JD in one school, PhD in another?

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leftbrainrightbrain
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JD in one school, PhD in another?

Postby leftbrainrightbrain » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:02 pm

JD/PhD. Feared words, but I think they fit up my alley. My field of interest for my PhD is bioethics and health policy. But alas, the law school of my dreams, a west coast beauty, has a non-existent program in my PhD field. Both schools are on opposite coasts.

A few points:

1) Due to my extremely limited financial resources, I simply cannot do the JD by itself. It helps that I also don't *want* to do the JD by itself. My ultimate interest is teaching in academia. At this point, you might think, "Why don't you scrap the JD and do the PhD by itself?" However, I have gone some ways down the academia route before [in biochemistry]. Despite success in my research field, I realised after two years that while I love biosciences, I don't want to be tied down to the lab. Along with that, I don't enjoy how esoteric and disconnected academia becomes [let alone the publish-or-perish mentality that persists]. However, social science programs simply don't demand the same sort of logical thinking and intricate problem solving that I do enjoy. Law seems to do that. This is about the point I got on the JD train.

2) All the universities I am talking about are in the T14. One question might be, "Why don't you just go to law school where your PhD program of interest is?" The reason I don't want to do this is because most of the students I've met at this east coast law school seem to be either cutthroat, douches, or gung-ho on becoming lawyers [I did my biochemistry at this school]. I prefer the atmosphere at my west coast beauty when it comes to law school.

Perhaps I'm being finicky, but I'm also not coming straight out of undergrad. I have done research, had a fellowship at the NIH, and have tried a few avenues. I've also had a interesting fight with breast cancer [apparently, not just for older women!]. At this point, I want to do something that challenges me and makes me happy. I'm not after initials. I'm not after degrees. I definitely don't want to argue in court all day and night.

I'd appreciate almost any and all opinions on this. If you have suggestions on other courses or some qualifications for my points above, I'd appreciate your explanations as well. If you any suggestions on how to subdise a law school education, I will be happy to give you my phone number/email/Google Voice number/Skype so that you can contact me any which way and give me that information :)

Thanks!

mrloblaw
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Re: JD in one school, PhD in another?

Postby mrloblaw » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:23 pm

If you don't want to spend 60+ hours per week practicing law, please don't waste time and money on law school. It is cutthroat, the people are douchey, and you truly don't learn anything that couldn't be acquired from three years googling/wiki'ing legal terms. It isn't remotely intellectually fulfilling, and the coursework couldn't possibly be more Ivory Tower, disjointed from the actual practice of law nonsense.

If you want to actually do the bioethics thing as a practicing attorney somehow, law school is obviously a must, but understand that even at the most elite schools, you're going to feel like you've been shoved back into a kindergarten curriculum.

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mattviphky
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Re: JD in one school, PhD in another?

Postby mattviphky » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:33 pm

mrloblaw wrote:If you don't want to spend 60+ hours per week practicing law, please don't waste time and money on law school. It is cutthroat, the people are douchey, and you truly don't learn anything that couldn't be acquired from three years googling/wiki'ing legal terms. It isn't remotely intellectually fulfilling, and the coursework couldn't possibly be more Ivory Tower, disjointed from the actual practice of law nonsense.

If you want to actually do the bioethics thing as a practicing attorney somehow, law school is obviously a must, but understand that even at the most elite schools, you're going to feel like you've been shoved back into a kindergarten curriculum.


i think she is asking more about a legal career and not about the 3 years of law school.

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paratactical
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Re: JD in one school, PhD in another?

Postby paratactical » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:49 pm

Wait...

So what kind of career are you shooting for? Are you talking about teaching law?

mrloblaw
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Re: JD in one school, PhD in another?

Postby mrloblaw » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:54 pm

mattviphky wrote:
mrloblaw wrote:If you don't want to spend 60+ hours per week practicing law, please don't waste time and money on law school. It is cutthroat, the people are douchey, and you truly don't learn anything that couldn't be acquired from three years googling/wiki'ing legal terms. It isn't remotely intellectually fulfilling, and the coursework couldn't possibly be more Ivory Tower, disjointed from the actual practice of law nonsense.

If you want to actually do the bioethics thing as a practicing attorney somehow, law school is obviously a must, but understand that even at the most elite schools, you're going to feel like you've been shoved back into a kindergarten curriculum.


i think she is asking more about a legal career and not about the 3 years of law school.


You could be right. I assumed her goal was ending up in academia, whether or not it meant legal academia. Unless you're talking about a (near?) full ride to a T-14, I don't see how a JD or JD/PhD could be better than just a PhD in those circumstances. Sure, you have a fallback if you can't immediately get into the academy, but at a very high cost (tuition + lost opportunity costs).

edit: I just reread my first post. Holy crap, have I become areyouinsane?

theabsolutetruth
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Re: JD in one school, PhD in another?

Postby theabsolutetruth » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:25 pm

People, PLEASE READ THIS MESSAGE CAREFULLY!
A "Doctorate" is ONLY a Ph.D. (Doctor of Philosophy) degree, which is the highest ACADEMIC degree in the world (if granted by a fully-accredited academic National University in the USA). It is the certification of a Professional Researcher and Scholar in ANY field of study. The individual decides in which field of study to write their Dissertation document, in order to demonstrate skills as a Professional Researcher and Scholar, not to become an "expert" in that particular field of study. The Dissertation Committee for the Ph.D. degree is comprised of only other persons who hold the Ph.D. degree. The Commencement collar collar for the Ph.D. is dark navy blue, and ALL persons who hold the Ph.D. degree wear ONLY that color, no matter in which field they wrote their Dissertation.

