T6

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IAFG
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Re: T6

Postby IAFG » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:21 am

birdlaw117 wrote:And NYU is between CC and MVP, idk which it's necessarily closer to though.

based on what (for both that it's under CC and over MVP)?

kaiser
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Re: T6

Postby kaiser » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:23 am

IAFG wrote:
birdlaw117 wrote:And NYU is between CC and MVP, idk which it's necessarily closer to though.

based on what (for both that it's under CC and over MVP)?


Search function. 80,000 discussions on this already

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IAFG
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Re: T6

Postby IAFG » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:25 am

kaiser wrote:
IAFG wrote:
birdlaw117 wrote:And NYU is between CC and MVP, idk which it's necessarily closer to though.

based on what (for both that it's under CC and over MVP)?


Search function. 80,000 discussions on this already

And I obviously don't agree with his conclusion so I would like to know what he's relying on.

kaiser
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Re: T6

Postby kaiser » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:28 am

IAFG wrote:
kaiser wrote:
IAFG wrote:
birdlaw117 wrote:And NYU is between CC and MVP, idk which it's necessarily closer to though.

based on what (for both that it's under CC and over MVP)?


Search function. 80,000 discussions on this already

And I obviously don't agree with his conclusion so I would like to know what he's relying on.


Seems like the most reasonable conclusion though. On one side you have your people who say that CCN are one exclusive group that is on a "tier" above the schools below it, which seems a bit extreme. On the other hand, and I've had many attorneys say this, that the Top 10 schools are pretty much interchangeable with the exception of Harvard & Yale (were talking east-coasters so Stanford almost never comes up). I think that is a bit extreme in the other direction. Middleground sounds about right.

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Re: T6

Postby snehpets » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:39 am

TaipeiMort wrote:T5 is established. NYU is no different than Penn or Cornell, save for its strong placement in the largest legal market.

The only reason there is a T6 distinction is because Chicago refused to adjust its per-student spending calculated for US News until two years ago to be in line with its piers.

I think NYU is a better deal than most of the T14s because the NYC market is so big.


You're absurd about Chicago.

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birdlaw117
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Re: T6

Postby birdlaw117 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:53 am

IAFG wrote:
birdlaw117 wrote:And NYU is between CC and MVP, idk which it's necessarily closer to though.

based on what (for both that it's under CC and over MVP)?

I'm not really sure of very many metrics that would disagree with that, so I guess I'm curious as to why you think otherwise. NYU has a clear advantage in NYC (vs. MVP) but is pretty comparable to MVP elsewhere.

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Addy
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Re: T6

Postby Addy » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:25 pm

Seems to me that the buzz words on TLS are: HYS, T-6, T-14 and Ivy.

Out of curiosity, if the next rankings move either Penn or Mich (both #7) into the T6, is that T-6 ranking significant? If so, why? I have always thought that the elite schools were broken into two groups, HYS and T-14. I have never understood the rationale of adding T-6 into the mix (as opposed to T-7, T10, etc.).

Given that UCB was #6 two years ago and today it is #9, the rankings obviously do change, but does this movement (up or down) have a meaningful bearing on their status to prospective employers?

kaiser
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Re: T6

Postby kaiser » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:38 pm

Addy wrote:Seems to me that the buzz words on TLS are: HYS, T-6, T-14 and Ivy.

Out of curiosity, if the next rankings move either Penn or Mich (both #7) into the T6, is that T-6 ranking significant? If so, why? I have always thought that the elite schools were broken into two groups, HYS and T-14. I have never understood the rationale of adding T-6 into the mix (as opposed to T-7, T10, etc.).

Given that UCB was #6 two years ago and today it is #9, the rankings obviously do change, but does this movement (up or down) have a meaningful bearing on their status to prospective employers?


I agree with this, and it seems like most lawyers I speak do agree as well. They of course put Harvard and Yale on a pedestal, but see the rest of the top 10 as essentially interchangeable with preferences based on geography. The inane process of splitting hairs and trying to "rank" every school with "tiers" among top 10 schools really just stems from out incessant need to try and say we are better than so and so.

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Re: T6

Postby funkmasta » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:56 pm

kaiser wrote:I agree with this, and it seems like most lawyers I speak do agree as well. They of course put Harvard and Yale on a pedestal, but see the rest of the top 10 as essentially interchangeable with preferences based on geography. The inane process of splitting hairs and trying to "rank" every school with "tiers" among top 10 schools really just stems from out incessant need to try and say we are better than so and so.


