Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

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Tom Joad
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby Tom Joad » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:20 am

JoeFish wrote:
splitsplat wrote:Fuck me. I only have lawyers that believe me in one state and have only been quizzed by 1Ls. :cry: Is that good enough for top 25%?


Yes, but only just. But what you should be doing right now is busting your ass to make good impressions on lawyers in other states countries. That could bump you up into top 15%.5%

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Blessedassurance
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby Blessedassurance » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:53 am

FeelTheHeat wrote: I take pride in a shitty LSAT score. It means things aren't just given to me, that I'm going to have to actually work my way to the top, unlike these spoiled brats retake.


Edited on behalf of reason.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby FeelTheHeat » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:56 am

Blessedassurance wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote: I take pride in a shitty LSAT score. It means things aren't just given to me, that I'm going to have to actually work my way to the top, unlike these spoiled brats retake.


Edited on behalf of reason.


Retaking is for chumps. You should have to get it right the first time. Do you think people that risk their lives every day get to retake when things go wrong? It's a byproduct of the video game generation, and it's bullshit.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby Tom Joad » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:00 am

FeelTheHeat wrote:
Blessedassurance wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote: I take pride in a shitty LSAT score. It means things aren't just given to me, that I'm going to have to actually work my way to the top, unlike these spoiled brats retake.


Edited on behalf of reason.


Retaking is for chumps. You should have to get it right the first time. Do you think people that risk their lives every day get to retake when things go wrong? It's a byproduct of the video game generation, and it's bullshit.

It really is BS that schools take the highest score now.

-1 time LSAT taker

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Blessedassurance
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby Blessedassurance » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:03 am

FeelTheHeat wrote:
Blessedassurance wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote: I take pride in a shitty LSAT score. It means things aren't just given to me, that I'm going to have to actually work my way to the top, unlike these spoiled brats retake.


Edited on behalf of reason.


Retaking is for chumps. You should have to get it right the first time. Do you think people that risk their lives every day get to retake when things go wrong? It's a byproduct of the video game generation, and it's bullshit.


Yes, great boxers retake all the time, at the peril of their lives. Marquez, once robbed, risked his life to fight Pacquiao again. With 100% confidence and hard work, he lost again, on account of arbitrary grading.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:04 am

TatteredDignity wrote:
Lvaughn714 wrote:If you aren't at least 90% convinced that you are going to pretty much kick butt at law school or a legal career, what is the point?



they cant predict
...

ETA: an important part of your planned success will be a firm command of grammar. Thread title should be "am I the only person who believes in herself?"

:roll:

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laxbrah420
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby laxbrah420 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:28 am

I've just been wondering, how many selves of yours do you believe in?

zanzbar
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby zanzbar » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:41 am

Mike12188 wrote:
zanzbar wrote:OP I took a law class at my TTT on a pass fail basis. There is really no way to know if you are prepared for law school until after your first exam. I somehow managed a top 5 score on the test. I didn't deserve it because I slacked off on the readings and attending class. It has given me some confidence in that I know how to handle an issue spotter style exam and use statutes to effectively argue both sides of a point but the most important thing I learned is not really the law itself but how to present your argument in a way that appeases your professor and the only way you can learn that is by going to class. This experience has made me somewhat confident in how I will perform next year but it also served as a huge wake-up call on how to be successful I need to be more diligent in keeping up with the reading and going to class and forming a study group. Trust me the worst feeling I have ever felt in terms of school was reading that first issue prompt on the test and having to sit there wasting 10-15 minutes trying to find a single issue to argue. This site has humbled my original expectations of being an easy top 10% student to now I have a gameplan for my 1st year of giving it my best shot and if it goes bad ill drop out and fallback on getting a decent job with nepotism and my UG credentials and paying back my 10-15k in debt.


So you're in UG and you took a law class at a TTT - were there actually law students in it? Was it curved?

If it wasn't curved or it was but just full of UG kids, I wouldn't read into the score so much, but if def. seems like a good prep into issue spotters.


