Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

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Tom Joad
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby Tom Joad » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:46 pm

mattviphky wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:I would be slightly more confident in my ability to succeed if all my future classmates weren't my carbon copies in terms of LSAT, GPA, and past achievements.


YUP! I was talking with some family members about law school, and they gave me some sage advice about trying to be number one in my class. Well, this ain't undergrad or high school...everyone in your class is trying to be number one, and they are all just as capable as you, if not more so.

Agreed. I plan on putting in lots of hours 1L year, hopefully as many as anybody, but I think my innate intelligence will be on the low side for my school.

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specialsnowflake
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby specialsnowflake » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:48 pm

franklyscarlet wrote:
Lvaughn714 wrote:
TatteredDignity wrote:
Lvaughn714 wrote:If you aren't at least 90% convinced that you are going to pretty much kick butt at law school or a legal career, what is the point?


OP, please explain what reality this belief is supposed to be based out of. Unless you've been reincarnated and went to law school and worked in the legal profession in a past life, this pig-headed confidence can only be based on a healthy ego developed by your mother telling you how wonderful you are.

Everyone else accepts that they cant predict their performance against a class of their intellectual peers, and plans accordingly.

ETA: an important part of your planned success will be a firm command of grammar. Thread title should be "am I the only person who believes in herself?"


Image


Hey! get off my shit

theaether
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby theaether » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:52 pm

im with u buddy, i believes in ourselves

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franklyscarlet
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby franklyscarlet » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:53 pm

snowflake, I lol'd :D :D

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Samara
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby Samara » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:55 pm

franklyscarlet wrote:snowflake, I lol'd :D :D

He's the special snowflake of special snowflake meme posters. Duh.

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hichvichwoh
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby hichvichwoh » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:55 pm

specialsnowflake wrote:
franklyscarlet wrote:
Lvaughn714 wrote:
Image


Hey! get off my shit


Oh the irony!

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Blessedassurance
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby Blessedassurance » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:58 pm

R. Kelly believed in himself; he believed he could fly. Alas, piss was all there was.

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spleenworship
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby spleenworship » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:04 pm

Everyone here believes in themselves... but there is a difference between confidence, and overconfidence. Make sure you stay on the correct side of that line, OP.

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FryBreadPower
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby FryBreadPower » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:07 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Lvaughn714 wrote:So I have been on this site for about 6 months now and of course have read all the various advice given to people based on their scores, acceptances, etc about what they should do regarding attending and applying to law school. While I realized that almost all people are just trying to be helpful, I keep coming back to one question for everyone on here that is applying/seeking advice.

If you aren't at least 90% convinced that you are going to pretty much kick butt at law school or a legal career, what is the point?

I am not saying that every single law student or lawyer has to be phenomenal, but I think we can all agree that going to law school is a huge investment of your time, money, and sanity, and it is essentially a bet you are making on yourself. Yes what school you go to and how much debt you take on are important factors, but at the end of the day isn't the biggest factor of all your ability to succeed? And if you don't believe that you at least have a reasonable chance of doing so it doesn't matter how great of a school you go to, especially in this job market. It just seems like everyone on here is trying to hedge their bets and already terrified of failure before even stepping foot in their first class.

I guess my point is, if you don't know yourself and your skills well enough to have confidence that you can make a legal career work you are just throwing away money and time in the hopes that just coming out the other end with a JD from a not awful school will some how magically be better than where you are now.


Stop.


Image

lobolawyer
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby lobolawyer » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:09 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Lvaughn714 wrote:So I have been on this site for about 6 months now and of course have read all the various advice given to people based on their scores, acceptances, etc about what they should do regarding attending and applying to law school. While I realized that almost all people are just trying to be helpful, I keep coming back to one question for everyone on here that is applying/seeking advice.

If you aren't at least 90% convinced that you are going to pretty much kick butt at law school or a legal career, what is the point?

