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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:02 pm
by Mike12188
zanzbar wrote:OP I took a law class at my TTT on a pass fail basis. There is really no way to know if you are prepared for law school until after your first exam. I somehow managed a top 5 score on the test. I didn't deserve it because I slacked off on the readings and attending class. It has given me some confidence in that I know how to handle an issue spotter style exam and use statutes to effectively argue both sides of a point but the most important thing I learned is not really the law itself but how to present your argument in a way that appeases your professor and the only way you can learn that is by going to class. This experience has made me somewhat confident in how I will perform next year but it also served as a huge wake-up call on how to be successful I need to be more diligent in keeping up with the reading and going to class and forming a study group. Trust me the worst feeling I have ever felt in terms of school was reading that first issue prompt on the test and having to sit there wasting 10-15 minutes trying to find a single issue to argue. This site has humbled my original expectations of being an easy top 10% student to now I have a gameplan for my 1st year of giving it my best shot and if it goes bad ill drop out and fallback on getting a decent job with nepotism and my UG credentials and paying back my 10-15k in debt.
So you're in UG and you took a law class at a TTT - were there actually law students in it? Was it curved?
If it wasn't curved or it was but just full of UG kids, I wouldn't read into the score so much, but if def. seems like a good prep into issue spotters.
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:15 pm
by Mr. Pancakes
is this shit still going on? fucking shit.
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:54 am
by Da1andOnlyPharo
OP, don't let all these tools get to you. The reason they are all mocking your confidence is because they are insecure. The truth is, they think they've worked so hard to "get where they are." They think because they did well on the LSAT and got a decent GPA, they must be really smart, but then they get to law school and realize how tough it is. And then when they graduate and a job isn't handed to them, it must be because the legal market is in shambles.
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:59 am
by lisjjen
Good lawyers are pessimists. /thread
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:00 am
by bk1
lisjjen wrote:Good lawyers are pessimists. /thread
Indeed.
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:15 am
by Richie Tenenbaum
Da1andOnlyPharo wrote:OP, don't let all these tools get to you. The reason they are all mocking your confidence is because they are insecure. The truth is, they think they've worked so hard to "get where they are." They think because they did well on the LSAT and got a decent GPA, they must be really smart, but then they get to law school and realize how tough it is. And then when they graduate and a job isn't handed to them, it must be because the legal market is in shambles.
Care to provide some wisdom on your law school experience, what it took to get good grades, and your experience in finding a job during 2L OCI?
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:18 am
by Samara
bk187 wrote:lisjjen wrote:Good lawyers are pessimists. /thread
Indeed.
Finally, scientific evidence that law is the right field for me. Now if we can just recreate the study for snark and cynicism, I'll be all set.
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:19 am
by Ludo!
Da1andOnlyPharo wrote:OP, don't let all these tools get to you. The reason they are all mocking your confidence is because they are insecure. The truth is, they think they've worked so hard to "get where they are." They think because they did well on the LSAT and got a decent GPA, they must be really smart, but then they get to law school and realize how tough it is. And then when they graduate and a job isn't handed to them, it must be because the legal market is in shambles.
Congrats, this is even stupider than the OP
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:05 am
by lobolawyer
Ludovico Technique wrote:Da1andOnlyPharo wrote:OP, don't let all these tools get to you. The reason they are all mocking your confidence is because they are insecure. The truth is, they think they've worked so hard to "get where they are." They think because they did well on the LSAT and got a decent GPA, they must be really smart, but then they get to law school and realize how tough it is. And then when they graduate and a job isn't handed to them, it must be because the legal market is in shambles.
Congrats, this is even stupider than the OP
Some of the wittiest and funniest zingers I've read are on TLS.
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:22 am
by PDaddy
CanadianWolf wrote:OP wrote: " It just seems like everyone on here is trying to hedge their bets and already terrified of failure before even stepping foot in their first [law school] class."
This is called dealing with reality. Besides, fear is a great motivator.
OP: Law school costs of attendance have skyrocted despite a dwindling market for lawyers. Many need biglaw to pay off big debts. Biglaw is largely open only to those in the top law schools who perform exceptionally well during the first year among classes filled with competitive, brilliant & hard working students.
True. I would like to add that being a law student, much less a lawyer, is a lot like being an actor/actress. (1) The best ones aren't always the most successful (i.e. it's far from being a meritocracy); (2) Geography, timing, networks, and sheer luck can play a huge part in one's success; legacies, family networks, nepotism, racism, gender bias, and beauty bias can also factor into one's success. Added to the above considerations, law students are entering an endeavor in which, no matter how hard they work, their desired success can unfairly elude them - with life-altering consequences.