55 entering 1L students, 5 UG students we just had to place in the top 75% of the section on the final to get a pass. Turns out if you ended up with a B average or better, after they applied the curve, then if you enroll you received an exemption from repeating the class next year and can just take a 2L class instead. Pretty much a real test run at a law school class our exams were even blind graded with the rest of the section.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby Stanford4Me » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:16 am

Image

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Lawst
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby Lawst » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:38 am

zanzbar wrote:
Mike12188 wrote:
zanzbar wrote:OP I took a law class at my TTT on a pass fail basis. There is really no way to know if you are prepared for law school until after your first exam. I somehow managed a top 5 score on the test. I didn't deserve it because I slacked off on the readings and attending class. It has given me some confidence in that I know how to handle an issue spotter style exam and use statutes to effectively argue both sides of a point but the most important thing I learned is not really the law itself but how to present your argument in a way that appeases your professor and the only way you can learn that is by going to class. This experience has made me somewhat confident in how I will perform next year but it also served as a huge wake-up call on how to be successful I need to be more diligent in keeping up with the reading and going to class and forming a study group. Trust me the worst feeling I have ever felt in terms of school was reading that first issue prompt on the test and having to sit there wasting 10-15 minutes trying to find a single issue to argue. This site has humbled my original expectations of being an easy top 10% student to now I have a gameplan for my 1st year of giving it my best shot and if it goes bad ill drop out and fallback on getting a decent job with nepotism and my UG credentials and paying back my 10-15k in debt.


So you're in UG and you took a law class at a TTT - were there actually law students in it? Was it curved?

If it wasn't curved or it was but just full of UG kids, I wouldn't read into the score so much, but if def. seems like a good prep into issue spotters.


55 entering 1L students, 5 UG students we just had to place in the top 75% of the section on the final to get a pass. Turns out if you ended up with a B average or better, after they applied the curve, then if you enroll you received an exemption from repeating the class next year and can just take a 2L class instead. Pretty much a real test run at a law school class our exams were even blind graded with the rest of the section.


Seriously, schools do this? If I were a 1L at that school, I would be beyond pissed. First, that they're letting in undergrads, and second that those undergrads could potentially mess with the curve, though at least there's only 5 of them in the class. And yes, there's a very good chance that the UG students could outdo a lot of the 1Ls because the hardest thing about the first year is that you have four or five of these classes and not enough time to give them all 100%. A student in a 1L class whose other classes are all UG-level? Unfair advantage.
I hope if you do go to law school, you don't go to that school. Shenanigans, I say. Shenanigans!

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Dany
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby Dany » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:51 am

Stanford4Me wrote:Image

:lol:

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hichvichwoh
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby hichvichwoh » Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:02 am

Stanford4Me wrote:Image


TURN AROUND WONKA! I'm over here, dammit!

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dingbat
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby dingbat » Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:26 am

I believe in God and I believe in Claude (that's me)

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:34 am

FeelTheHeat wrote:
Da1andOnlyPharo wrote:OP, don't let all these tools get to you. The reason they are all mocking your confidence is because they are insecure. The truth is, they think they've worked so hard to "get where they are." They think because they did well on the LSAT and got a decent GPA, they must be really smart, but then they get to law school and realize how tough it is. And then when they graduate and a job isn't handed to them, it must be because the legal market is in shambles.


I agree. It's amazing that, for being able to do so well on tests, the morons on this site can't comprehend that it might be them, not the legal market. The groupthink on TLS is appalling sometimes. I take pride in a shitty LSAT score. It means things aren't just given to me, that I'm going to have to actually work my way to the top, unlike these spoiled brats.


...

Wow.

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dingbat
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby dingbat » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:20 pm

FeelTheHeat wrote:
Da1andOnlyPharo wrote:OP, don't let all these tools get to you. The reason they are all mocking your confidence is because they are insecure. The truth is, they think they've worked so hard to "get where they are." They think because they did well on the LSAT and got a decent GPA, they must be really smart, but then they get to law school and realize how tough it is. And then when they graduate and a job isn't handed to them, it must be because the legal market is in shambles.


I agree. It's amazing that, for being able to do so well on tests, the morons on this site can't comprehend that it might be them, not the legal market. The groupthink on TLS is appalling sometimes. I take pride in a shitty LSAT score. It means things aren't just given to me, that I'm going to have to actually work my way to the top, unlike these spoiled brats.

