Joint Degrees

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Artistry
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Joint Degrees

Postby Artistry » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:00 am

Do joint degrees allow for prospective lawyers to more easily find employment? If so, then which Masters degree would be the best option to pursue?

rad lulz
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby rad lulz » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:01 am

Generally no. They make you look uncommitted and are a waste of money. Possible exception for a badass MBA.

Artistry
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby Artistry » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:06 am

rad lulz wrote:Generally no. They make you look uncommitted and are a waste of money.

But don't they allow for an insurance policy in the event that legal work is inaccessible?

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TTTLS
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby TTTLS » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:15 am

rad lulz wrote:Generally no. They make you look uncommitted and are a waste of money. Possible exception for a badass MBA.
A JD/PhD may also be a credited path.

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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby rad lulz » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:16 am

Artistry wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Generally no. They make you look uncommitted and are a waste of money.

But don't they allow for an insurance policy in the event that legal work is inaccessible?

You then look uncommitted to non-legal employers.

Artistry
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby Artistry » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:28 am

rad lulz wrote:
Artistry wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Generally no. They make you look uncommitted and are a waste of money.

But don't they allow for an insurance policy in the event that legal work is inaccessible?

You then look uncommitted to non-legal employers.

This feels counterintuitive to me. I had thought that joint degrees tended to complement one another, not disrupt each other.

rad lulz
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby rad lulz » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:31 am

Artistry wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Artistry wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Generally no. They make you look uncommitted and are a waste of money.

But don't they allow for an insurance policy in the event that legal work is inaccessible?

You then look uncommitted to non-legal employers.

This feels counterintuitive to me. I had thought that joint degrees tended to complement one another, not disrupt each other.

I'll admit I know more about the law side of it, but at least on that side, you don't need a MPH to do healthcare law, a MSW to do PI stuff, MEcon to corporate work, etc. The law is mostly stuff you learn on the job, not in school. And if you work for a large/medium sized firm, a lot of them have a specific hiring timetable which you then throw off unless you do the program in 3 years.

I can't think of any reason to get like a JD/MDiv.

Artistry
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby Artistry » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:40 am

Part of the reason I bring this up is because I'm going to be finishing undergrad with a degree in criminal justice shortly. Most government jobs in criminal justice require a masters (or related work experience) to be eligible.

I had been looking for a school for a JD in the hope of practicing, but I then thought that, if that didn't work out for some reason, I'd be able to rely on the masters of criminal justice to get a job somewhere in the federal government.

Not too many jobs exist where a bachelors of criminal justice will get you a job; that's why I thought pursuing a joint degree would be a nice compliment and an insurance policy all in one.

And if things REALLY go bad, I could try later to get a Ph.D or something.

rad lulz
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby rad lulz » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:42 am

Artistry wrote:Part of the reason I bring this up is because I'm going to be finishing undergrad with a degree in criminal justice shortly. Most government jobs in criminal justice require a masters (or related work experience) to be eligible.

I had been looking for a school for a JD in the hope of practicing, but I then thought that, if that didn't work out for some reason, I'd be able to rely on the masters of criminal justice to get a job somewhere in the federal government.

Not too many jobs exist where a bachelors of criminal justice will get you a job; that's why I thought pursuing a joint degree would be a nice compliment and an insurance policy all in one.

And if things REALLY go bad, I could try later to get a Ph.D or something.

Maybe in that field. I'm not that familiar with it. Like I said, I know more about the legal side, especially firms.

Artistry
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby Artistry » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:44 am

rad lulz wrote:
Artistry wrote:Part of the reason I bring this up is because I'm going to be finishing undergrad with a degree in criminal justice shortly. Most government jobs in criminal justice require a masters (or related work experience) to be eligible.

I had been looking for a school for a JD in the hope of practicing, but I then thought that, if that didn't work out for some reason, I'd be able to rely on the masters of criminal justice to get a job somewhere in the federal government.

Not too many jobs exist where a bachelors of criminal justice will get you a job; that's why I thought pursuing a joint degree would be a nice compliment and an insurance policy all in one.

And if things REALLY go bad, I could try later to get a Ph.D or something.

Maybe in that field. I'm not that familiar with it. Like I said, I know more about the legal side, especially firms.

I see. Well, your advice is appreciated all the same, rad lulz. Thanks again.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby Doorkeeper » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:36 am

TTTLS wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Generally no. They make you look uncommitted and are a waste of money. Possible exception for a badass MBA.
A JD/PhD may also be a credited path.

Not really. Then the firms thing you're going to jump ship for academia in 2-3 years.

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TommyK
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby TommyK » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:56 am

Artistry wrote:And if things REALLY go bad, I could try later to get a Ph.D or something.


Why? Would you need a masters degree before you pursue a Ph.D.?

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DocHawkeye
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby DocHawkeye » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:57 am

Doorkeeper wrote:
TTTLS wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Generally no. They make you look uncommitted and are a waste of money. Possible exception for a badass MBA.
A JD/PhD may also be a credited path.

