Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

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bdm261
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Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby bdm261 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:35 am

I am trying to find out which law schools people who attended my undergrad tended to get accepted to. Not every law school website offers this information. I scan every view book I get in the mail that lists this data for my school but end up disappointed.

I attend the University of Akron in Akron, OH and so far have only found information that says U of A grads made it to Cleveland State Marshall and University of Akron Law. I'm a little dismayed because my school LSAT average is 149 and am worried that going to Akron tends to keep students out of law school.

Are there any other schools that are very comparable in prestige to University of Akron? I just want to know what law schools people from my type of school make it to.

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bk1
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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby bk1 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:41 am

Your school isn't going to hold you back if you have a good GPA/LSAT. The thing that is holding previous grads back is the fact that they averaged a 149 on the LSAT.

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jetissent
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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby jetissent » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:42 am

bdm261 wrote:I am trying to find out which law schools people who attended my undergrad tended to get accepted to. Not every law school website offers this information. I scan every view book I get in the mail that lists this data for my school but end up disappointed.

I attend the University of Akron in Akron, OH and so far have only found information that says U of A grads made it to Cleveland State Marshall and University of Akron Law. I'm a little dismayed because my school LSAT average is 149 and am worried that going to Akron tends to keep students out of law school.

Are there any other schools that are very comparable in prestige to University of Akron? I just want to know what law schools people from my type of school make it to.



Most anecdotal evidence would suggest that your UG institution doesn't matter. Get a high GPA and put significant effort into LSAT prep and you'll be set. FWIW I went to a state school that most people haven't heard of and I've had a good cycle. For better or worse, LSAT is intended to present a "fair" assessment of your abilities regardless of the prestige of your UG so rock it and very few schools will care where you spent the last 4 years.

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kwais
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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby kwais » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:43 am

Prestigious UG helps, but unprestigious UG does not shut you out

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby bernaldiaz » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:54 am

kwais wrote:Prestigious UG helps, but unprestigious UG does not shut you out


Define prestigious. Do you think Notre Dame will help?

bdm261
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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby bdm261 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:56 am

Thanks, but why do some schools list which undergraduate institutions are represented and some don't on their websites/view books/literature? I am sure that no matter what, there's always some school that will accept me, I just want to see in general which law schools fellow Akron grads ended up at, it would be great to see if some made it to T1 schools or even top 10.

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Gail
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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby Gail » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:59 am

bernaldiaz wrote:
kwais wrote:Prestigious UG helps, but unprestigious UG does not shut you out


Define prestigious. Do you think Notre Dame will help?


No.

HYP
Stanford
Other ivies.


Everyone else can suck it apparently.


OCI might be a different story though. Not sure about that one. Not many people from my undergrad do LS. So I'll have no connects other than some of the professors I know that teach there and/or know lawyers and have gotten me in touch with them.
Last edited by Gail on Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby rinkrat19 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:00 am

bk1 wrote:The thing that is holding previous grads back is the fact that they averaged a 149 on the LSAT.
+1

It doesn't matter if a 149 LSAT is from Akron or Princeton; they're not getting into a decent law school. It's a freaking 149.
It ALSO doesn't matter if a 170 comes from Akron or Princeton; it's a 170.

Undergrad prestige is a tiebreaker at best in admissions.

<== middling state school grad, T14-bound this fall.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby bernaldiaz » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:03 am

Gail wrote:
bernaldiaz wrote:
kwais wrote:Prestigious UG helps, but unprestigious UG does not shut you out


Define prestigious. Do you think Notre Dame will help?


No.

HYP
Stanford
Other ivies.


Everyone else can suck it apparently.

OCI might be a different story though. Not sure about that one. Not many people from my undergrad do LS. So I'll have no connects other than some of the professors I know that teach there and/or know lawyers and have gotten me in touch with them.



Well I just don't agree with that. No way someone at Cornell would get a bump if I don't. I turned down Cornell and Hopkins, and TONS of kids here turned down Cornell. If its just HYPS, then maybe I could agree with Penn, Columbia, MIT getting a bump as well, but there's such a small difference if any between the bottom ivies and schools like ND, Hopkins, Georgetown.

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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby rcthebigred1 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:10 am

It seems like top liberal arts colleges always get overlooked in this conversation.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby bernaldiaz » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:11 am

rcthebigred1 wrote:It seems like top liberal arts colleges always get overlooked in this conversation.


Good point. Add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore to that list then too. And probably West Point and Annapolis (although for different reasons, obviously).

But still, my point is that Cornell shouldn't get a bump when ND, Georgetown, Hopkins, and Vanderbilt don't.

I'll totally concede that there are 10 or so schools that are objectively in a different tier than those ones I named, but after that it seems crazy for a school to get a bump just because it is an Ivy.

Doesn't each UG keep a list of where the students got in and what their stats were? I'll try to do some digging at ND to see if we are any better than the medians if the data is available.

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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby t14fanboy » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:30 am

bernaldiaz wrote:  
bernaldiaz wrote:
rcthebigred1 wrote:It seems like top liberal arts colleges always get overlooked in this conversation.


Good point. Add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore to that list then too. And probably West Point and Annapolis (although for different reasons, obviously).

But still, my point is that Cornell shouldn't get a bump when ND, Georgetown, Hopkins, and Vanderbilt don't.

I'll totally concede that there are 10 or so schools that are objectively in a different tier than those ones I named, but after that it seems crazy for a school to get a bump just because it is an Ivy.

Doesn't each UG keep a list of where the students got in and what their stats were? I'll try to do some digging at ND to see if we are any better than the medians if the data is available.


Alum of Williams/Amherst/Swarthmore here - my prelaw advisor did indeed have such a list. The data I was shown seemed pretty much in line with what lawschoolnumbers predicts except that it looked like some non-urms were occasionally given a slight boost (i.e. 169, 3.6 kid getting into uva, penn, and duke) but that may be entirely attributable to other factors than school name.

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kwais
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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby kwais » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:43 am

bernaldiaz wrote:
rcthebigred1 wrote:It seems like top liberal arts colleges always get overlooked in this conversation.


Good point. Add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore to that list then too. And probably West Point and Annapolis (although for different reasons, obviously).

But still, my point is that Cornell shouldn't get a bump when ND, Georgetown, Hopkins, and Vanderbilt don't.

I'll totally concede that there are 10 or so schools that are objectively in a different tier than those ones I named, but after that it seems crazy for a school to get a bump just because it is an Ivy.

Doesn't each UG keep a list of where the students got in and what their stats were? I'll try to do some digging at ND to see if we are any better than the medians if the data is available.


Not sure what you are getting at here. We are talking about perceptions. No matter what the reality is, Cornell is certainly perceived as more prestigious than ND. Your having turned down Cornell does not affect that one bit

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby bernaldiaz » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:53 am

kwais wrote:Not sure what you are getting at here. We are talking about perceptions. No matter what the reality is, Cornell is certainly perceived as more prestigious than ND. Your having turned down Cornell does not affect that one bit


I disagree that Cornell is perceived as more prestigious (at least domestically, ND's international reputation is almost non-existent) than ND, but whatever, that's really not the point. I think that to draw the line at like 15 and say yes, those 15 schools get a bump, but the ones that are 16-25 (especially since those schools are of about equal quality, reputation, and selectivity) get nothing is a bit simpleminded. Adcoms at Yale and Harvard aren't going to be tricked by Cornell's label as Ivy.

And yeah, sorry, my point wasn't clear with why I brought up that I turned down Cornell. I went to ND because I thought it was the better school (and that was before I was a biased ND fan). If I felt that way and a lot of family and friends agreed, I don't think it's crazy to say that ND is at least very close to the prestige of Cornell. I actually thought Hopkins was the best school of the bunch, but let other factors lead me to ND.

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jetissent
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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby jetissent » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:35 am

I think debating the UG prestige bump is practically pointless. At the level of HSY, yes going to HYPSM (etc) is going to help you get in because they are selective enough that they can demand excellent LSAT, high GPA, and prestigious UG. *see comments in this year's Yale thread where people discuss the number of ivy undergrads current in the In at Yale 2015 FB group.

However, at CCN and down, I think LSN pretty clearly demonstrates that people with 3.7/170 will not consistently do better than people with 3.8/+170 regardless of either party's UG. There is no evidence that adcoms actually sit down and directly compare similar applications to one another--and even if they did, I'd wager that a HOST of other soft factors would take precedent over UG institution prestige.

To address the OP's original ?, I'd second what others have said and tell you to ask your schools Pre-law adviser. Mine had a list of where every applicant in the last 10 years has gone. It was not a terribly encouraging list but it will probably motivate you to study hard for the LSAT.

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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby PDaddy » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:08 am

bdm261 wrote:I am trying to find out which law schools people who attended my undergrad tended to get accepted to. Not every law school website offers this information. I scan every view book I get in the mail that lists this data for my school but end up disappointed.

I attend the University of Akron in Akron, OH and so far have only found information that says U of A grads made it to Cleveland State Marshall and University of Akron Law. I'm a little dismayed because my school LSAT average is 149 and am worried that going to Akron tends to keep students out of law school.

Are there any other schools that are very comparable in prestige to University of Akron? I just want to know what law schools people from my type of school make it to.


The low average LSAT at Akron should be very good news for you. Use this bit of motivation to your advantage. You will be compared to those other graduates via your LSAT report. If you score well (160+), the adcoms will treat you differently from other students. You'll look like a student who took advantage of his education, or at least tried harder than the other students. The average LSAT at my university was considerably higher...way higher actually...so I made sure I got my score up.

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ilovesf
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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby ilovesf » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:13 am

You might be looking in the wrong place. Maybe you should ask your UG instead. My UG's pre-law center had a list of schools where applicants were admitted and the applicants' stats.
Also, I don't think prestige has that much to do with getting into school. I think it can help for summer positions though. I know in my interviews for my 1L summer the interviewers remarked at my UG and said they were impressed. Also, a judge who shared my UG was particularly friendly because of it. I don't your UG would hurt you though, maybe just a little boost if all other things are equal.
edit: I didn't realize so many people already said ask your UG. ooops.

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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby cylon_clone » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:06 am

Well OP, you hit the nail on the head - graduates average a 149 LSAT. I don't care which school you're coming from, that won't land you anywhere near a t14.

I grew up in Ohio and even though I didn't go to U of A, a couple people from my HS went there. The school won't keep you out of a t14 or t10 law school, your LSAT and/or GPA will. As long as you do well in those things, you have a shot.

Sometimes your pre-law department will have a list of schools that alumni are attending.

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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby akronite08 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:31 pm

I'm sorry to hear you go to UA (born and raised in the city and went there freshman year), but that won't have a major bearing on adcoms' decisions. I attend OU now, and even though it's best known (validly) as a dumb party school, it sends all kinds of majors to respected law schools - one alumnus clerks for the Supreme Court now.

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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby mountaintime » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:48 pm

bernaldiaz wrote:
kwais wrote:Prestigious UG helps, but unprestigious UG does not shut you out


Define prestigious. Do you think Notre Dame will help?

ND will probably help for TTTT and maybe TTT schools, but not for much else.

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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby moneybagsphd » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:01 pm

rcthebigred1 wrote:It seems like top liberal arts colleges always get overlooked in this conversation.

"Public Ivies" also tend to get overlooked.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby bernaldiaz » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:05 pm

moneybagsphd wrote:
rcthebigred1 wrote:It seems like top liberal arts colleges always get overlooked in this conversation.

"Public Ivies" also tend to get overlooked.