But I agree with OP's main point: either do the damn thing or don't. Boxers know they can be killed every time they step into the ring; yet they do it fearlessly.
BTW...it's "...believes in
'himself'?"
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:37 am
by sunynp
PDaddy wrote:CanadianWolf wrote:OP wrote: " It just seems like everyone on here is trying to hedge their bets and already terrified of failure before even stepping foot in their first [law school] class."
This is called dealing with reality. Besides, fear is a great motivator.
OP: Law school costs of attendance have skyrocted despite a dwindling market for lawyers. Many need biglaw to pay off big debts. Biglaw is largely open only to those in the top law schools who perform exceptionally well during the first year among classes filled with competitive, brilliant & hard working students.
True. I would like to add that being a law student, much less a lawyer, is a lot like being an actor/actress. (1) The best ones aren't always the most successful (i.e. it's far from being a meritocracy); (2) Geography, timing, networks, and sheer luck can play a huge part in one's success; legacies, family networks, nepotism, racism, gender bias, and beauty bias can also factor into one's success. Added to the above considerations, law students are entering an endeavor in which, no matter how hard they work, their desired success can unfairly elude them - with life-altering consequences.
But I agree with OP's main point: either do the damn thing or don't. Boxers know they can be killed every time they step into the ring; yet they do it fearlessly.
BTW...it's "...believes in
'himself'?"
OPs main point is that she has special qualification that she incorrectly believes that will allow her to do well. Her main point isn't go and do your best despite the terrible odds against you. She thinks that because she will work hard(!) she will be fine. She is wrong.
The boxer analogy is just stupid.
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:25 am
by Blessedassurance
PDaddy wrote: True. I would like to add that being a law student, much less a lawyer, is a lot like being an actor/actress. (1) The best ones aren't always the most successful (i.e. it's far from being a meritocracy); (2) Geography, timing, networks, and sheer luck can play a huge part in one's success; legacies, family networks, nepotism, racism, gender bias, and beauty bias can also factor into one's success. Added to the above considerations, law students are entering an endeavor in which, no matter how hard they work, their desired success can unfairly elude them - with life-altering consequences.
But I agree with OP's main point: either do the damn thing or don't. Boxers know they can be killed every time they step into the ring; yet they do it fearlessly.
BTW...it's "...believes in 'himself'?"
In general I like your tone and good-intentions, I really do. You do however, have this uncanny ability to never make sense, a fact compounded by your propensity for weird shit like bolding, underlining and or doing both on pure whim and caprice etc.
Also, why boxers? Why couldn't you use a soldier as an example? Boxing is relatively safe. Imagine in your example, that the actor/actress had to borrow the non-dischargeable equivalent of a mortgage for what amounts to a chain of risks the results of which depended on some of the intangibles you mentioned. Is it rational to head into such a proposition with caution as opposed to 100% confidence?
Revisit the following part of your quote in relation to the OP:
"Added to the above considerations, law students are entering an endeavor in which, no matter how hard they work, their desired success can unfairly elude them - with life-altering consequences."
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:47 pm
by sunynp
Here is another problem I have with the OP ( the post not the person). I think the people who aren't mentally prepared for the reality of law school tend to be the people who get seriously depressed. If a student is used to always being the top student and goes into law school expecting to just work hard and landing in the top 10%, then that student may crash mentally when they are median or below. People don't always adjust well to what they perceive as failure. But if people go into school expecting that it may be a gamble and their grade is not entirely in their control, they will be more prepared to cope.
I have seen this happen IRL and there have been posts to this effect on this board. Some people become deeply depressed when they do everything they can and still end up below median. A person who is more aware of the possibility of being median (or lower) from the outset may be more mentally resilient.
The reality of the curve is a hard lesson to learn until you have experienced it yourself and observed the effects on your classmates.
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:12 pm
by spleenworship
sunynp wrote:Here is another problem I have with the OP ( the post not the person). I think the people who aren't mentally prepared for the reality of law school tend to be the people who get seriously depressed. If a student is used to always being the top student and goes into law school expecting to just work hard and landing in the top 10%, then that student may crash mentally when they are median or below. People don't always adjust well to what they perceive as failure. But if people go into school expecting that it may be a gamble and their grade is not entirely in their control, they will be more prepared to cope.