I'm just waiting for those special snowflakes to realize that in the real world people don't praise you for doing your job. I bet after a few years those special snowflakes are going to call it a day on their high-pressure life and just walk away. With more money than you'll ever comprehend.

I take pride in my not so shitty LSAT because it's an accurate reflection of my innate ability. I've worked hard and hope I'll be rewarded commensurate with my ability and effort
I hate to say it, not everyone is equally smart and not everyone is equally hardworking and while I'm above average on both counts, I understand the difference between me and the guy/gal who becomes a senior partner and head of a division at a major law firm
I mean, seriously, there's smart&hardworking and them there's fucking brilliant and married to the job (if not a total slave)

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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby zanzbar » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:45 pm

Lawst wrote:
zanzbar wrote:
Mike12188 wrote:
zanzbar wrote:OP I took a law class at my TTT on a pass fail basis. There is really no way to know if you are prepared for law school until after your first exam. I somehow managed a top 5 score on the test. I didn't deserve it because I slacked off on the readings and attending class. It has given me some confidence in that I know how to handle an issue spotter style exam and use statutes to effectively argue both sides of a point but the most important thing I learned is not really the law itself but how to present your argument in a way that appeases your professor and the only way you can learn that is by going to class. This experience has made me somewhat confident in how I will perform next year but it also served as a huge wake-up call on how to be successful I need to be more diligent in keeping up with the reading and going to class and forming a study group. Trust me the worst feeling I have ever felt in terms of school was reading that first issue prompt on the test and having to sit there wasting 10-15 minutes trying to find a single issue to argue. This site has humbled my original expectations of being an easy top 10% student to now I have a gameplan for my 1st year of giving it my best shot and if it goes bad ill drop out and fallback on getting a decent job with nepotism and my UG credentials and paying back my 10-15k in debt.


So you're in UG and you took a law class at a TTT - were there actually law students in it? Was it curved?

If it wasn't curved or it was but just full of UG kids, I wouldn't read into the score so much, but if def. seems like a good prep into issue spotters.


55 entering 1L students, 5 UG students we just had to place in the top 75% of the section on the final to get a pass. Turns out if you ended up with a B average or better, after they applied the curve, then if you enroll you received an exemption from repeating the class next year and can just take a 2L class instead. Pretty much a real test run at a law school class our exams were even blind graded with the rest of the section.


Seriously, schools do this? If I were a 1L at that school, I would be beyond pissed. First, that they're letting in undergrads, and second that those undergrads could potentially mess with the curve, though at least there's only 5 of them in the class. And yes, there's a very good chance that the UG students could outdo a lot of the 1Ls because the hardest thing about the first year is that you have four or five of these classes and not enough time to give them all 100%. A student in a 1L class whose other classes are all UG-level? Unfair advantage.
I hope if you do go to law school, you don't go to that school. Shenanigans, I say. Shenanigans!


Its only open to seniors of the Honors College, and then you have to go through a whole application process. I might have attended if I had been approved to do the Constitutional Law class they offered this semester so that I could get 2 of my 1L classes out of the way, but I didn't get selected so I am deciding between two other schools in state. It was kind of hard turning down that advantage I would have had next year because I even got a professor to explain the different curving requirements for 1L classes and 2L/3L classes at the school (1L curve is on a 2.8 median, others 3.1 median.) I don't think I will have a noticeable advantage over my fellow 1Ls because it will probably just be like I did some amount of prep in Contracts because I doubt I regain any of the real in depth stuff from the class by the Fall besides the basics, unless of course I completely luck out and get a similar style professor who uses the same casebook.

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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby Randomnumbers » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:41 pm

zanzbar wrote:
Its only open to seniors of the Honors College, and then you have to go through a whole application process. I might have attended if I had been approved to do the Constitutional Law class they offered this semester so that I could get 2 of my 1L classes out of the way, but I didn't get selected so I am deciding between two other schools in state. It was kind of hard turning down that advantage I would have had next year because I even got a professor to explain the different curving requirements for 1L classes and 2L/3L classes at the school (1L curve is on a 2.8 median, others 3.1 median.) I don't think I will have a noticeable advantage over my fellow 1Ls because it will probably just be like I did some amount of prep in Contracts because I doubt I regain any of the real in depth stuff from the class by the Fall besides the basics, unless of course I completely luck out and get a similar style professor who uses the same casebook.


