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funkmasta
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby funkmasta » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:28 pm

My question: let's grant that the semester of F's wasn't representative. Isn't OP's original 3.0/173 already a stretch for all but the bottom of the T14, HYPS undergrad notwithstanding?

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TommyK
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby TommyK » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:42 pm

funkmasta wrote:My question: let's grant that the semester of F's wasn't representative. Isn't OP's original 3.0/173 already a stretch for all but the bottom of the T14, HYPS undergrad notwithstanding?


yes, funkmasta, but you're overlooking the fact that OP is a special unique snowflake and programs should realize that and accept him based on the criteria that he feels best represents him.

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JoeMo
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby JoeMo » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:44 pm

TommyK wrote:
funkmasta wrote:My question: let's grant that the semester of F's wasn't representative. Isn't OP's original 3.0/173 already a stretch for all but the bottom of the T14, HYPS undergrad notwithstanding?


yes, funkmasta, but you're overlooking the fact that OP is a special unique snowflake and programs should realize that and accept him based on the criteria that he feels best represents him.


I'm still trying to figure out why you drop one semester and get all F's just to go another semester? Also, does one think that it then becomes easier to maintain a good GPA in Law School?

09042014
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby 09042014 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:49 pm

ladybug89 wrote:
Campagnolo wrote:
spinsrap wrote:
Campagnolo wrote:After you receive a bachelors degree, you cannot add extra classes to affect your GPA. Sorry, champ.


Beautiful, that's what I was looking for. So taking classes can hurt me at all either, correct? As in, they're not going to look at this (or see it at all) and see that I went from somewhere strong to tooling around at an extension in my free time, yes?


Somehow I doubt fooling around in extension school is a bad thing. Spin it as intellectual curiosity.

Oh, and stop with the HYP undergrad thing. It makes you sound foolish, especially because, for law schools, a GPA is a GPA is a GPA. Just trying to help.


This is just wrong. For better or for worse (honestly, probably for worse), going to HYPS is a boost. (People on TLS like to say no, people from those schools have better softs, are more interesting etc etc. This is occasionally true, but not always. Sometimes, it's just the UG.)


Depending on how low his GPA is, and how challenging his program is, it might not matter. Nobody is impressed with a sub 3 gpa from anywhere. HY are definitely known for grade inflation. You gotta try to get lower than a B.

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JoeMo
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby JoeMo » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:51 pm

Desert Fox wrote:[
Depending on how low his GPA is, and how challenging his program is, it might not matter. Nobody is impressed with a sub 3 gpa from anywhere. HY are definitely known for grade inflation. You gotta try to get lower than a B.


Hello.... have you not been reading? It's those 7 F's one got because one wanted to spend an extra semester at HYP. DUH!

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drdolittle
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby drdolittle » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:05 pm

TommyK wrote:But, I'll go for broke now - The thing is: you come off as a self-entitled prick. Who cares what ivy league school you almost flunked out of?

:lol:
Evidently those who graduated from HYP, even if just barely, care very much. I suppose it is better than doing as poorly at lower profile schools, just not as far as law schools are concerned.

03121202698008
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:11 pm

TommyK wrote:
funkmasta wrote:My question: let's grant that the semester of F's wasn't representative. Isn't OP's original 3.0/173 already a stretch for all but the bottom of the T14, HYPS undergrad notwithstanding?


yes, funkmasta, but you're overlooking the fact that OP is a special unique snowflake and programs should realize that and accept him based on the criteria that he feels best represents him.


How is a 2.3 (or 3.0 for that matter) even possible at an ivy. Don't they inflate grades ridiculously?

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rinkrat19
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:14 pm

Entitled douchery aside, I don't understand why OP "had" to flunk those classes to stay an extra term. Unless HYP operate on some totally different planet than other schools, couldn't OP just sign up for some classes and pay his bill to stay? Are HYP really so reluctant to accept more money from people who want to pay them?

If it was a matter of making sure he hadn't completed the graduation requirements, why not just drop ONE required class? Purposely failing an entire term's worth of classes beyond retarded.

09042014
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby 09042014 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:55 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:Entitled douchery aside, I don't understand why OP "had" to flunk those classes to stay an extra term. Unless HYP operate on some totally different planet than other schools, couldn't OP just sign up for some classes and pay his bill to stay? Are HYP really so reluctant to accept more money from people who want to pay them?

If it was a matter of making sure he hadn't completed the graduation requirements, why not just drop ONE required class? Purposely failing an entire term's worth of classes beyond retarded.


