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spinsrap
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Postby spinsrap » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:47 pm

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Last edited by spinsrap on Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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rinkrat19
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby rinkrat19 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:49 pm

If you've already been awarded your first bachelors degree, your GPA is frozen forever. No classes taken after that point are included in your LSDAS GPA.

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Campagnolo
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby Campagnolo » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:52 pm

After you receive a bachelors degree, you cannot add extra classes to affect your GPA. Sorry, champ.

spinsrap
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby spinsrap » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:54 pm

Campagnolo wrote:After you receive a bachelors degree, you cannot add extra classes to affect your GPA. Sorry, champ.


Beautiful, that's what I was looking for. So taking classes can hurt me at all either, correct? As in, they're not going to look at this (or see it at all) and see that I went from somewhere strong to tooling around at an extension in my free time, yes?

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Campagnolo
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby Campagnolo » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:58 pm

spinsrap wrote:
Campagnolo wrote:After you receive a bachelors degree, you cannot add extra classes to affect your GPA. Sorry, champ.


Beautiful, that's what I was looking for. So taking classes can hurt me at all either, correct? As in, they're not going to look at this (or see it at all) and see that I went from somewhere strong to tooling around at an extension in my free time, yes?


Somehow I doubt fooling around in extension school is a bad thing. Spin it as intellectual curiosity.

Oh, and stop with the HYP undergrad thing. It makes you sound foolish, especially because, for law schools, a GPA is a GPA is a GPA. Just trying to help.

spinsrap
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby spinsrap » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:16 pm

Campagnolo wrote:
spinsrap wrote:
Campagnolo wrote:After you receive a bachelors degree, you cannot add extra classes to affect your GPA. Sorry, champ.


Beautiful, that's what I was looking for. So taking classes can hurt me at all either, correct? As in, they're not going to look at this (or see it at all) and see that I went from somewhere strong to tooling around at an extension in my free time, yes?


Somehow I doubt fooling around in extension school is a bad thing. Spin it as intellectual curiosity.

Oh, and stop with the HYP undergrad thing. It makes you sound foolish, especially because, for law schools, a GPA is a GPA is a GPA. Just trying to help.


The help is much appreciated, but you're also being rude when you call someone foolish who's being pleasant with you. I am somewhat curious if you'd tell me I sound foolish in person when I'm clearly just trying to gather information and carry a pleasant tone, but hey, a keyboard is a keyboard is a keyboard. I'm hardly here trying to tout my accomplishments on an anonymous forum, but rather trying to broach a topic I didn't find in a quick search. Just trying to help in turn.

While I get that LSs are obsessed with numbers for rankings, I can't believe that they see a GPA from Cal State San Marcos in communications as exactly the same as one from Stanford in Logic. There's got to be some part of an admission committee that wants to admit students that will thrive and succeed. Further, if this is the case, and I want my kid to be a lawyer, I should send her to the crappiest undergrad she can possibly find and just tutor her in the LSAT, as she'll over-perform and Yale will let her waltz in with her 4.1/177. Somehow I don't think things are that ridiculous, but wow, if they are, talk about system flaw.

Be well.
Last edited by spinsrap on Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

apollo2015
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby apollo2015 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:46 pm

Coming from a good family (that sent you to the Ivy League as opposed to the University of Phoenix) would presumably count as a soft factor in your favor (assuming that you aren't applying to a school with a glut of Ivy Leaguers there already).

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ladybug89
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby ladybug89 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:13 pm

Campagnolo wrote:
spinsrap wrote:
Campagnolo wrote:After you receive a bachelors degree, you cannot add extra classes to affect your GPA. Sorry, champ.


Beautiful, that's what I was looking for. So taking classes can hurt me at all either, correct? As in, they're not going to look at this (or see it at all) and see that I went from somewhere strong to tooling around at an extension in my free time, yes?


Somehow I doubt fooling around in extension school is a bad thing. Spin it as intellectual curiosity.

Oh, and stop with the HYP undergrad thing. It makes you sound foolish, especially because, for law schools, a GPA is a GPA is a GPA. Just trying to help.