Not really. Then the firms thing you're going to jump ship for academia in 2-3 years.


As one who got a PhD (admittedly in a field that is very difficult to relate to the law) before going to law school, let me tell you what a pain in the ass it is to explain it away in interviews. Unfortunately, leaving it off my resume isn't really possible either, as it would create a three year hole in my employment history as well. I agree with the advice here. Don't bother - the J.D. is sufficient in almost every case and the PhD would be an added burden that you just don't want.

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DocHawkeye
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby DocHawkeye » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:58 am

TommyK wrote:
Artistry wrote:And if things REALLY go bad, I could try later to get a Ph.D or something.


Why? Would you need a masters degree before you pursue a Ph.D.?


In some fields, and at some schools, a masters degree is a prerequisite for admission to the PhD program. Some schools confer both degrees upon completion of the PhD.

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TommyK
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby TommyK » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:04 am

DocHawkeye wrote:
TommyK wrote:
Artistry wrote:And if things REALLY go bad, I could try later to get a Ph.D or something.


Why? Would you need a masters degree before you pursue a Ph.D.?


In some fields, and at some schools, a masters degree is a prerequisite for admission to the PhD program. Some schools confer both degrees upon completion of the PhD.


Then it doesn't seem worth the time, effort, risk to legal employment just so if 1) you can't find a legal job, 2) you want to go into a Ph.D. program and 3) that particular Ph.D. program requires a masters degree.

JD/MBA seems like it could be a useful pairing. You could explain it away pretty easily in interviews that you were originally interested in corporate law and thought this would provide a stronger foundation for future practice.

SLim1124
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby SLim1124 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:23 am

With the exception of science people doing patent work. PHD is the only way to get to the top. I'll probably have to squeeze one of those in someday...

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twenty
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby twenty » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:45 pm

I do understand and appreciate why people are saying that a JD/Ph.D can actually hurt you, I really can't help but think no one employer is going to actually go, "Stanford JD, awesome!... but, you also have a Stanford PhD... damn... and I was almost going to hire you, too."

Having said that, I've also heard from law school professors (albeit, professors that have been out of the hiring market for the last 10+ years) that feel like a HYSCC* JD/PhD is especially helpful for academia/clerkship.

(*that sound you heard is Brian Leiter crying himself to sleep.)

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aekea
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby aekea » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:24 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:I do understand and appreciate why people are saying that a JD/Ph.D can actually hurt you, I really can't help but think no one employer is going to actually go, "Stanford JD, awesome!... but, you also have a Stanford PhD... damn... and I was almost going to hire you, too."

Having said that, I've also heard from law school professors (albeit, professors that have been out of the hiring market for the last 10+ years) that feel like a HYSCC* JD/PhD is especially helpful for academia/clerkship.

(*that sound you heard is Brian Leiter crying himself to sleep.)

My sister's doing a joint PhD JD and since she's in both programs at the same time, she gets to apply her PhD money toward her JD even though she won't be actively working on the PhD for 3 years. So, even though she didn't get any sort of grants for the JD, it's only going to cost her $15,000 total. Seems like a pretty awesome deal to me.

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twenty
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby twenty » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:26 pm

Which school? I know Stanford provides funding for both, is there another one?

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aekea
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby aekea » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:28 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:Which school? I know Stanford provides funding for both, is there another one?

Yeah, at Stanford.

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romothesavior
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby romothesavior » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:28 pm

DocHawkeye wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:
TTTLS wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Generally no. They make you look uncommitted and are a waste of money. Possible exception for a badass MBA.
A JD/PhD may also be a credited path.

Not really. Then the firms thing you're going to jump ship for academia in 2-3 years.


As one who got a PhD (admittedly in a field that is very difficult to relate to the law) before going to law school, let me tell you what a pain in the ass it is to explain it away in interviews. Unfortunately, leaving it off my resume isn't really possible either, as it would create a three year hole in my employment history as well. I agree with the advice here. Don't bother - the J.D. is sufficient in almost every case and the PhD would be an added burden that you just don't want.

I think you guys both missed the sarcasm.

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twenty
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby twenty » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:31 pm

Could have easily, although I've seen the same sentiment on other threads. Granted, they may have all been sarcastic, too.

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aekea
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Re: Joint Degrees

Postby aekea » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:31 pm

romothesavior wrote:
DocHawkeye wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:Not really. Then the firms thing you're going to jump ship for academia in 2-3 years.


As one who got a PhD (admittedly in a field that is very difficult to relate to the law) before going to law school, let me tell you what a pain in the ass it is to explain it away in interviews. Unfortunately, leaving it off my resume isn't really possible either, as it would create a three year hole in my employment history as well. I agree with the advice here. Don't bother - the J.D. is sufficient in almost every case and the PhD would be an added burden that you just don't want.

I think you guys both missed the sarcasm.

Hmm, yeah that makes much more sense as sarcasm.




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