That's some real TTT stip control right there.

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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby DaftAndDirect » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:53 pm

FeelTheHeat wrote:
Blessedassurance wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote: I take pride in a shitty LSAT score. It means things aren't just given to me, that I'm going to have to actually work my way to the top, unlike these spoiled brats retake.


I still can't tell if this is for real.

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spleenworship
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby spleenworship » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:54 pm

Randomnumbers wrote:
zanzbar wrote:
Its only open to seniors of the Honors College, and then you have to go through a whole application process. I might have attended if I had been approved to do the Constitutional Law class they offered this semester so that I could get 2 of my 1L classes out of the way, but I didn't get selected so I am deciding between two other schools in state. It was kind of hard turning down that advantage I would have had next year because I even got a professor to explain the different curving requirements for 1L classes and 2L/3L classes at the school (1L curve is on a 2.8 median, others 3.1 median.) I don't think I will have a noticeable advantage over my fellow 1Ls because it will probably just be like I did some amount of prep in Contracts because I doubt I regain any of the real in depth stuff from the class by the Fall besides the basics, unless of course I completely luck out and get a similar style professor who uses the same casebook.


That's some real TTT stip control right there.


Probably true, though I think it is also an indicator of T1 grade inflation. After all... all you have to do to make sure half your schollys go away is by setting the stip at top 40%, no matter where that might be. Fact is that most schools in the T1 have raised medians to help their students compete for jobs.

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Ludo!
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby Ludo! » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:01 pm

DaftAndDirect wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:
Blessedassurance wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote: I take pride in a shitty LSAT score. It means things aren't just given to me, that I'm going to have to actually work my way to the top, unlike these spoiled brats retake.


I still can't tell if this is for real.


I think he was just on a trolling binge because the Heat lost last night

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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby Randomnumbers » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:06 pm

spleenworship wrote:
Randomnumbers wrote:
zanzbar wrote:
Its only open to seniors of the Honors College, and then you have to go through a whole application process. I might have attended if I had been approved to do the Constitutional Law class they offered this semester so that I could get 2 of my 1L classes out of the way, but I didn't get selected so I am deciding between two other schools in state. It was kind of hard turning down that advantage I would have had next year because I even got a professor to explain the different curving requirements for 1L classes and 2L/3L classes at the school (1L curve is on a 2.8 median, others 3.1 median.) I don't think I will have a noticeable advantage over my fellow 1Ls because it will probably just be like I did some amount of prep in Contracts because I doubt I regain any of the real in depth stuff from the class by the Fall besides the basics, unless of course I completely luck out and get a similar style professor who uses the same casebook.


That's some real TTT stip control right there.


Probably true, though I think it is also an indicator of T1 grade inflation. After all... all you have to do to make sure half your schollys go away is by setting the stip at top 40%, no matter where that might be. Fact is that most schools in the T1 have raised medians to help their students compete for jobs.


Yeah, but the poster had specified that this was at a TTT.

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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby rayiner » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:11 pm

Lvaughn714 wrote:So I have been on this site for about 6 months now and of course have read all the various advice given to people based on their scores, acceptances, etc about what they should do regarding attending and applying to law school. While I realized that almost all people are just trying to be helpful, I keep coming back to one question for everyone on here that is applying/seeking advice.

If you aren't at least 90% convinced that you are going to pretty much kick butt at law school or a legal career, what is the point?

I am not saying that every single law student or lawyer has to be phenomenal, but I think we can all agree that going to law school is a huge investment of your time, money, and sanity, and it is essentially a bet you are making on yourself. Yes what school you go to and how much debt you take on are important factors, but at the end of the day isn't the biggest factor of all your ability to succeed? And if you don't believe that you at least have a reasonable chance of doing so it doesn't matter how great of a school you go to, especially in this job market. It just seems like everyone on here is trying to hedge their bets and already terrified of failure before even stepping foot in their first class.


Everyone 0L believes in themselves. Then all the people who believe in themselves, and have similar levels of intelligence and work ethic, are put together in a room and rigidly curved against each other.

