Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

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PBateman1
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Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby PBateman1 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:49 pm

We all know that in undergrad we can read professor reviews before we sign up for classes and make it so that we give ourselves the most favorable chances of maintaining a high GPA. Can you do the same thing in law school to try and stay as high up in the class rankings as possible?

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Veyron
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby Veyron » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:51 pm

PBateman1 wrote:We all know that in undergrad we can read professor reviews before we sign up for classes and make it so that we give ourselves the most favorable chances of maintaining a high GPA. Can you do the same thing in law school to try and stay as high up in the class rankings as possible?


Not your 1L year.

bdubs
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby bdubs » Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:08 pm

At my school we have two open electives during 1L spring semester. Not all of the electives open to 1Ls have to be curved. So the answer is, yes in some instances.

005618502
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby 005618502 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:12 pm

This is interesting. And very true about UG. With any intellect, research before hand, and some effort a 3.9+ is easy

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vanwinkle
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:13 pm

Veyron wrote:
PBateman1 wrote:We all know that in undergrad we can read professor reviews before we sign up for classes and make it so that we give ourselves the most favorable chances of maintaining a high GPA. Can you do the same thing in law school to try and stay as high up in the class rankings as possible?

Not your 1L year.

Not only that, OCI is basically all about 1L grades. So, for when it most matters, no you cannot.

Renzo
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby Renzo » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:27 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
Veyron wrote:
PBateman1 wrote:We all know that in undergrad we can read professor reviews before we sign up for classes and make it so that we give ourselves the most favorable chances of maintaining a high GPA. Can you do the same thing in law school to try and stay as high up in the class rankings as possible?

Not your 1L year.

Not only that, OCI is basically all about 1L grades. So, for when it most matters, no you cannot.


Right.

You can totally game your law school GPA after it doesn't matter anymore.

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Grizz
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby Grizz » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:39 pm

Take Islamic Law.

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biglaw$
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby biglaw$ » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:33 am

Clinics, seminars, externships, random classes with low enrollment and professors that mail it in. However, if you're on a clerkship track you kind of have to stay on point at least through two years.

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dailygrind
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby dailygrind » Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:38 am

At UVA you can access prior grade distributions, so it's possible to take some classes that are heavy on the B+ and put in a subpar effort.

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20130312
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby 20130312 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:19 am

Renzo wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
Veyron wrote:
PBateman1 wrote:We all know that in undergrad we can read professor reviews before we sign up for classes and make it so that we give ourselves the most favorable chances of maintaining a high GPA. Can you do the same thing in law school to try and stay as high up in the class rankings as possible?

Not your 1L year.

Not only that, OCI is basically all about 1L grades. So, for when it most matters, no you cannot.


Right.

You can totally game your law school GPA after it doesn't matter anymore.


0L here, so I admittedly know nothing, but is this really fair? I would think law firms would look favorably on an upward trend...

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dailygrind
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby dailygrind » Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:41 pm

Fairness. Lol.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:13 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:0L here, so I admittedly know nothing, but is this really fair? I would think law firms would look favorably on an upward trend...

dailygrind wrote:Fairness. Lol.

+1

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20130312
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby 20130312 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:23 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:0L here, so I admittedly know nothing, but is this really fair? I would think law firms would look favorably on an upward trend...

dailygrind wrote:Fairness. Lol.

+1


Image

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vanwinkle
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:07 pm

This is just a general comment, but I think a big problem 0Ls have going into law school is this belief that the legal profession will be "understanding" or "fair" or "considerate" in the same way their undergrad profs have been toward them. They're not.

Undergrad profs are paid whether you pass or not, and in fact get in trouble if they fail too many of you because colleges want to keep students enrolled and keep collecting tuition. (This is also largely true in law school, where the curve is set up to keep you from failing, even if you end up with grades that make you unemployable.) So it's easy to think of life being "fair" or "understanding" for a while.

Law firm partners, on the other hand, share profits from the law firm, which means that they get paid based on how efficiently and quickly the law firm gets work done. If you're too slow, or prone to mistakes, you could ultimately cost them clients and therefore money, so they will push you out the door before that happens. This is one reason why they emphasize 1L grades so much; they want to pick a bunch of potentially solid students, and then have a summer with them as a preview of their on-the-job ability before deciding to hire them permanently. You won't have all your 2L grades back until after the 2L summer has begun, and it'll be too late for them to hire you for a summer then.

