw is a nice school but they are not like harvard or anything. that's part of the reason I have been so on the fence about it. part of me says it's at least worth the application fee just to see what they offer. i read some stuff online for grad/law school loan info and they said I could maybe negotiate some extra money out of the school of my choice if I had offers elsewhere that offered it to me already. with a higher lsat it might be possible to do such a thing. maybe?

i feel like im on a teeter-totter...

Tankstar
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby Tankstar » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:41 pm

Icculus wrote:
dingbat wrote:
Tankstar wrote:All I care about is job security with a decent chance of promotion, good benefits, and a wage I can live on while paying off my debts.

Image


+1.

Also, my input about a mater's is merely that you probably don't need one to get the job you're looking for. I would recommend working a year or two and then deciding if the MA or JD is something worth pursuing. Most times to get ahead in a company all you need is a BA and a good work ethic. Only get a graduate degree if it will help you get into a particular field or if after securing employment you realize the MA or JD will help you move forward. Plus many companies offer tuition reimbursement and that would cut down on costs.


awesome advice, thanks a lot! :D

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Kikero
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby Kikero » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:41 pm

Tankstar wrote:did you know chris nolan also played khan in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan? I was not impressed. lol.



wut?

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SuperCerealBrah
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby SuperCerealBrah » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:42 pm

Nova wrote:
Tankstar wrote:I might sound very foolish in saying this, but, I want to stay in PA to get the in state savings since I am a resident here/there. That's why I want to go to pittlaw so bad because they are public and lower their tuition costs for in state dudes like me. But, I would not mind going to a lower tier law school as long as they give me a law degree. If I could manage to keep the costs below 90-100k then I would be pretty happy. This, however, could hurt me in the long run because what if no one would hire me? Have lawyers ever free-lanced successfully? lol jk jk. I just imagined me in a dirty suit on the side of the road holding a sign that said "will represent for food." Not a pretty sight.

You are right. I guess I just have to aim high or not aim at all? :(


90k for a degree worse than Pitt/Nova/PSU/Temple degree is really over paying.

Job prospects below the T2 Penn schools really suck. They are not worth 3 years of your life, even with free tuition.

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The difference between Pitt and these other schools you quoted from LST doesn't look like much when compared on bar passage required jobs percentages. I did not look at Nova/PSU/Temple though.
Last edited by SuperCerealBrah on Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tankstar
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Re: Is law school worth it now with the recent price increases?

Postby Tankstar » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:43 pm

Nova wrote:
Tankstar wrote:I might sound very foolish in saying this, but, I want to stay in PA to get the in state savings since I am a resident here/there. That's why I want to go to pittlaw so bad because they are public and lower their tuition costs for in state dudes like me. But, I would not mind going to a lower tier law school as long as they give me a law degree. If I could manage to keep the costs below 90-100k then I would be pretty happy. This, however, could hurt me in the long run because what if no one would hire me? Have lawyers ever free-lanced successfully? lol jk jk. I just imagined me in a dirty suit on the side of the road holding a sign that said "will represent for food." Not a pretty sight.

You are right. I guess I just have to aim high or not aim at all? :(


90k for a degree worse than Pitt/Nova/PSU/Temple degree is really over paying.

Job prospects below the T2 Penn schools really suck. They are not worth 3 years of your life, even with free tuition.

--LinkRemoved--

--LinkRemoved--


Really? Even with free tuition?? :?




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