Leaving a Good Job

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dimreturns
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby dimreturns » Sat May 12, 2012 12:09 am

Tough decision. I left a job making about the same with solid opportunity for advancement. I was mid-twenties and if I had stayed I'd probably be looking at something like low six figs by now, in a pretty cushy/low-stress environment. I left for ccn and will be going back to the same city for big law. In the end I left because I was bored out of mind and I wanted more.

For you, as others have alluded to, I think the question is what do you want out of your career? If you are truly happy doing what you're doing, and have a decent advancement path in front of you, I'd think hard about staying. If you decide you just want more (either fulfillment, challenge, money, whatever) then you need to refocus. Forget about going back to this firm because you can't control that. If you decide to go this route, you should really re-take (since there doesn't seem to be any urgency for you right now) and shoot for at least a T14. I don't say that to be snobby, but this is a cost-benefit analysis. You're giving up a lot for law school if you leave your job, so the law school you go to better be goddamn worth it, and better give you great odds at actually getting what you came to law school for. If you go the law school route, nothing wrong with using your contacts at the firm, but as you make this decision you should really act like that connection doesn't exist. Is the law school you're thinking about really worth it?

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BeerMaker
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby BeerMaker » Sat May 12, 2012 8:25 am

What if I got good grades at ND, GW, WUSTL?

Also, would transferring to Michigan, NU or Cornell be an alternative to retaking the LSAT? What kind of grades would it take?

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dingbat
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby dingbat » Sat May 12, 2012 10:51 am

BeerMaker wrote:What if I got good grades at ND, GW, WUSTL?

Also, would transferring to Michigan, NU or Cornell be an alternative to retaking the LSAT? What kind of grades would it take?

If you're top 25% at any of those, you should be ok
To transfer, you need to be closer to 10%

MrAnon
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby MrAnon » Sat May 12, 2012 11:21 am

you should go to school at night. You don't give up a stable 60k/year job nowadays, especially for a T25

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby somewhatwayward » Sat May 12, 2012 11:53 am

BeerMaker wrote:What if I got good grades at ND, GW, WUSTL?

Also, would transferring to Michigan, NU or Cornell be an alternative to retaking the LSAT? What kind of grades would it take?


i'm not trying to pick on you in particular, but why does every person on this forum ask this question?? what is so terrible about retaking the LSAT? it is a hell of a lot easier to study for the LSAT and raise your score then it is to be in the top of your class in law school so that you have a shot at transferring. the LSAT is very learnable. how did you study for it in the past?

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sunynp
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby sunynp » Sat May 12, 2012 12:54 pm

BeerMaker wrote:Serious dilemma. I am a 30 year old with a $60,000 per year job. I was accepted at a T25 school. I currently work in Big Law in IT and have very solid contacts/friends who are partners. Nonetheless, I am distraught over the decision to leave a job that I really like when nothing is guaranteed. Any advice?


Don't go. Defer a year if you need to do so. Take another year to figure this out and to see where the economy is going. I wouldn't give up a good job with good benefits that you enjoy. It would be foolish, take more time to make this decision, law school isn't going anywhere.

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annet
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby annet » Sat May 12, 2012 9:45 pm

BeerMaker wrote:I want to go because I want to practice law. I want more out of life and I feel like I have a leg up based on my connections/friendships with partners. I've been here 7 years. These people are like brothers. I have been told that I have a good shot at a summer job based on my reputation and ties as long as I get good grades. The dilemma is still the same. Leave a comfortable, well paying position that I enjoy to become poor and bust my ass to get back home that first summer? Regardless of what they say, the market is shit. I don't want to graduate without a job. I also don't want to give up the opportunity. I feel that my circumstances are a bit rare in that I know a lot of people and they know me. I'm 30 by the way.

The branch firms have very poor pt programs if any at all. No DC firm.


(About to turn 30, indifferent about my current lot in life, so fwiw I have some idea where you're coming from.)

Do you just want to make more money? Or do you feel that you would really enjoy the work you see the associates at your firm doing more than the IT work you're currently doing? If it's just the money then, frankly, law school is probably the wrong way to do it. Your lost opportunity costs are really high (3 years' salary, experience in your field, bonuses, 401k contributions, lost promotion opportunities, etc.).

If you're sure that being a practicing lawyer will make you a happier and more fulfilled person (and by working at a firm for 7 years you probably have as good an idea as anyone except a paralegal), then sit out another year and get your LSAT up to T14+ territory. Get a killer scholarship or get into a school where sticker makes some sense in terms of job prospects. You don't hate your job, so look at it as getting paid to study for the LSAT for another year.