This is just wrong. For better or for worse (honestly, probably for worse), going to HYPS is a boost. (People on TLS like to say no, people from those schools have better softs, are more interesting etc etc. This is occasionally true, but not always. Sometimes, it's just the UG.)

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ladybug89
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby ladybug89 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:17 pm

That's not to say that having gone to HYP will help OP in this case; I was just speaking in general terms.

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citykitty
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby citykitty » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:18 pm

spinsrap wrote:
Campagnolo wrote:After you receive a bachelors degree, you cannot add extra classes to affect your GPA. Sorry, champ.


Beautiful, that's what I was looking for. So taking classes can hurt me at all either, correct? As in, they're not going to look at this (or see it at all) and see that I went from somewhere strong to tooling around at an extension in my free time, yes?



Well, they're going to see it, because you will have to send the transcripts, but no it will neither help nor hurt your LSAC GPA. If your bad GPA is a fluke semester, write a good addendum. You should be able to overcome it.

spinsrap
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby spinsrap » Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:43 am

citykitty wrote:
spinsrap wrote:
Campagnolo wrote:After you receive a bachelors degree, you cannot add extra classes to affect your GPA. Sorry, champ.


Beautiful, that's what I was looking for. So taking classes can hurt me at all either, correct? As in, they're not going to look at this (or see it at all) and see that I went from somewhere strong to tooling around at an extension in my free time, yes?



Well, they're going to see it, because you will have to send the transcripts, but no it will neither help nor hurt your LSAC GPA. If your bad GPA is a fluke semester, write a good addendum. You should be able to overcome it.


Totally. That's the plan. I've just found that there's hundreds of ridiculous ways that LSAC can find ways to negatively affect your GPA (I signed up for classes at LMU one summer that I knew weren't going to earn me any credit, then dropped after the accepted drop date when I received a job offer; after missing the last two weeks and exam, I had a C and an F. Since they didn't transfer to Princeton, I didn't go through the process of begging LMU to get them off my summer school record and here we are...). I wanted to check and make sure that in taking an interesting extension class I didn't somehow commit a huge no-no worthy of people on here laughing, pointing, feces-hurling, and further name-calling.

It's absolutely ridiculous that there's no way to make up for a bad GPA from ten years ago other than an addendum, which it's clear is primarily viewed as a list of excuses. Bummer. Why can't more schools be like Northwestern and give significant weight to significant work? Oh well...

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IAFG
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby IAFG » Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:48 am

spinsrap wrote: Why can't more schools be like Northwestern and give significant weight to significant work?

Because "significant work experience" isn't one of the factors in USNWR's rankings.

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ladybug89
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby ladybug89 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:07 am

spinsrap wrote:
citykitty wrote:
spinsrap wrote:
Campagnolo wrote:After you receive a bachelors degree, you cannot add extra classes to affect your GPA. Sorry, champ.


Beautiful, that's what I was looking for. So taking classes can hurt me at all either, correct? As in, they're not going to look at this (or see it at all) and see that I went from somewhere strong to tooling around at an extension in my free time, yes?



Well, they're going to see it, because you will have to send the transcripts, but no it will neither help nor hurt your LSAC GPA. If your bad GPA is a fluke semester, write a good addendum. You should be able to overcome it.


Totally. That's the plan. I've just found that there's hundreds of ridiculous ways that LSAC can find ways to negatively affect your GPA (I signed up for classes at LMU one summer that I knew weren't going to earn me any credit, then dropped after the accepted drop date when I received a job offer; after missing the last two weeks and exam, I had a C and an F. Since they didn't transfer to Princeton, I didn't go through the process of begging LMU to get them off my summer school record and here we are...). I wanted to check and make sure that in taking an interesting extension class I didn't somehow commit a huge no-no worthy of people on here laughing, pointing, feces-hurling, and further name-calling.

It's absolutely ridiculous that there's no way to make up for a bad GPA from ten years ago other than an addendum, which it's clear is primarily viewed as a list of excuses. Bummer. Why can't more schools be like Northwestern and give significant weight to significant work? Oh well...