The people who are terrified of failure are the smart ones, the ones who realize the mathematics of the situation.

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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby rayiner » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:16 pm

PDaddy wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:OP wrote: " It just seems like everyone on here is trying to hedge their bets and already terrified of failure before even stepping foot in their first [law school] class."

This is called dealing with reality. Besides, fear is a great motivator.

OP: Law school costs of attendance have skyrocted despite a dwindling market for lawyers. Many need biglaw to pay off big debts. Biglaw is largely open only to those in the top law schools who perform exceptionally well during the first year among classes filled with competitive, brilliant & hard working students.


True. I would like to add that being a law student, much less a lawyer, is a lot like being an actor/actress. (1) The best ones aren't always the most successful (i.e. it's far from being a meritocracy); (2) Geography, timing, networks, and sheer luck can play a huge part in one's success; legacies, family networks, nepotism, racism, gender bias, and beauty bias can also factor into one's success. Added to the above considerations, law students are entering an endeavor in which, no matter how hard they work, their desired success can unfairly elude them - with life-altering consequences.

But I agree with OP's main point: either do the damn thing or don't. Boxers know they can be killed every time they step into the ring; yet they do it fearlessly.

BTW...it's "...believes in 'himself'?"


The funny thing about the boxer analogy is this. If the probability of a boxer dying every time he stepped into the ring was the same as the probability of a law student getting unemployment-pwned going to law school, boxers would never do it.

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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby dingbat » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:27 pm

rayiner wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:OP wrote: " It just seems like everyone on here is trying to hedge their bets and already terrified of failure before even stepping foot in their first [law school] class."

This is called dealing with reality. Besides, fear is a great motivator.

OP: Law school costs of attendance have skyrocted despite a dwindling market for lawyers. Many need biglaw to pay off big debts. Biglaw is largely open only to those in the top law schools who perform exceptionally well during the first year among classes filled with competitive, brilliant & hard working students.


True. I would like to add that being a law student, much less a lawyer, is a lot like being an actor/actress. (1) The best ones aren't always the most successful (i.e. it's far from being a meritocracy); (2) Geography, timing, networks, and sheer luck can play a huge part in one's success; legacies, family networks, nepotism, racism, gender bias, and beauty bias can also factor into one's success. Added to the above considerations, law students are entering an endeavor in which, no matter how hard they work, their desired success can unfairly elude them - with life-altering consequences.

But I agree with OP's main point: either do the damn thing or don't. Boxers know they can be killed every time they step into the ring; yet they do it fearlessly.

BTW...it's "...believes in 'himself'?"


The funny thing about the boxer analogy is this. If the probability of a boxer dying every time he stepped into the ring was the same as the probability of a law student getting unemployment-pwned going to law school, boxers would never do it.

If I remember correctly, about 50-60% of law students get jobs as lawyers
That's slightly better than the 50/50 chance a boxer has of winning his/her fight.
A small amount of boxers make big money while most boxers just get the shit beat out of them.
That analogy is spot-on

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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby zanzbar » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:29 pm

Randomnumbers wrote:
zanzbar wrote:
Its only open to seniors of the Honors College, and then you have to go through a whole application process. I might have attended if I had been approved to do the Constitutional Law class they offered this semester so that I could get 2 of my 1L classes out of the way, but I didn't get selected so I am deciding between two other schools in state. It was kind of hard turning down that advantage I would have had next year because I even got a professor to explain the different curving requirements for 1L classes and 2L/3L classes at the school (1L curve is on a 2.8 median, others 3.1 median.) I don't think I will have a noticeable advantage over my fellow 1Ls because it will probably just be like I did some amount of prep in Contracts because I doubt I regain any of the real in depth stuff from the class by the Fall besides the basics, unless of course I completely luck out and get a similar style professor who uses the same casebook.


That's some real TTT stip control right there.


Stipulation on the offer from the school I received were 3/4th tuition as long as GPA remains in the top 50% so I am not sure why the curve is set this way. It's surprisingly one of the TTT on here that isn't completely crucified. Hell I don't have anything really to hide the school is Texas Tech or as Mtal would call it TTexas TTech.




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