83947368
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby 83947368 » Sat May 12, 2012 10:25 pm

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Last edited by 83947368 on Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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dingbat
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby dingbat » Sat May 12, 2012 10:34 pm

Adm.Doppleganger wrote:I would not go. This thread seems to be full of people who should not go. If kids my age had the opportunities/jobs being left behind in this thread there would not be so many going to law school.

It's kind of ridiculous. I keep seeing the assumption that people will be making more money after law school. Not to mention the seeming disregard for a mortgage worth of debt.

Money isn't everything
(although lack of money does equate to nothingness)

83947368
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby 83947368 » Sat May 12, 2012 10:40 pm

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Last edited by 83947368 on Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Dustin.
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby Dustin. » Sat May 12, 2012 10:43 pm

sunynp wrote:
BeerMaker wrote:Serious dilemma. I am a 30 year old with a $60,000 per year job. I was accepted at a T25 school. I currently work in Big Law in IT and have very solid contacts/friends who are partners. Nonetheless, I am distraught over the decision to leave a job that I really like when nothing is guaranteed. Any advice?


Don't go. Defer a year if you need to do so. Take another year to figure this out and to see where the economy is going. I wouldn't give up a good job with good benefits that you enjoy. It would be foolish, take more time to make this decision, law school isn't going anywhere.


I think deferring would be a great option.

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dingbat
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby dingbat » Sat May 12, 2012 10:49 pm

Adm.Doppleganger wrote:ETA: The money isn't everything part seems to lend more credence to the point that since OP enjoys his/her job that he or she should not leave to go to law school just for a chance to enter a career renowned for depression

I agree completely with this.

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BeerMaker
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby BeerMaker » Sat May 12, 2012 11:29 pm

But ND has an 85% employment rate at graduation. I also have great connections. Talking to current students at ND, they feel pretty good about their job prospects. I'm ready for more and there is no promotional ability at my job. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate the advise, but I want more out of my life. Still unsure, but would love some positive support. Also, the partners at my firm are far from depressed. They're living like kings and love their life.
Last edited by BeerMaker on Sat May 12, 2012 11:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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dingbat
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby dingbat » Sat May 12, 2012 11:31 pm

BeerMaker wrote:But ND has an 85% employment rate at graduation. I also have great connections. Talking to current students at ND, they feel pretty good about there job prospects. I'm ready for more and there is no promotional ability at my job. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate the advise, but I want more out of my life. Still unsure, but would love some positive support.
If you're giving up a well-paying, secure job you love, it's hard to find positive support.

If you're following your dream/ambition and you know full well what you're getting yourself into, then I most definitely will support that

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BeerMaker
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby BeerMaker » Sat May 12, 2012 11:41 pm

Should my fear be more about work conditions than unemployment? 85% employment at ND seems like good odds at lawyering.

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dingbat
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby dingbat » Sat May 12, 2012 11:45 pm

BeerMaker wrote:Should my fear be more about work conditions than unemployment? 85% employment at ND seems like good odds at lawyering.

yeah, but will you enjoy lawyering?
There's a reasonable chance that you won't be making much more than you do now, which, after taking loan repayments into account, means that you could be trading a job you love for a job you loathe, with nothing to show for it.

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BeerMaker
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby BeerMaker » Sat May 12, 2012 11:55 pm

dingbat wrote:
BeerMaker wrote:Should my fear be more about work conditions than unemployment? 85% employment at ND seems like good odds at lawyering.

yeah, but will you enjoy lawyering?
There's a reasonable chance that you won't be making much more than you do now, which, after taking loan repayments into account, means that you could be trading a job you love for a job you loathe, with nothing to show for it.


Good point. I do like my job a lot. There is a decent poosibility that I end up back at my firm, with my friends, and all is good. If I pull off good grades, I think it's quite reasonable. However, I see your concern. It's not a sure bet by any means.

Also, my loans allow for over a grand for room and board, so I hope I'm not dirt poor. I also have a spouse that will most likely help with an income. God this is so tough. I really am torn.
Last edited by BeerMaker on Sun May 13, 2012 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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dingbat
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby dingbat » Sat May 12, 2012 11:56 pm

BeerMaker wrote:Good point. I do like my job a lot. There is a decent poosibility that I end up back at my firm, with my friends, and all is good. If I pull off good grades, I think it's quite reasonable. However, I see your concern. It's not a sure bet by any means.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for taking chances (even stupid ones)
It just sounds like you have a pretty sweet setup already.
I hope it works out for you

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BeerMaker
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby BeerMaker » Sun May 13, 2012 12:03 am

dingbat wrote:
BeerMaker wrote:Good point. I do like my job a lot. There is a decent poosibility that I end up back at my firm, with my friends, and all is good. If I pull off good grades, I think it's quite reasonable. However, I see your concern. It's not a sure bet by any means.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for taking chances (even stupid ones)
It just sounds like you have a pretty sweet setup already.
I hope it works out for you


I do appreciate your advice very much. I have to ask, why are you going?