I don't think addenda are always viewed as a list of excuses, especially when the GPA is far removed. Also, you can still try to beg LMU to get the grades off your transcript. Lots of community colleges do retroactive drops so maybe LMU will cooperate as well.

spinsrap
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby spinsrap » Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:11 am

ladybug89 wrote:
spinsrap wrote:
citykitty wrote:
spinsrap wrote:Beautiful, that's what I was looking for. So taking classes can hurt me at all either, correct? As in, they're not going to look at this (or see it at all) and see that I went from somewhere strong to tooling around at an extension in my free time, yes?



Well, they're going to see it, because you will have to send the transcripts, but no it will neither help nor hurt your LSAC GPA. If your bad GPA is a fluke semester, write a good addendum. You should be able to overcome it.


Totally. That's the plan. I've just found that there's hundreds of ridiculous ways that LSAC can find ways to negatively affect your GPA (I signed up for classes at LMU one summer that I knew weren't going to earn me any credit, then dropped after the accepted drop date when I received a job offer; after missing the last two weeks and exam, I had a C and an F. Since they didn't transfer to Princeton, I didn't go through the process of begging LMU to get them off my summer school record and here we are...). I wanted to check and make sure that in taking an interesting extension class I didn't somehow commit a huge no-no worthy of people on here laughing, pointing, feces-hurling, and further name-calling.

It's absolutely ridiculous that there's no way to make up for a bad GPA from ten years ago other than an addendum, which it's clear is primarily viewed as a list of excuses. Bummer. Why can't more schools be like Northwestern and give significant weight to significant work? Oh well...


I don't think addenda are always viewed as a list of excuses, especially when the GPA is far removed. Also, you can still try to beg LMU to get the grades off your transcript. Lots of community colleges do retroactive drops so maybe LMU will cooperate as well.


I appreciate the advice and I'll look into it. I've already had them send transcripts, so even if this is something I could get them to take off, who knows if LSAC will adjust... I guess they would have no say, it just seems hard to imagine them ever moving something UP... hah.

And I know the addenda are often useful and hardly ignored, it's just a pain to need to apply it, but hey, it could always be worse and be a DUI, right?

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Perdevise
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby Perdevise » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:58 pm

ladybug89 wrote:
Campagnolo wrote:
spinsrap wrote:
Campagnolo wrote:After you receive a bachelors degree, you cannot add extra classes to affect your GPA. Sorry, champ.


Beautiful, that's what I was looking for. So taking classes can hurt me at all either, correct? As in, they're not going to look at this (or see it at all) and see that I went from somewhere strong to tooling around at an extension in my free time, yes?


Somehow I doubt fooling around in extension school is a bad thing. Spin it as intellectual curiosity.

Oh, and stop with the HYP undergrad thing. It makes you sound foolish, especially because, for law schools, a GPA is a GPA is a GPA. Just trying to help.


This is just wrong. For better or for worse (honestly, probably for worse), going to HYPS is a boost. (People on TLS like to say no, people from those schools have better softs, are more interesting etc etc. This is occasionally true, but not always. Sometimes, it's just the UG.)


I remember reading that a majority of Yale's entering class every year is HYPS. It probably means something.

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TommyK
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby TommyK » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:31 pm

spinsrap wrote: I can't believe that they see a GPA from Cal State San Marcos in communications as exactly the same as one from Stanford in Logic.


Congratulations. You'll probably have a slight bump over those 2.3 gpa applicants from Cal State schools.

spinsrap wrote:There's got to be some part of an admission committee that wants to admit students that will thrive and succeed.


I think they do. While it's numbers driven, they want students who can succeed, but with a 2.3 gpa, you haven't demonstrated a lot of experience succeeding.

spinsrap wrote:Further, if this is the case, and I want my kid to be a lawyer, I should send her to the crappiest undergrad she can possibly find and just tutor her in the LSAT, as she'll over-perform and Yale will let her waltz in with her 4.1/177. Somehow I don't think things are that ridiculous, but wow, if they are, talk about system flaw.


