Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

(Please Ask Questions and Answer Questions)
HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:33 pm

WODKilla123 wrote:1st off, MTO is the best litigation shop in the USA. dat Cali sunshine bro.

2nd, y u so mad that NYU grads clean up in the V10 and have way lower grade cut offs than Penn grads? Enjoy your V75-100 breh.

See: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=163550&start=675 for evidence as to how biglaw associates at the nation's most elite firms routinely say NYU = CLS and lump P with MBV. hth.

You do realize the average person who burns out of a V75-100 after 3-5 years doesn't end up in an appreciably different place than the average person who does the same at a V10, right?

Fantasies and delusions aside, I would say NYU has a moderate edge over Penn in NYC (though not enough to warrant paying a whole lot more). Outside there, they're more or less peers.

And transferring from Penn to NYU sounds pointless, at least as far as seeking a career placement advantage goes.

User avatar
Greenandgold
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:45 pm

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby Greenandgold » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:44 pm

rayiner wrote:
KevinP wrote:
rayiner wrote:Penn with even a little money >> CLS. The prestige difference is irrelevant. It's not like CLS is HLS.

Donno about Penn, but if we are talking about NYU vs CLS, CLS easily takes the lay preftige cake, although Penn/NYU + $ is usually a smarter move than CLS + sticker.


Outside NYC, NYU has more lay prestige than CLS. Columbia doesn't have a good football team, it's not a top college pick among "normal people" who want to major in theater arts, and nobody famous went there.


Where are you from? I'm down in Texas and everyone that I've talked to knows Columbia is an ivy. Nobody here knows anything about NYU. Your analysis seems completely backwards IMHO.

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:46 pm

Greenandgold wrote:
rayiner wrote:
KevinP wrote:
rayiner wrote:Penn with even a little money >> CLS. The prestige difference is irrelevant. It's not like CLS is HLS.

Donno about Penn, but if we are talking about NYU vs CLS, CLS easily takes the lay preftige cake, although Penn/NYU + $ is usually a smarter move than CLS + sticker.


Outside NYC, NYU has more lay prestige than CLS. Columbia doesn't have a good football team, it's not a top college pick among "normal people" who want to major in theater arts, and nobody famous went there.


Where are you from? I'm down in Texas and everyone that I've talked to knows Columbia is an ivy. Nobody here knows anything about NYU. Your analysis seems completely backwards.

Legal employers don't hire on the basis of lay prestige, so who gives a fuck.

kaiser
Posts: 2940
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 11:34 pm

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby kaiser » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:48 pm

^^^^

+1. Who the hell cares what the general populace knows about? All that matters is what legal employers know.

ajaxconstructions
Posts: 248
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 12:24 am

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby ajaxconstructions » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:48 pm

rayiner wrote:Can't tell if srs. Columbia is an Ivy, a research power house, and the famous people that attended there (if we are talking about Columbia in general) include Obama, Roosevelts, and Buffet.


Totally serious. HYP are the only Ivies people can remember, probably because they're the only ones regularly used in movies and TV. Columbia doesn't do research in any area people are usually familiar with (unlike MIT which always comes up in the engineering context, Stanford which always comes up in the startup/Silicon Valley context or Johns Hopkins which always comes up in the medical context). It's rarely brought up in the context of Obama (U Chicago and Harvard are). Buffet got an M.S. from Columbia, and nobody has any idea where most dead presidents went to college.

I have no particular axe to grind against Columbia. It's just that if you're going to pick between schools based on lay prestige, you should at least pick a school that people generally recognize.[/quote]

Thing is, although more people might know about NYU compared to Columbia, most people I've met outside NY who know NYU don't think it's a particularly good school. On the other hand, everyone who does know Columbia seemed to hold it in high regard.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:55 pm

ajaxconstructions wrote:Thing is, although more people might know about NYU compared to Columbia, most people I've met outside NY who know NYU don't think it's a particularly good school. On the other hand, everyone who does know Columbia seemed to hold it in high regard.


People who have heard of Columbia are likely to be familiar with college rankings, etc.

User avatar
Greenandgold
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:45 pm

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby Greenandgold » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:56 pm

HeavenWood wrote:Legal employers don't hire on the basis of lay prestige, so who gives a fuck.


Sorry, didn't realize the only things that are worth discussing are hiring factors used by legal employers. Carry on.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:57 pm

kaiser wrote:^^^^

+1. Who the hell cares what the general populace knows about? All that matters is what legal employers know.


We ambled onto this lay prestige discussion because legal employers don't distinguish much between CLS/NYU.

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:59 pm

rayiner wrote:
kaiser wrote:^^^^

+1. Who the hell cares what the general populace knows about? All that matters is what legal employers know.


We ambled onto this lay prestige discussion because legal employers don't distinguish much between CLS/NYU.

BUT COLUMBIA IS AN IVY

User avatar
Ruxin1
Posts: 1284
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:12 pm

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby Ruxin1 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:00 pm

I'd say Upenn has more lay prestige than columbia due to fact of people's associations with Wharton; but these arguments are stupid, once your sitting next to a dude grinding out biglaw you won't be measuring dick size of schools.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:00 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
rayiner wrote:
kaiser wrote:^^^^

+1. Who the hell cares what the general populace knows about? All that matters is what legal employers know.


We ambled onto this lay prestige discussion because legal employers don't distinguish much between CLS/NYU.

BUT COLUMBIA IS AN IVY


It's funny because the same people who trot out "Columbia is an Ivy" would reject using that to imply that Cornell is prestigious.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:01 pm

Ruxin1 wrote:I'd say Upenn has more lay prestige than columbia due to fact of people's associations with Wharton.