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby JamMasterJ » Sun May 13, 2012 12:04 am

BeerMaker wrote:I did not get into a top 14. If I go, I will be going to a top 25. I cannot go part time unfortunately. I love my job, there is a lot of job security, I have great benefits, bonuses are big and I get a lot of vacation time. I also expect to get a decent raise every year. The hard part for me is that I have all of these connections with the firm that I work at. If I am able to come back and work as an attorney, I would make significantly more money in the long run. What would you do?

unless you can basically guarantee biglaw through those connections, NO.

Odds of T25 (assuming not T20) Biglaw are not even close to high enough to make it worth the risk. If you couldn't get Biglaw at median or below through the connections, don't go. If it's "get a degree and you're hired," then go for it.

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Odd Future Wolf Gang
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby Odd Future Wolf Gang » Sun May 13, 2012 12:32 am

BeerMaker wrote:I want more out of my life


*decides on a profession with one of the lowest job satisfaction rates*

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BeerMaker
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby BeerMaker » Sun May 13, 2012 12:40 am

JamMasterJ wrote:
BeerMaker wrote:I did not get into a top 14. If I go, I will be going to a top 25. I cannot go part time unfortunately. I love my job, there is a lot of job security, I have great benefits, bonuses are big and I get a lot of vacation time. I also expect to get a decent raise every year. The hard part for me is that I have all of these connections with the firm that I work at. If I am able to come back and work as an attorney, I would make significantly more money in the long run. What would you do?

unless you can basically guarantee biglaw through those connections, NO.

Odds of T25 (assuming not T20) Biglaw are not even close to high enough to make it worth the risk. If you couldn't get Biglaw at median or below through the connections, don't go. If it's "get a degree and you're hired," then go for it.


I don't know if it's get a degree and you're hired, but I'm pretty confident that it's get good grades and you're hired. I mean these partners are my friends. They're telling me I have a good shot.

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sunynp
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby sunynp » Sun May 13, 2012 7:06 am

BeerMaker wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
BeerMaker wrote:I did not get into a top 14. If I go, I will be going to a top 25. I cannot go part time unfortunately. I love my job, there is a lot of job security, I have great benefits, bonuses are big and I get a lot of vacation time. I also expect to get a decent raise every year. The hard part for me is that I have all of these connections with the firm that I work at. If I am able to come back and work as an attorney, I would make significantly more money in the long run. What would you do?

unless you can basically guarantee biglaw through those connections, NO.

Odds of T25 (assuming not T20) Biglaw are not even close to high enough to make it worth the risk. If you couldn't get Biglaw at median or below through the connections, don't go. If it's "get a degree and you're hired," then go for it.


I don't know if it's get a degree and you're hired, but I'm pretty confident that it's get good grades and you're hired. I mean these partners are my friends. They're telling me I have a good shot.


Don't rely on what they are telling you about getting hired. They are just saying what you want to hear. They can't promise you a job, they have no idea what the economy and hiring will be like in a few years and you can't know if you will get good grades. I don't know why you want people to tell you that this is a good plan. You yourself are doubting whether it is a good idea. You have a great job and you are happy so why destroy that?

If you want some more information about the market for lawyers, read through the last few posts on prof campos blog inside the law school scam.

I don't think you should go. But I think if you need to do so, try deferring.

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dingbat
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby dingbat » Sun May 13, 2012 7:49 am

BeerMaker wrote:They're telling me I have a good shot.

is it an 18.02% shot or an 18.95% shot?

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Lawst
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Re: Leaving a Good Job

Postby Lawst » Sun May 13, 2012 8:11 am

I left an $80K job that I held for more than 10 years to go to law school full time. Part-time was an option, but I was ready to quit my field for good and my intended type of law wasn't going to be tied to what I did at my job. I'd rather be done in three years and be able to focus on getting decent grades rather than try to balance work and school and likely be mediocre at both.
It comes down to this - do you want to be a lawyer or are you just looking to do this to make more money? If it's the latter, stay where you are, because it's a lot of work if you aren't sure you want to be a lawyer. If you want to practice law but are scared of leaving a secure job to take the leap, well, that's natural. I went through that big time.
You say you love your job, but you did apply to law school. If you were to be in the same job in five years, would that feel good or depressing? If it would feel depressing, you probably just have the natural hesitation one has before a big life change. It's a good thing.
Also, don't count on coming back to the firm. It may happen, and you should try to keep in touch with the people you know there, but be open to other opportunities.




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