Well - probably more likely a shoe-in for Harvard, but Yale's a possibility :). It's certainly a viable strategy, but you'd be limiting her to just being a good law school applicant instead of having other career paths possible. If you only admit students from elite schools, you're missing out on a lot of other talent and using the elite schools undergrad admissions as a proxy for your own. That's one of the reasons the LSAT was implemented - to provide opportunities to level the playing field to show who are the most qualified applicants which hopefully increases diversity of the class.

spinsrap
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby spinsrap » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:28 pm

TommyK wrote:
spinsrap wrote: I can't believe that they see a GPA from Cal State San Marcos in communications as exactly the same as one from Stanford in Logic.


Congratulations. You'll probably have a slight bump over those 2.3 gpa applicants from Cal State schools.

spinsrap wrote:There's got to be some part of an admission committee that wants to admit students that will thrive and succeed.


I think they do. While it's numbers driven, they want students who can succeed, but with a 2.3 gpa, you haven't demonstrated a lot of experience succeeding.

spinsrap wrote:Further, if this is the case, and I want my kid to be a lawyer, I should send her to the crappiest undergrad she can possibly find and just tutor her in the LSAT, as she'll over-perform and Yale will let her waltz in with her 4.1/177. Somehow I don't think things are that ridiculous, but wow, if they are, talk about system flaw.


Well - probably more likely a shoe-in for Harvard, but Yale's a possibility :). It's certainly a viable strategy, but you'd be limiting her to just being a good law school applicant instead of having other career paths possible. If you only admit students from elite schools, you're missing out on a lot of other talent and using the elite schools undergrad admissions as a proxy for your own. That's one of the reasons the LSAT was implemented - to provide opportunities to level the playing field to show who are the most qualified applicants which hopefully increases diversity of the class.


Wow. Some of y'all can be snippy little group huh? The entire reason why I bother with the question is because I feel my 2.3 is unrepresentative (I withdrew and took 7 failing grades so that I could return for another semester). If I can work to lend credence to the explanation, oughtn't I? Hence my question in this thread.

After I was attacked for implying that something like quality of undergrad might somehow weigh into admissions decisions (I mean, a patently true statement), I defended my claim with a relevant hypothetical and you swoop in here treating me like I'm fresh out of college waiving my 2.3 around like it's going to impress people. Um... ok!

Impressive, the amount of aggression one has to submit oneself to on this board to seek the advice of those willing and friendly.

I guess that's a sign that I'm really going back to school and all that comes with it, huh?

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IAFG
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby IAFG » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:32 pm

spinsrap wrote: I can't believe that they see a GPA from Cal State San Marcos in communications as exactly the same as one from Stanford in Logic.


And I can't believe that the rest of the world is so impressed with fancy-pants HYP undergrads, but here we are. You get the advantage at every other turn, us lowly state school kids get the advantage* in law school admissions.

*Even this is questionable. I am told that the curve is set at a lower point at University of Iowa than at Harvard.

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rftdd888
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby rftdd888 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:13 pm

spinsrap wrote:After I was attacked for implying that something like quality of undergrad might somehow weigh into admissions decisions (I mean, a patently true statement)


that's the thing that you're not understanding, it's not a patently true statement. it would hold weight. the tiniest bit of weight. not enough to overcome any normal applicant from a public university with a 3.2, considering your 2.3 from HYPS.

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TommyK
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby TommyK » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:29 pm

spinsrap wrote:Wow. Some of y'all can be snippy little group huh? The entire reason why I bother with the question is because I feel my 2.3 is unrepresentative (I withdrew and took 7 failing grades so that I could return for another semester). If I can work to lend credence to the explanation, oughtn't I? Hence my question in this thread.

After I was attacked for implying that something like quality of undergrad might somehow weigh into admissions decisions (I mean, a patently true statement), I defended my claim with a relevant hypothetical and you swoop in here treating me like I'm fresh out of college waiving my 2.3 around like it's going to impress people. Um... ok!

Impressive, the amount of aggression one has to submit oneself to on this board to seek the advice of those willing and friendly.

I guess that's a sign that I'm really going back to school and all that comes with it, huh?


I'm sorry if I offended your delicate sensibilities. I reviewed my response and I don't think it was snippy or hostile. Maybe when I said "congratulations", it could be interpreted as being snarky, but the rest was written in earnest. If that ruffled your feathers, I don't know what to tell you... Welcome to the Internet? But, I'll go for broke now - The thing is: you come off as a self-entitled prick. Who cares what ivy league school you almost flunked out of?