I have seen this happen IRL and there have been posts to this effect on this board. Some people become deeply depressed when they do everything they can and still end up below median. A person who is more aware of the possibility of being median (or lower) from the outset may be more mentally resilient.
The reality of the curve is a hard lesson to learn until you have experienced it yourself and observed the effects on your classmates.
+1
Also glad that my pessimism is going to work out for me.
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:44 pm
by Lawst
sunynp wrote: The reality of the curve is a hard lesson to learn until you have experienced it yourself and observed the effects on your classmates.
THIS.
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:52 pm
by splitbrain
Lawst wrote:sunynp wrote: The reality of the curve is a hard lesson to learn until you have experienced it yourself and observed the effects on your classmates.
THIS.
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:49 pm
by spleenworship
splitbrain wrote:Lawst wrote:sunynp wrote: The reality of the curve is a hard lesson to learn until you have experienced it yourself and observed the effects on your classmates.
THIS.
Especially when you are pretty sure some of the people scoring lower than you are smarter and harder working than you.... and one of the people scoring higher than you is an absolute, total, complete idiot.
And then you watch these smart, amazing people blame themselves, and flounder, and wonder if they should drop out and you think: there but for the grace of gawd go I.
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:27 pm
by splitbrain
Eh I'm late to the party but whatever.
Lvaughn714 wrote:If you aren't at least 90% convinced that you are going to pretty much kick butt at law school or a legal career, what is the point?
WTF is this percentage? So those kids that are only 75% confident in themselves should fuck off to med school? What are you talking about?
Lvaughn714 wrote:I guess my point is, if you don't know yourself and your skills well enough to have confidence that you can make a legal career work you are just throwing away money and time in the hopes that just coming out the other end with a JD from a not awful school will some how magically be better than where you are now.
Yes, sure, be confident, that's a great message, but you won't have any idea how you will do in school until you're actually there. Why is this so difficult to grasp?
And you seriously think a 0L's confidence would allow them to defend choosing a school that has a 5% success rate vs one with 75%+? What kind of bullshit is that?
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:32 pm
by 3ThrowAway99
Ludovico Technique wrote:
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:04 pm
by splitsplat
TheWeeIceMon wrote:Don't listen to these haters OP. If you work hard, have lawyers that believe in you (especially in more than 1 state), and have been quizzed by two 2Ls, you are definitely top 10% secure.
Fuck me. I only have lawyers that believe me in one state and have only been quizzed by 1Ls.
Is that good enough for top 25%?
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:18 pm
by padawanphil
OP reminds me of the type of person that is really good at Guitar Hero and thinks that means they can actually play guitar.
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:24 pm
by hichvichwoh
padawanphil wrote:OP reminds me of the type of person that is really good at Guitar Hero and thinks that means they can actually play guitar.
apt
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:29 pm
by FeelTheHeat
Da1andOnlyPharo wrote:OP, don't let all these tools get to you. The reason they are all mocking your confidence is because they are insecure. The truth is, they think they've worked so hard to "get where they are." They think because they did well on the LSAT and got a decent GPA, they must be really smart, but then they get to law school and realize how tough it is. And then when they graduate and a job isn't handed to them, it must be because the legal market is in shambles.
I agree. It's amazing that, for being able to do so well on tests, the morons on this site can't comprehend that it might be them, not the legal market. The groupthink on TLS is appalling sometimes. I take pride in a shitty LSAT score. It means things aren't just given to me, that I'm going to have to actually work my way to the top, unlike these spoiled brats.
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:26 pm
by Ludo!
FeelTheHeat wrote:Da1andOnlyPharo wrote:OP, don't let all these tools get to you. The reason they are all mocking your confidence is because they are insecure. The truth is, they think they've worked so hard to "get where they are." They think because they did well on the LSAT and got a decent GPA, they must be really smart, but then they get to law school and realize how tough it is. And then when they graduate and a job isn't handed to them, it must be because the legal market is in shambles.
I agree. It's amazing that, for being able to do so well on tests, the morons on this site can't comprehend that it might be them, not the legal market. The groupthink on TLS is appalling sometimes. I take pride in a shitty LSAT score. It means things aren't just given to me, that I'm going to have to actually work my way to the top, unlike these spoiled brats.
notsureifsrs
Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:15 am
by JoeFish
splitsplat wrote:Fuck me. I only have lawyers that believe me in one state and have only been quizzed by 1Ls.
Is that good enough for top 25%?
Yes, but only just. But what you should be doing right now is busting your ass to make good impressions on lawyers in other states. That could bump you up into top 15%.