It's definitely not believable even it if is true. If I were an adcom, I wouldn't believe it.

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ladybug89
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby ladybug89 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:36 pm

I think it probably would have been possible, but they do give you a hard time if there's not a grade/credit related reason to keep on. idk why, you'd think they'd want the money.

WSJ_Law
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby WSJ_Law » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:59 am

Lol just lol at this imbecile with a 2.3. Enjoy iub

spinsrap
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby spinsrap » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:33 am

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Last edited by spinsrap on Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

spinsrap
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby spinsrap » Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:13 am

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Last edited by spinsrap on Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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20130312
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby 20130312 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:58 am

blowhard wrote:
TommyK wrote:
funkmasta wrote:My question: let's grant that the semester of F's wasn't representative. Isn't OP's original 3.0/173 already a stretch for all but the bottom of the T14, HYPS undergrad notwithstanding?


yes, funkmasta, but you're overlooking the fact that OP is a special unique snowflake and programs should realize that and accept him based on the criteria that he feels best represents him.


How is a 2.3 (or 3.0 for that matter) even possible at an ivy. Don't they inflate grades ridiculously?


Princeton actually participates in grade deflation.

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JoeMo
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby JoeMo » Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:00 am

still don't get it but to each his own I guess. You're going to need one hell of an addendum to make up for that 2.3 because saying "I flunked 7 classes so I could stay an extra term" causes a lot of head scratching.

You're going to have to say that you were on your last breath and then miraculously recovered and that's why you flunked that one semester and had to do the extra term if anyone is to find your story the least bit moving and acceptable.

funkmasta
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby funkmasta » Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:18 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
Princeton actually participates in grade deflation.


That is such a bullshit article. Princeton's GPA went down from a highly inflated 3.46 in 2003 to 3.39 in 2009, half of one tenth of a point in 6 goddamn years, and now they are somehow grade deflated? Hell, my alma mater (unremarkable non-Ivy top 15ish private) is grade deflated by that standard. Not to mention the quote:

“The nightmare scenario, if you will, is that you apply with a 3.5 from Princeton and someone just as smart as you applies with a 3.8 from Yale,”

Yale's median GPA was 3.51 in 2008.

If Princeton truly is grade deflated, I want to see how their GPA stacks up to MIT/Chicago/other schools actually known for real deflation (although, at least for Chicago, the gap isn't nearly as large as people make it out to be). What's really sad is how these debates over what counts as "inflation" at the topmost schools completely sidesteps the real issue between public and private schools, where GPA differences are .5 rather than .05.


Attitudes like these are why the OP got slammed for what was seen as bragging about his HYPS.

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20130312
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby 20130312 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:21 pm

Anecdotal evidence, but regardless: My friend who is a Princeton grad says that the grade deflation was well-known by professors and actively enforced.

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chem
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby chem » Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:29 pm

JoeMo wrote:
spinsrap wrote:Wow. Some of y'all can be snippy little group huh? The entire reason why I bother with the question is because I feel my 2.3 is unrepresentative (I withdrew and took 7 failing grades so that I could return for another semester). If I can work to lend credence to the explanation, oughtn't I? Hence my question in this thread.

After I was attacked for implying that something like quality of undergrad might somehow weigh into admissions decisions (I mean, a patently true statement), I defended my claim with a relevant hypothetical and you swoop in here treating me like I'm fresh out of college waiving my 2.3 around like it's going to impress people. Um... ok!

Impressive, the amount of aggression one has to submit oneself to on this board to seek the advice of those willing and friendly.

I guess that's a sign that I'm really going back to school and all that comes with it, huh?


What do you mean you dropped a term taking 7 F's so you could do an extra semester at HYP? That does not compute.

I would assume even with a strong addendum if your only excuse was that you wanted to spend an extra semester at one of the "big three" then it shows, if nothing else, poor judgment on your part. As does the semester at LMU.

Dude, seriously? Did you just BS your way through undergrad? Because that's no longer going to cut it (and I'm not saying it in a snippy way but I just don't understand this approach)


spinsrap wrote:(Apologies for the length and feel free to ignore this if you think I've typed too much, but I didn't see a thread that fit this type of case.)