I'm looking forward to your post in 5 years, where you claim that being fired from Cravath for shoddy performance should be looked on more favorably than making partner at Jones Day.

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willwash
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby willwash » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:34 pm

IAFG wrote:
spinsrap wrote: Why can't more schools be like Northwestern and give significant weight to significant work?

Because "significant work experience" isn't one of the factors in USNWR's rankings.


Anyone know if USNWR reports the number of veterans?

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20130312
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby 20130312 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:37 pm

willwash wrote:
IAFG wrote:
spinsrap wrote: Why can't more schools be like Northwestern and give significant weight to significant work?

Because "significant work experience" isn't one of the factors in USNWR's rankings.


Anyone know if USNWR reports the number of veterans?


No they don't, but still a great soft.
Last edited by 20130312 on Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TommyK
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby TommyK » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:38 pm

willwash wrote:
IAFG wrote:
spinsrap wrote: Why can't more schools be like Northwestern and give significant weight to significant work?

Because "significant work experience" isn't one of the factors in USNWR's rankings.


Anyone know if USNWR reports the number of veterans?


http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... ology-2012

I don't think so. If they do, it doesn't appear to be a factor in the ranking methodology, which is the important part.

mrloblaw
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby mrloblaw » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:32 pm

TommyK wrote:
spinsrap wrote:Wow. Some of y'all can be snippy little group huh? The entire reason why I bother with the question is because I feel my 2.3 is unrepresentative (I withdrew and took 7 failing grades so that I could return for another semester). If I can work to lend credence to the explanation, oughtn't I? Hence my question in this thread.

After I was attacked for implying that something like quality of undergrad might somehow weigh into admissions decisions (I mean, a patently true statement), I defended my claim with a relevant hypothetical and you swoop in here treating me like I'm fresh out of college waiving my 2.3 around like it's going to impress people. Um... ok!

Impressive, the amount of aggression one has to submit oneself to on this board to seek the advice of those willing and friendly.

I guess that's a sign that I'm really going back to school and all that comes with it, huh?


I'm sorry if I offended your delicate sensibilities. I reviewed my response and I don't think it was snippy or hostile. Maybe when I said "congratulations", it could be interpreted as being snarky, but the rest was written in earnest. If that ruffled your feathers, I don't know what to tell you... Welcome to the Internet? But, I'll go for broke now - The thing is: you come off as a self-entitled prick. Who cares what ivy league school you almost flunked out of?

I'm looking forward to your post in 5 years, where you claim that being fired from Cravath for shoddy performance should be looked on more favorably than making partner at Jones Day.


tbf, getting fired from the mailroom at Cravath is more prestttigious than making named partner at Jones Day.

But, sorry OP. In life, there are very few do-overs for screwups, and no matter what the circumstances, a 2.3 uGPA, from any school, is a gargantuan screwup.

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JoeMo
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Re: GPA fixer-upper.

Postby JoeMo » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:46 pm

spinsrap wrote:Wow. Some of y'all can be snippy little group huh? The entire reason why I bother with the question is because I feel my 2.3 is unrepresentative (I withdrew and took 7 failing grades so that I could return for another semester). If I can work to lend credence to the explanation, oughtn't I? Hence my question in this thread.

After I was attacked for implying that something like quality of undergrad might somehow weigh into admissions decisions (I mean, a patently true statement), I defended my claim with a relevant hypothetical and you swoop in here treating me like I'm fresh out of college waiving my 2.3 around like it's going to impress people. Um... ok!

Impressive, the amount of aggression one has to submit oneself to on this board to seek the advice of those willing and friendly.

I guess that's a sign that I'm really going back to school and all that comes with it, huh?


What do you mean you dropped a term taking 7 F's so you could do an extra semester at HYP? That does not compute.

I would assume even with a strong addendum if your only excuse was that you wanted to spend an extra semester at one of the "big three" then it shows, if nothing else, poor judgment on your part. As does the semester at LMU.

Dude, seriously? Did you just BS your way through undergrad? Because that's no longer going to cut it (and I'm not saying it in a snippy way but I just don't understand this approach)




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