The "JD" degree, although the name was changed in the 1960s for lawyers to try to get more money like the "MD" holders, is categorized as a FIRST PROFESSIONAL (entry-level) "DoctorAL" degree, just like the MD. It is granted by a "School of Law," which, like all "Schools of ____" are VOCATIONAL TRACK training programs, and NOT ACADEMIC PROGRAMS OF STUDY. The graduation collar color for the "JD" is PURPLE, not dark navy blue, and that degree is the ENTRY -LEVEL degree to the practice of Law. The original (and real) name for the "JD" degree is the "LLB" (Nonacademic Bachelor of Laws). The degree above the "JD" (LLB) is the LLM - Master of Laws. And the TRUE "DOCTORAL" degree in Law is the SJD or DSJ (Doctor of Jurisprudence), the highest NON-academic degree granted in the Legal Profession, holding a lower status (as does the Ed.D. and other DOCTORAL degrees from "Schools of_____" than the Academic Doctor of Philosophy -- Ph.D. -- degree.

Yes, there was a very stupid announcement many years ago by the American Bar Association that the "JD" was supposed to be (according to them) "equal to" the Ph.D. degree BUT ONLY FOR THE PURPOSES OF BEING HIRED AS A LAW SCHOOL PROFESSOR, and not for anything else.

If you are planning to get a "JD" degree, go ahead, and if you wish to thereafter go up the Vocational "Professional" Track in your education in the field of Law, then get your LLM, and after that, get your SJD or DSJ. But after all of that, and the expenses involved, you will still NOT have the "equivalent" to a Ph.D. degree -- because there is no "equivalent" to the Ph.D. degree -- the highest academic degree in the world.

In addition, even though the "Schools of ____" often fraudulently use the "Ph.D. robes and regalia" for their Commencement Ceremonies, and even though they "number" their courses at a usually higher than Ph.D.-level "numbering system," and even though they charge huge amounts of money for their classes -- REMEMBER THIS -- A "SCHOOL OF LAW" OR ANY "SCHOOL OF" IS A VOCATIONAL TRACK "PRACTICE TRAINING FOR A JOB" PROGRAM OF STUDIES AND NOT AN ACADEMIC PROGRAM OF STUDIES. The JD, LLM, and SJD/DSJ degrees are NOT granted under the regulations of a University, even if located on a University's property (usually to share library facilities and to get higher "status"). The degrees from "Schools of ____" are granted according to regulations established by Professional Associations, such as the American Bar Association. So, they can charge whatever they want, number their courses however they want, and use whatever "commencement regalia" they want, as they are, once again, NOT ACADEMIC PROGRAMS OF STUDY, AND NOT SUBJECT TO ACADEMIC UNIVERSITY REGULATIONS.

Think carefully as to what you want to do with your life. If you want to go into an ACADEMIC program of studies, those are ONLY the Bachelor of Arts (B.A.), Bachelor of Science (B.S.), Master of Arts (M.A.), Master of Science (M.S.), and Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) degrees.

And, remember, the Academic degrees are NOT ADDITIVE with a Vocational/Professional Track degree. If you have an Academic Bachelor of Arts (B.A.) AND a Juris Doctor (J.D.), then all you REALLY have is the lowest-level Academic degree on the Academic Track, plus the lowest-level , entry-level degree on the Vocational/Professional Track -- WHICH STILL DOES NOT EQUAL THE LEVEL OF EITHER THE Master of Arts (MA) or Master of Science (MS), AND IT DOES NOT EQUAL THE LLM from a "School of Law" either.

Sincerely,
An author who holds--in actual order of ranking, according to the regulations of the United States College Board-- AA, AS, JD, BA, BS, MS and Ph.D. degrees (all fully-accredited).

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Ludo!
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Re: JD in one school, PhD in another?

Postby Ludo! » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:37 pm

This looks like spam but I can't figure out what you're selling. I've seen some weird thread necros today but this just might be the weirdest

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vpintz
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Re: JD in one school, PhD in another?

Postby vpintz » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:57 pm

Ludovico Technique wrote:This looks like spam but I can't figure out what you're selling. I've seen some weird thread necros today but this just might be the weirdest

this. what the fuck did I just read.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: JD in one school, PhD in another?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:58 pm

Ludovico Technique wrote:This looks like spam but I can't figure out what you're selling. I've seen some weird thread necros today but this just might be the weirdest


THEABSOLUTETRUTH!

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IAFG
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Re: JD in one school, PhD in another?

Postby IAFG » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:03 pm

theabsolutetruth wrote:The original (and real) name for the "JD" degree is the "LLB" (Nonacademic Bachelor of Laws).

wat

Renzo
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Re: JD in one school, PhD in another?

Postby Renzo » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:16 pm

Ludovico Technique wrote:This looks like spam but I can't figure out what you're selling. I've seen some weird thread necros today but this just might be the weirdest


You read my mind. I just don't know what to do with this poast. But I'll say IBTB, just in case.

hamsamitchguy03
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Re: JD in one school, PhD in another?

Postby hamsamitchguy03 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:15 pm

edited for brevity
Last edited by hamsamitchguy03 on Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

bdubs
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Re: JD in one school, PhD in another?

Postby bdubs » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:20 pm

You really hate Penn Law that much? I would say you should suck it up. If you don't like your law school classmates then you don't have to hang out with them much. I am sure you can find a small group that you get along with to do things like study group or have some social connection to the student body. The hassles of splitting up your degrees will not be worth it. Penn also has a number of law school profs who are interested in this field already (my crim professor is leaving to join the Penn faculty in a related area).

Stanford is great, but it's just not that great.

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Grond
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Re: JD in one school, PhD in another?

Postby Grond » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:22 pm

To be fair, everything he wrote is true. I saw a (shorter and funnier) version of this in a listing for a crim justice UG prof position awhile ago. He mad, though.




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