I attended an good school beginning in Fall 2000. Maintained a B average while I sort of puttered through a variety of prospective majors and tried to juggle school and varsity football. After my umpteenth concussion and another switch of concentration, I took a leave of absence for a year in hopes that I could take a breath, find what moved me, and go back to school to really take advantage of the education that was lucky enough to get. Junior year (after leave) I took 10 classes (including Junior independent work) and maintained a B+ average. My intended graduating year I had a number of personal issues to deal with and I basically passed everything and really sort of ignored my thesis. I had my job already, so I was going to mail it in, read/study what I wanted to, grab my diploma and run; I wasn't concerned at all with GPA.

A few weeks before I was supposed to graduate I had one of those 22 year-old epiphanies (funny how those start to look after a few years) and realized that I hadn't really squeezed all that I could from this opportunity. I visited the dean and asked if I could return for another year or semester even if I had completed enough classes to graduate. Naturally, I'd pay my way.

Response: "Not really an option." (I attributed this to a concern for their rankings battle with Harvard... who knows?)

Me: "Aaaaaand if I fail?"

Response: "You don't want to do that, you'll have to come back for another semester."

Me: "Done!" (Yes, I know, I was a punk.)

Stuck around campus, wrote my papers and finished my classwork, but made sure that all my teachers failed me and didn't turn in my thesis. Took 7 classes worth of Fs, but was happily "forced" to return for another semester.

I took two years, took classes elsewhere, worked a bit on ideas for my thesis, worked full time, and was in a band that tours internationally. Spring of '07 I went back, maintained B+ average (thesis was a mess though and I got a C) and really got the most out of my opportunity there. Basically I was crazy about teaching and studying and this choice let me extend my time in academia while maintaining flexibility to work and tour with my band.

Obviously I'll have to address this case in an addendum, and I'd make the same choice again if I had the chance, but now this GPA is clearly my limiting factor (without the all Fs semester, I'm at about a 3; hardly impressive, but certainly less embarrassing). I've had a strong job and have good references, am not URM, but am I really just a shot in the dark here for all schools ranked 20-70ish? I know I'm not looking at good chances for T14 schools, and realistically, there's equally attractive choices for me in the next tier down, but what are my chances at a place like Lewis & Clark (I'm very interested in Animal Law) vs. my chances at a UofMinn or UC-Davis? Basically, what are committees looking at when they see someone like me, especially being about 10 years away from the bulk of my undergrad?

Also, I teach LSAT, and get above a 175 about 95% of practice tests. Should I retake and wait until next cycle or apply (albeit somewhat late) now? I'm 30 and far more interested in location and accessibility than I am in prestige from a firm standpoint. I'm also much more interested in public interest stuff, theory, & c. than I am in being a capital-L-lawyer for the big firm and for the $$$. So if there's a perfect fit that comes to mind, feel free to share.

Thanks in advance for any advice. I'm trying to find the balance between explaining things accurately and being as brief as possible, so apologies for the length here. Sorry, sorry, sorry, and sorry, if I committed any sins in my post/new thread. I read all the stickies, but I'm still new to the forum.

Cheers!



Also, HYPS UG only carries weight at HYS. Why? Because everyone wants to go there. They have their pick of good numbers, so they can weigh in those factors like UG institution. As far as softs go, it would be one of the smallest. WE definitely counts for more, really, any sort of involvement does. A HYPS degree might help you get a job out of undergrad, but not with a 2.3. All the others are rankings hungry.

Anyway OP, that 2.3 is going to be one hard check to cash. What is your WE like?

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Samara
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby Samara » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:46 am

spinsrap, I didn't see this before or I would have answered. Yeah, it sucks, but once you've earned a bachelor's degree, you can't change your GPA. As others have said, your degree bring from Princeton is generally helpful to a small degree, but your GPA is so low that it isn't going to make a difference.

Ignore WSJ_Law. He's a very annoying troll. How he hasn't been banned yet is beyond me, but whatever.

IU-B can be a great choice, but you need to consider that there is a good chance you would be stuck in Indiana. IU-B is pretty far behind the 8-ball in competing for Chicago biglaw, sitting behind UChi, NU, UMich, other T14s, WUSTL, Notre Dame and probably UIUC. It places well in Indianapolis though, which has a couple NLJ250 firms paying a little below-market. (Which is still pretty good money considering the much lower COL.)

Have you figured out what your goals are? You should start making a list of target schools and crossing off ones that don't fit your goals. IU-B, for example, should not be considered if you would be opposed to Indiana specifically or the Midwest generally. I have a really nerdy spreadsheet you can use if you'd like to help you figure out your target schools. I'm also from Indiana, so if you have questions about that I can answer them. Feel free to PM me. Good luck!




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