This was my experience as well.

User avatar
HarlandBassett
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:50 pm

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby HarlandBassett » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:03 pm

rayiner wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
rayiner wrote:
kaiser wrote:^^^^

+1. Who the hell cares what the general populace knows about? All that matters is what legal employers know.


We ambled onto this lay prestige discussion because legal employers don't distinguish much between CLS/NYU.

BUT COLUMBIA IS AN IVY


It's funny because the same people who trot out "Columbia is an Ivy" would reject using that to imply that Cornell is prestigious.

Image

ajaxconstructions
Posts: 248
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 12:24 am

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby ajaxconstructions » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:03 pm

rayiner wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
rayiner wrote:
kaiser wrote:^^^^

+1. Who the hell cares what the general populace knows about? All that matters is what legal employers know.


We ambled onto this lay prestige discussion because legal employers don't distinguish much between CLS/NYU.

BUT COLUMBIA IS AN IVY


It's funny because the same people who trot out "Columbia is an Ivy" would reject using that to imply that Cornell is prestigious.


Cornell has more lay prestige than NYU though on the East Coast.

User avatar
kwais
Posts: 1683
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 12:28 pm

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby kwais » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:08 pm

Rayiner has gone off the deep end. NYU is an awesome school but no one has heard of it outside of NYC. And Columbia has more Nobel laureates than any school, EVER. lol at does no research

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:16 pm

kwais wrote:Rayiner has gone off the deep end. NYU is an awesome school but no one has heard of it outside of NYC. And Columbia has more Nobel laureates than any school, EVER. lol at does no research

I wouldn't go that far. It's at least known across BosWash.

User avatar
kwais
Posts: 1683
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 12:28 pm

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby kwais » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:19 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
kwais wrote:Rayiner has gone off the deep end. NYU is an awesome school but no one has heard of it outside of NYC. And Columbia has more Nobel laureates than any school, EVER. lol at does no research

I wouldn't go that far. It's at least known across BosWash.


probably true, although I grew up near boston and was very aware of elite education and I only heard NYU a few times in the context of acting. My point was hyperbolous.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:21 pm

kwais wrote:Columbia has more Nobel laureates than any school, EVER.


And nobody knows that. I'm not talking about the merits of the schools as schools. When I say "research" I mean stuff that people might have heard about, e.g. Stanford's association with Google.

User avatar
kwais
Posts: 1683
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 12:28 pm

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby kwais » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:27 pm

rayiner wrote:
kwais wrote:Columbia has more Nobel laureates than any school, EVER.


And nobody knows that. I'm not talking about the merits of the schools as schools. When I say "research" I mean stuff that people might have heard about, e.g. Stanford's association with Google.


fair point, but were you serious about NYU national rep in this respect?

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:35 pm

kwais wrote:
rayiner wrote:
kwais wrote:Columbia has more Nobel laureates than any school, EVER.


And nobody knows that. I'm not talking about the merits of the schools as schools. When I say "research" I mean stuff that people might have heard about, e.g. Stanford's association with Google.


fair point, but were you serious about NYU national rep in this respect?


I was serious about more people having heard of NYU. I get the impression that a lot of people know about NYU as a place where rich artsy kids go to. Which at least nets a "oh that's a good school" from most people, as opposed to the "where is that?" you get from people when you bring up Columbia.

User avatar
kwais
Posts: 1683
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 12:28 pm

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby kwais » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:38 pm

rayiner wrote:
kwais wrote:
rayiner wrote:
kwais wrote:Columbia has more Nobel laureates than any school, EVER.


And nobody knows that. I'm not talking about the merits of the schools as schools. When I say "research" I mean stuff that people might have heard about, e.g. Stanford's association with Google.


fair point, but were you serious about NYU national rep in this respect?


I was serious about more people having heard of NYU. I get the impression that a lot of people know about NYU as a place where rich artsy kids go to. Which at least nets a "oh that's a good school" from most people, as opposed to the "where is that?" you get from people when you bring up Columbia.


where are you from?

User avatar
Lawquacious
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:36 am

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby Lawquacious » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:40 pm

Sorry, I just saw I had already answered this. I think of these as peers, although that may be tainted by the fact that in my mind NYU has very little prestige outside of east coast. But that is lay prestige, and lay prestige obviously doesn't determine hiring (although I imagine it still comes into play for seeking clients). Also, PENN's lay prestige is fairly limited outside of east coast, so it's not like PENN has much (if any) of an advantage in that regard in any case.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:49 pm

I should point out that I don't think it's good to take lay prestige into account when picking a law school. Because that would lead you to take Duke over the rest of the T4-14. What I'm trying to get at is that not only is lay prestige a stupid reason to pick a law school, but Columbia doesn't have enough for it to be a weighty factor in picking CLS over Penn or NYU. Again, it's not Harvard/Yale.

You should pick amongst CLS/NYU/Penn based on locations and scholarship $$.

User avatar
Samara
Posts: 3245
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 4:26 pm

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby Samara » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:35 am

Trying to measure and compare lay prestige is just about the dumbest thing you can do. People outside the Great Lakes states think that Purdue is an Ivy-level private school FFS.

User avatar
moonman157
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:26 pm

Re: Safe to say Penn and NYU are peers?

Postby moonman157 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:46 am

Columbia has been referenced in both Old School and How I Met Your Mother. Take thatM people who say it has no lay prestige!




Return to “Law School FAQ”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests