0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

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victortsoi
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0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby victortsoi » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:59 pm

As some of you may know from previous posts of mine, I am waiting on replies from schools in the NYC area.
I was a good student in undergrad as a History/Polisci Major/Minor.

The thing is, I am reflecting on my undergrad and believe that I probably was kind of gunnerish, but, since it was UG, I was rewarded for it in various ways. Then again, the types of discussions we had in UG might have even encouraged gunnery.

I don't think I'm a pompous airbag. In UG, I really always tried to make my answers concise if they were too complex, so as not to wax on and annoy people.
How can I make sure to approach law school classes differently? I want to make good answers, but not jerk ones.
How are LS and UG gunnery differentiated? Save an at risk 0L....

handsonthewheel
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby handsonthewheel » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:01 pm

If you're a douche, you'll be a douche. Not much you can do.

Just realize that gunning doesn't mean you'll have the grades, and if you're the gunner with mediocre grades, people are going to seriously not like you.

Only gunners I can deal with are the ones with top grades, because at least they're putting up the numbers (grades).

flcath
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby flcath » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:02 pm

Limit yourself to one in-class participation per day.

Ask questions, don't just raise your hand to air your [stupid fucking] opinions.

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DreamsInDigital
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby DreamsInDigital » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:25 pm

I hate the term gunner because it implies there is something wrong with striving to do your best and understand the material.

I agree that you shouldn't just raise your hand to make irrelevant comments, but if what works best for you and helps you understand the material is participating in class (asking relevant questions, answering when no one else is to move the class along) then do your thing.

In terms of just how much I speak during class, I could easily be called a gunner. I truly believe that my participation doesn't slow the class down and if anything actually helps the discussion. But even if that wasn't the case, I would keep doing what I'm doing because I know it worked for me first semester.

sven
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby sven » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:32 pm

.
Last edited by sven on Thu May 03, 2012 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

mighttransfer
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby mighttransfer » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:39 pm

Just don't be a douche and you'll be fine. Here are a few signs that you're being a douche: (1) asking irrelevant questions; (2) asking questions regarding tangential points that are clearly not important; (3) asking questions concerning absurd hypothetical facts that you've created; etc. Also, be conscious of the tone in which you speak. And don't purport to act like you know anything.

Also, as the above-poster mentioned, watch for how your classmates react to your comments. This will provide a general insight as to how your remarks are regarded by your peers. If you continue to raise your hand and your professor ignores you, that is also a sign that you're a douche.

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BEAST_mode
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby BEAST_mode » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:44 pm

This advice may be easier to heed if you just keep in mind that top 10%, LR, and a V5 SA don't mean shit when you don't have any friends.

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Cupidity
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby Cupidity » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:47 pm

Just keep your mouth shut. Whatever you think is worthless to all of us. Remember that, and you will not be a gunner.

Volake
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby Volake » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:14 pm

I find it quite uncharitable that the impulse to contribute one's own insight to class or clarify matters is being characterized as "douchey." Perhaps one needs to curb back on one's remarks, or use more discretion, but I bet that, in most cases, this desire doesn't come from douchiness, but from a genuine excitement and interest in the material. I feel bad for whoever's experience leads them to think that wanting to contribute in class is inherently a bad thing.
Last edited by Volake on Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:17 pm

It's fine to ask or respond to questions occasionally. Some profs reserve the right to add 10% to your grade for class participation. Try to remember that your classmates are not paying to be taught by you.

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padawanphil
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby padawanphil » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:17 pm

Volake wrote:I find it quite uncharitable that the impulse to contribute one's own insight to class or clarify matters is being characterized as "douchey." Perhaps one needs to curb back on one's remarks, or use more discretion, but I bet that most of this desire doesn't come from douchiness, but from a genuine excitement and interest in the material. I feel bad for whoever's experience leads them to think that wanting to contribute in class is inherently a bad thing.


you're not getting it

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splitbrain
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby splitbrain » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:21 pm

mighttransfer wrote:Just don't be a douche and you'll be fine. Here are a few signs that you're being a douche: (1) asking irrelevant questions; (2) asking questions regarding tangential points that are clearly not important; (3) asking questions concerning absurd hypothetical facts that you've created; etc. Also, be conscious of the tone in which you speak. And don't purport to act like you know anything.

Also, as the above-poster mentioned, watch for how your classmates react to your comments. This will provide a general insight as to how your remarks are regarded by your peers. If you continue to raise your hand and your professor ignores you, that is also a sign that you're a douche.


TCR

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spleenworship
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby spleenworship » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:26 pm

Answer when called on: short, sweet, and to the point. Answer when you can't stand the gunners and idiots in the class wasting your time anymore: hand up, answer shorter, sweeter, and nearly monosyballic. Ie: "because of the 4th amendment." nothing more.

shoeshine
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby shoeshine » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:28 pm

Gunners don't worry about being gunners.

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BEAST_mode
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby BEAST_mode » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:26 pm

Volake wrote:I find it quite uncharitable that the impulse to contribute one's own insight to class or clarify matters is being characterized as "douchey." Perhaps one needs to curb back on one's remarks, or use more discretion, but I bet that most of this desire doesn't come from douchiness, but from a genuine excitement and interest in the material. I feel bad for whoever's experience leads them to think that wanting to contribute in class is inherently a bad thing.


Too easy.

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yngblkgifted
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby yngblkgifted » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:29 pm

Cupidity wrote:Just keep your mouth shut. Whatever you think is worthless to all of us. Remember that, and you will not be a gunner.


+1

Blind grading dude blind grading.

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LeDique
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby LeDique » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:34 pm

shoeshine wrote:Gunners don't worry about being gunners.


Came here to say this.

TB12
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby TB12 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:41 pm

Volake wrote:I find it quite uncharitable that the impulse to contribute one's own insight to class or clarify matters is being characterized as "douchey." Perhaps one needs to curb back on one's remarks, or use more discretion, but I bet that most of this desire doesn't come from douchiness, but from a genuine excitement and interest in the material. I feel bad for whoever's experience leads them to think that wanting to contribute in class is inherently a bad thing.


0L. You never sat through an entire year of hearing the three same people raise their hand every class, act like they're smarter than everyone, and argue with the prof for no other reason than just wanting to be right.

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ben4847
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby ben4847 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:46 pm

If you are posting this, you will be a gunner.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby Bildungsroman » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:50 pm

Just don't raise your hand unless the professor is clearly looking for someone to raise their hand and he won't move on until someone does. And even then, only raise your hand when you think it'll move the class along, not because you want to add an anecdote about your parents' careers, or your pre-law-school research (I don't give a shit if it's relevant experience), or disagree with the professor, etc. The key to avoiding gunnerdom is to understand that you have nothing of value to add and that nobody wants to listen to your voice.

Don't worry about seeming gunnery if you get cold called. Just pay attention to what you're saying and be willing to concede to the professor instead of arguing every little thing, and don't assume every question is a trick. Really your goal in law school should be: be silent, and when that's not possible be brief.

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cinephile
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby cinephile » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:58 pm

Don't worry about it. All you need is a little self-awareness, which it seems you have.

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Naked Dude
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby Naked Dude » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:18 pm

victortsoi wrote:As some of you may know from previous posts of mine, I am waiting on replies from schools in the NYC area.
I was a good student in undergrad as a History/Polisci Major/Minor.

The thing is, I am reflecting on my undergrad and believe that I probably was kind of gunnerish, but, since it was UG, I was rewarded for it in various ways. Then again, the types of discussions we had in UG might have even encouraged gunnery.

I don't think I'm a pompous airbag. In UG, I really always tried to make my answers concise if they were too complex, so as not to wax on and annoy people.
How can I make sure to approach law school classes differently? I want to make good answers, but not jerk ones.
How are LS and UG gunnery differentiated? Save an at risk 0L....


Just don't be a douche. Raise your hand if you have something to say that contributes to the class discussion, if the professor asks. Make concision a priority. If you want to be a gasbag and impress the professor, go to office hours instead of derailing a lecture.

That's it. Nothing wrong with a student who's done the reading making a brief comment every so often. If you're worried about what people think, screw em. Some people at my school labeled gunners deserve the title, some don't. A lot of people seem to conflate working hard and participating with "gunnering." Ignore them. Just refrain from being a douchebag.

rad lulz
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby rad lulz » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:19 pm

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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3|ink
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby 3|ink » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:38 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:Just don't raise your hand unless the professor is clearly looking for someone to raise their hand and he won't move on until someone does.

Ah shit.

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Cupidity
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Re: 0L worried that I will become a gunner :(

Postby Cupidity » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:47 pm

3|ink wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:Just don't raise your hand unless the professor is clearly looking for someone to raise their hand and he won't move on until someone does.

Ah shit.


That still makes you a gunner. Don't participate unless called on ever.




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