No. The best public schools don't even crack the top 20 overall, probably not top 25ish if you count liberal arts schools too. If ND, Gtown, Hopkins et al don't get a boost, there's no way that lower ranked schools like Berkeley, UVa, William and Mary, UNC should get a boost.

I'm comfortable saying that maybe the top 10 (call it Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, MIT, Penn, Columbia, Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, maybe a couple others) get a boost and no one else really does, but there's no way that only those schools, then also a couple random public schools that are way lower ranked also get a boost skipping over 10-15 or so schools that are harder to get into and higher ranked.

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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby justicefishy » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:48 am

bernaldiaz wrote:
moneybagsphd wrote:
rcthebigred1 wrote:It seems like top liberal arts colleges always get overlooked in this conversation.

"Public Ivies" also tend to get overlooked.


No. The best public schools don't even crack the top 20 overall, probably not top 25ish if you count liberal arts schools too. If ND, Gtown, Hopkins et al don't get a boost, there's no way that lower ranked schools like Berkeley, UVa, William and Mary, UNC should get a boost.

I'm comfortable saying that maybe the top 10 (call it Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, MIT, Penn, Columbia, Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, maybe a couple others) get a boost and no one else really does, but there's no way that only those schools, then also a couple random public schools that are way lower ranked also get a boost skipping over 10-15 or so schools that are harder to get into and higher ranked.


I'm pretty sure one of the reasons why I got into the schools I did was that I went to Swarthmore. My GPA is crap (comparatively) otherwise but people know that Swat tends to grade lower. It wasn't the only thing, but I"m sure it did help. :D

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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby PDaddy » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:21 am

bernaldiaz wrote:
No. The best public schools don't even crack the top 20 overall, probably not top 25ish if you count liberal arts schools too. If ND, Gtown, Hopkins et al don't get a boost, there's no way that lower ranked schools like Berkeley, UVa, William and Mary, UNC should get a boost.

I'm comfortable saying that maybe the top 10 (call it Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, MIT, Penn, Columbia, Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, maybe a couple others) get a boost and no one else really does, but there's no way that only those schools, then also a couple random public schools that are way lower ranked also get a boost skipping over 10-15 or so schools that are harder to get into and higher ranked.


What gets missed is that there are only slight differences in quality between the schools that make up the top-60 or so schools. I would feel no better or worse about attending say UC-Davis undergrad versus schools like Emory, Vandy, WUSTL, or Notre Dame. I would be confident that I received as good of an education as anyone at those other schools. The top-20 list is tough to crack because there are so many damned great schools in the U.S. It's almost embarrassing.

If there are rankings someone has to fall in the middle or on the lower end, but that doesn't devalue the education you receive at the lower end schools - especially when you're talking top-60 schools. They're all absolutely outstanding schools, whether public or private. You have to go below the top-120 schools (national and liberal arts) in the U.S. before you can begin to note real differences in education quality available at the schools.
Last edited by PDaddy on Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:27 am, edited 3 times in total.

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Can I find a list of LS that admitted people from my UG?

Postby moneybagsphd » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:22 am

bernaldiaz wrote:No. The best public schools don't even crack the top 20 overall, probably not top 25ish if you count liberal arts schools too. If ND, Gtown, Hopkins et al don't get a boost, there's no way that lower ranked schools like Berkeley, UVa, William and Mary, UNC should get a boost.

I'm comfortable saying that maybe the top 10 (call it Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, MIT, Penn, Columbia, Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, maybe a couple others) get a boost and no one else really does, but there's no way that only those schools, then also a couple random public schools that are way lower ranked also get a boost skipping over 10-15 or so schools that are harder to get into and higher ranked.

This is reeking horse shit. US News Rankings are a lot less authoritative for UG programs than they are for law schools (because enormous public schools can't spend as much per student as small liberal arts schools charging twice as much for tuition).
"Harder to get into"? I loled pretty hard... You look like a tool.




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