Would you say that this is true for schools within the same state? For example, does Chicago=Northwestern, or Columbia/NYU=Cornell? It seems that the 6/14 distinction is most relevant for schools competing for a major market, where there seems, at least to me, marked differences between the best (in NY's case, best two) and the runner-up law schools, even when they are both in the T14.

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Re: T6

Postby JDizzle2015 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:57 pm

Addy wrote:Seems to me that the buzz words on TLS are: HYS, T-6, T-14 and Ivy.

Out of curiosity, if the next rankings move either Penn or Mich (both #7) into the T6, is that T-6 ranking significant? If so, why? I have always thought that the elite schools were broken into two groups, HYS and T-14. I have never understood the rationale of adding T-6 into the mix (as opposed to T-7, T10, etc.).

Given that UCB was #6 two years ago and today it is #9, the rankings obviously do change, but does this movement (up or down) have a meaningful bearing on their status to prospective employers?

Also agreed. The perception during recruiting season at the firm I'm at now: HYS -> T14 -> strong regionals -> T1 -> TTT.

Disclaimer: I might be a little biased since I'm likely going to Mich, but I really do think those categories are how the partners at my firm look at law school grads.

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Grizz
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Re: T6

Postby Grizz » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:57 pm

Greetings,

OP I applaud you. This topic has gone undiscussed in the annals of TLS and your thread has added new and interesting material to the community as a whole.

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kwais
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Re: T6

Postby kwais » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:00 pm

Grizz wrote:Greetings,

OP I applaud you. This topic has gone undiscussed in the annals of TLS and your thread has added new and interesting material to the community as a whole.


Grizz, for all of your whining about redundancy on TLS, you are the most redundant poster around. Do these conversations really take up needed space in your life? Y u always crying?

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Grizz
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Re: T6

Postby Grizz » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:02 pm

kwais wrote:
Grizz wrote:Greetings,

OP I applaud you. This topic has gone undiscussed in the annals of TLS and your thread has added new and interesting material to the community as a whole.


Grizz, for all of your whining about redundancy on TLS, you are the most redundant poster around. Do these conversations really take up needed space in your life? Y u always crying?

Image

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kwais
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Re: T6

Postby kwais » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:03 pm

Grizz wrote:
kwais wrote:
Grizz wrote:Greetings,

OP I applaud you. This topic has gone undiscussed in the annals of TLS and your thread has added new and interesting material to the community as a whole.


Grizz, for all of your whining about redundancy on TLS, you are the most redundant poster around. Do these conversations really take up needed space in your life? Y u always crying?

Image


lookin good

kaiser
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Re: T6

Postby kaiser » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:12 pm

Grizz wrote:
kwais wrote:
Grizz wrote:Greetings,

OP I applaud you. This topic has gone undiscussed in the annals of TLS and your thread has added new and interesting material to the community as a whole.


Grizz, for all of your whining about redundancy on TLS, you are the most redundant poster around. Do these conversations really take up needed space in your life? Y u always crying?

Image


I know a slightly less cute version of that chick. Tried to bone her, but she had a "boyfriend" that I'm pretty sure was fictional

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kwais
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Re: T6

Postby kwais » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:13 pm

kaiser wrote:
Grizz wrote:
kwais wrote:
Grizz wrote:Greetings,

OP I applaud you. This topic has gone undiscussed in the annals of TLS and your thread has added new and interesting material to the community as a whole.


Grizz, for all of your whining about redundancy on TLS, you are the most redundant poster around. Do these conversations really take up needed space in your life? Y u always crying?

Image


I know a slightly less cute version of that chick. Tried to bone her, but she had a "boyfriend" that I'm pretty sure was fictional


a slightly less attractive version of this girl is still a 10er. At least you made the effort

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Grizz
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Re: T6

Postby Grizz » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:16 pm

kwais wrote:a slightly less attractive version of this girl is still a 10er.


lolno

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Re: T6

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:16 pm

I don't understand why Cornell doesn't seem to be getting much love. If you averaged big law placement among the schools outside HYS over the last 4-5 years, Cornell would be in the top 3 (even with its one bad year). Anyone who would claim that Cornell is inferior to MVPB or even N may be relying too much on US News rankings.

True, NYU is actually in NYC, and that fact would help if you wanted to work in NYC. But if you can get into NYU, you will have at least $10-20K a year scholarship at Cornell - and that would make Cornell a much better deal (especially after COL), as the odds of big law are the same.

Kaiser, you get a P (pass) simply for trying.