I am not saying that every single law student or lawyer has to be phenomenal, but I think we can all agree that going to law school is a huge investment of your time, money, and sanity, and it is essentially a bet you are making on yourself. Yes what school you go to and how much debt you take on are important factors, but at the end of the day isn't the biggest factor of all your ability to succeed? And if you don't believe that you at least have a reasonable chance of doing so it doesn't matter how great of a school you go to, especially in this job market. It just seems like everyone on here is trying to hedge their bets and already terrified of failure before even stepping foot in their first class.

I guess my point is, if you don't know yourself and your skills well enough to have confidence that you can make a legal career work you are just throwing away money and time in the hopes that just coming out the other end with a JD from a not awful school will some how magically be better than where you are now.


Stop.


You beat me to it.

OP Everything you said in this post will have absolutely no bearing on how you'll perform in LS. Everyone that goes is used to succeeding and most, if not all, have confidence they'll be in the top of the class. We know what the reality of that is...

And to deflate your argument, I was convinced I'd end up around median, and most days of 1L I thought everyone in the room knew more than me. I ended up exceeding those expectations by a long shot.

zanzbar
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby zanzbar » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:47 pm

OP I took a law class at my TTT on a pass fail basis. There is really no way to know if you are prepared for law school until after your first exam. I somehow managed a top 5 score on the test. I didn't deserve it because I slacked off on the readings and attending class. It has given me some confidence in that I know how to handle an issue spotter style exam and use statutes to effectively argue both sides of a point but the most important thing I learned is not really the law itself but how to present your argument in a way that appeases your professor and the only way you can learn that is by going to class. This experience has made me somewhat confident in how I will perform next year but it also served as a huge wake-up call on how to be successful I need to be more diligent in keeping up with the reading and going to class and forming a study group. Trust me the worst feeling I have ever felt in terms of school was reading that first issue prompt on the test and having to sit there wasting 10-15 minutes trying to find a single issue to argue. This site has humbled my original expectations of being an easy top 10% student to now I have a gameplan for my 1st year of giving it my best shot and if it goes bad ill drop out and fallback on getting a decent job with nepotism and my UG credentials and paying back my 10-15k in debt.

kaiser
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby kaiser » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:53 pm

Your "personal confidence" is nothing that every other student doesn't have coming in. As you said, if they didn't have some hope of success, why would they even bother? Its not like you have any sliver of advantage over your classmates. And then it comes down to 100% of kids coming in with this feeling that they will succeed, and the vast majority being wrong. But no one said they didn't have all the confidence in the world coming in.

Having confidence in yourself to do well in law school, and actually doing well in law school are 2 entirely separate and unrelated things. Don't forget that.
Last edited by kaiser on Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

acrossthelake
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby acrossthelake » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:54 pm

It doesn't matter if I believe in myself. Believing in myself isn't something to base a decision on where to go to school on. I do believe in myself, but I also go to a school where I don't have to be in the top half of the class to get a good job.

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sunynp
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby sunynp » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:05 pm

I don't understand how you could possibly have read this site for 6 months and come up with that post. If you are this bad at reading comprehension, I think your confidence is misplaced. And I'm not joking. If you haven't learned how much of a gamble law school is and how difficult the job market is by now, I think you might have a mental deficit of some kind.

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Ernert
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby Ernert » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:09 pm

Lvaughn714 wrote:I just happen to believe that I have a specific set of skills and interests that make it very likely that I will succeed in law school.


Image

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:30 pm

Lvaughn714 wrote:My personal confidence is based on several factors. Two of my closest friends are current 2Ls who I spent a lot of time with and I have actually learned a pretty solid amount about what law school is really like from them. I read some of their exams, talk them through issues in their papers, and more recently end up being quizzed by them and their other LS friends about whether or not I have what they think it takes to succeed in law school. I also know a handful of very successful lawyers, spread out among several states, practice areas, and different law schools, who all know me very well and also think I will do well. Pretty much what I have been told and what I believe is that the biggest factor for my success is going to be how hard I am willing to work. I'm not an asshole or a narcissist, I don't automatically assume that I will be good at anything, I just happen to believe that I have a specific set of skills and interests that make it very likely that I will succeed in law school. I don't expect this to just happen magically, I know I will have to work very hard, but I believe that it is possible.