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eandy
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Re: T6

Postby eandy » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:20 pm

Grizz wrote:
kwais wrote:a slightly less attractive version of this girl is still a 10er.


lolno

IBpointyelbows

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TaipeiMort
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Re: T6

Postby TaipeiMort » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:19 pm

birdlaw117 wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:
chimp wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:T5 is established. NYU is no different than Penn or Cornell, save for its strong placement in the largest legal market.

The only reason there is a T6 distinction is because Chicago refused to adjust its per-student spending calculated for US News until two years ago to be in line with its piers.

I think NYU is a better deal than most of the T14s because the NYC market is so big.


--ImageRemoved--


Dude. I was typing on my cell phone, which corrects everything incorrectly.

And to that other person trying to claim that Columbia and Chicago are closer to NYU: You are a liar.

Okay, iPhone corrects based on letter proximity, not homonyms. You screwed up. It was funny. No big deal. You don't have to make up excuses.

And NYU is between CC and MVP, idk which it's necessarily closer to though.


Obviously you haven't had the joyful experience of a Droid Razor, which corrects to weird words, is missing common words in its dictionary, and therefore makes typing fast impossible.

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Helmholtz
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Re: T6

Postby Helmholtz » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:45 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:I don't understand why Cornell doesn't seem to be getting much love. If you averaged big law placement among the schools outside HYS over the last 4-5 years, Cornell would be in the top 3 (even with its one bad year). Anyone who would claim that Cornell is inferior to MVPB or even N may be relying too much on US News rankings.


Last four years averaged:

Columbia (63.7%)
Chicago (63.4%)
Penn (60.2%)
Northwestern (59.2%)
NYU (57.9%)
Cornell (56.0%)
Harvard (54.0%)
Virginia (53.7%)
Berkeley (53.0%)
Duke (52.2%)
Michigan (51.2%)
Stanford (50.9%)
GULC (44.5%)
Vanderbilt (40.5%)
USC (40.3%)
UCLA (38.1%)
Boston (37.3%)
GWU (34.9%)

"If you averaged big law placement among the schools outside HYS over the last 4-5 years, Cornell would be in the top 3 (even with its one bad year)" So no. And once you figure out how low Cornell's placement is into things like clerkships and academia, Cornell's situation starts to look a lot bleaker.

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chup
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Re: T6

Postby chup » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:02 pm

kwais wrote:
Grizz wrote:Greetings,

OP I applaud you. This topic has gone undiscussed in the annals of TLS and your thread has added new and interesting material to the community as a whole.


Grizz, for all of your whining about redundancy on TLS, you are the most redundant poster around. Do these conversations really take up needed space in your life? Y u always crying?

Someone has to remind people of their idiocy. I view what Grizz does as a public service.

jellybean8
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Re: T6

Postby jellybean8 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:13 pm

chup wrote:
kwais wrote:
Grizz wrote:Greetings,

OP I applaud you. This topic has gone undiscussed in the annals of TLS and your thread has added new and interesting material to the community as a whole.


Grizz, for all of your whining about redundancy on TLS, you are the most redundant poster around. Do these conversations really take up needed space in your life? Y u always crying?

Someone has to remind people of their idiocy. I view what Grizz does as a public service.


Sorry, but I disagree that my post was idiotic. I also disagree that this topic has been heavily discussed. I merely wanted insight as to why there seemed to be an arbitrary distinction of a "T6".

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IAFG
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Re: T6

Postby IAFG » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:22 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:I don't understand why Cornell doesn't seem to be getting much love. If you averaged big law placement among the schools outside HYS over the last 4-5 years, Cornell would be in the top 3 (even with its one bad year). Anyone who would claim that Cornell is inferior to MVPB or even N may be relying too much on US News rankings.


Last four years averaged:

Columbia (63.7%)
Chicago (63.4%)
Penn (60.2%)
Northwestern (59.2%)
NYU (57.9%)
Cornell (56.0%)
Harvard (54.0%)
Virginia (53.7%)
Berkeley (53.0%)
Duke (52.2%)
Michigan (51.2%)
Stanford (50.9%)
GULC (44.5%)
Vanderbilt (40.5%)
USC (40.3%)
UCLA (38.1%)
Boston (37.3%)
GWU (34.9%)

"If you averaged big law placement among the schools outside HYS over the last 4-5 years, Cornell would be in the top 3 (even with its one bad year)" So no. And once you figure out how low Cornell's placement is into things like clerkships and academia, Cornell's situation starts to look a lot bleaker.

Thanks for assembling that. Way more useful than any recent year alone.

Renzo
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Re: T6

Postby Renzo » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:29 pm

jellybean8 wrote: I also disagree that this topic has been heavily discussed.


I choked when I read this. Nice work.




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