I just don't understand why someone would take on such a risk if they didn't have a reasonable expectation of success, and I don't see how someone could have that expectation if they are already viewing things like law review or top 10% as being nearly unattainable. I don't assume I will get them, but I at least believe I have a strong chance.


Your personal confidence is based on:
1) Talking to current law students and glancing their their tests. And then being "quizzed" on whether they think you have what it takes.
2) Having successful lawyers tell you that would would do well.
3) You are willing to work hard.

/facepalm

To address each "factor":
1) It is very common for 1L's to be exposed to practice tests and sample answers. Having done this before law school is not a big advantage at all. Anyone who has read getting to maybe or done LEEWS (which a decent amount of people in your class have done) already knows more about law school exams than you do.
2) This is absolutely meaningless. I really don't feel like expounding on this point and hopefully you can recognize a lot of the reasons why this factor really means nothing.
3) Most of your future classmates will be too.


While succeeding in law school usually does require intelligence, hard work, and specific skills. But these don't guarantee you good grades. Luck can play a significant factor at time. Your future is mostly set based on usually 6-8 tests. Screw up on one and you could be screwed in general. Get unlucky on one (professor is a lazy grader and/or test-writer) and you could be screwed. Get sick or just not have your best performance on one or a few of the tests and you could be screwed.

There is nothing wrong with striving to be in the top 10% (and believing that you are capable of doing that). But it's another thing completely not to factor in the thin margin of error you have when going to law school and allowing yourself some wiggle room by attending a school with strong placement or limiting debt so you don't need biglaw to pay off your loans.

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TheWeeIceMon
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby TheWeeIceMon » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:09 pm

Don't listen to these haters OP. If you work hard, have lawyers that believe in you (especially in more than 1 state), and have been quizzed by two 2Ls, you are definitely top 10% secure.

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sunynp
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby sunynp » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:10 pm

TheWeeIceMon wrote:Don't listen to these haters OP. If you work hard, have lawyers that believe in you (especially in more than 1 state), and have been quizzed by two 2Ls, you are definitely top 10% secure.

:lol:

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dingbat
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby dingbat » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:00 pm

Tom Joad wrote:I would be slightly more confident in my ability to succeed if all my future classmates weren't my carbon copies in terms of LSAT, GPA, and past achievements.

Then you should go to a TTT where other people have 1/2 your GPA and 20% lower LSAT.
Be in the top 5% - you'll be the one who gets a job!

MrAnon
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby MrAnon » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:05 pm

You should have worried less about believing in yourself and more about learning a skill that is marketable and in demand.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby Tom Joad » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:17 pm

dingbat wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:I would be slightly more confident in my ability to succeed if all my future classmates weren't my carbon copies in terms of LSAT, GPA, and past achievements.

Then you should go to a TTT where other people have 1/2 your GPA and 20% lower LSAT.
Be in the top 5% - you'll be the one who gets a job!

Tom Joad wrote:slightly.

timbs4339
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:32 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimism_bias

This really should be required reading for every law student.

OP, other people have what you think makes you special and more.

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DaftAndDirect
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby DaftAndDirect » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:40 pm

Tom Joad wrote:
mattviphky wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:I would be slightly more confident in my ability to succeed if all my future classmates weren't my carbon copies in terms of LSAT, GPA, and past achievements.


YUP! I was talking with some family members about law school, and they gave me some sage advice about trying to be number one in my class. Well, this ain't undergrad or high school...everyone in your class is trying to be number one, and they are all just as capable as you, if not more so.

Agreed. I plan on putting in lots of hours 1L year, hopefully as many as anybody, but I think my innate intelligence will be on the low side for my school.


Tom I feel exactly the same way. But I'm having a hard time enjoying your post to the fullest due to the Marilyn Monroe quote in your profile.


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Lawst
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Re: Am I the only person who believes in themselves?

Postby Lawst » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:51 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:R. Kelly believed in himself; he believed he could fly. Alas, piss was all there was.

Fantastic metaphor for 1L year.




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