Is that "fair" to students who do poorly in 1L but bring their grades up? Not really. But they have no interest in that kind of "fairness". Most firms are "fair" to the students they offer summer positions to, giving them priority for permanent hiring as long as they perform well and don't embarrass the firm. That is fair to those students, since they work there for the summer expecting to earn a job offer, but this blocks out people who couldn't get in through OCI.

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20130312
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby 20130312 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:17 pm

To be clear, I meant "fair" in the sense of whether the COMMENT was fair (that GPA doesn't matter after 1L), not that the system was fair. Sorry for the confusion.

Renzo
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby Renzo » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:29 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:To be clear, I meant "fair" in the sense of whether the COMMENT was fair (that GPA doesn't matter after 1L), not that the system was fair. Sorry for the confusion.


The problem is that people whose opinion about your grades matter most will only ever see them once, and that's before you start your 2L year. After that, you've missed the OCI boat, and it's not coming back. Missing OCI is itself a black mark of sorts with certain employers. If you fucking destroyed it, and got perfect grades 2L year, there might be a slim prayer one of those employers would consider you, but it will be much harder to even get them to notice your application and look at your (now really good) grades.

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quiver
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby quiver » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:54 am

Law firms: OCI is basically end-game and they only see your 1L grades which you cannot game. But:
Renzo wrote:If you fucking destroyed it, and got perfect grades 2L year, there might be a slim prayer one of those employers would consider you, but it will be much harder to even get them to notice your application and look at your (now really good) grades

Clerkships: Judges see your transcript, know if you tried to game the system, and take this into consideration when seeing your GPA.

Government: I'll defer to others on this but from what I gather grades are not as important for government employers as they mainly focus on your practical experience. The problem is that they rarely hire straight out of law school (especially now) and you're forced to take another path to get there (see above categories).

PI: no idea but my guess would be that their criteria mirrors that of government (see above)

Renzo
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby Renzo » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:01 am

quiver wrote:Law firms: OCI is basically end-game and they only see your 1L grades which you cannot game. But:
Renzo wrote:If you fucking destroyed it, and got perfect grades 2L year, there might be a slim prayer one of those employers would consider you, but it will be much harder to even get them to notice your application and look at your (now really good) grades

Clerkships: Judges see your transcript, know if you tried to game the system, and take this into consideration when seeing your GPA.

Government: I'll defer to others on this but from what I gather grades are not as important for government employers as they mainly focus on your practical experience. The problem is that they rarely hire straight out of law school (especially now) and you're forced to take another path to get there (see above categories).

PI: no idea but my guess would be that their criteria mirrors that of government (see above)


This is mostly true. Judges won't be impressed that you got an A in your Law and Kittens seminar, although some PI orgs might be; and, some Federal employers are actually significantly more sensitive to grades than to school rank. So in general you shouldn't completely blow off your 2/3L years, but the marginal benefit from trying to "game" them is teeny tiny.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby Holly Golightly » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:22 am

InGoodFaith wrote:To be clear, I meant "fair" in the sense of whether the COMMENT was fair (that GPA doesn't matter after 1L), not that the system was fair. Sorry for the confusion.

GPA doesn't matter after 1L if all you want is a biglaw job out of OCI. However, it does matter for a great number of other types of jobs.

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PBateman1
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby PBateman1 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:38 am

Thanks for all of the responses from all perspectives. I think I'm perfectly capable of attaining a good GPA in law school, but you also just always want to look for the extra edge, ya know?

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby somewhatwayward » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:07 am

PBateman1 wrote:Thanks for all of the responses from all perspectives. I think I'm perfectly capable of attaining a good GPA in law school , but you also just always want to look for the extra edge, ya know?


LOL good luck

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:22 am

PBateman1 wrote:Thanks for all of the responses from all perspectives. I think I'm perfectly capable of attaining a good GPA in law school, but you also just always want to look for the extra edge, ya know?


What is this I don't even

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BiglawOrBust
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby BiglawOrBust » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:00 am

PBateman1 wrote:Thanks for all of the responses from all perspectives. I think I'm perfectly capable of attaining a good GPA in law school, but you also just always want to look for the extra edge, ya know?


Let's shoot for the 4.0, mayne!

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PBateman1
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby PBateman1 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:23 am

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
PBateman1 wrote:Thanks for all of the responses from all perspectives. I think I'm perfectly capable of attaining a good GPA in law school, but you also just always want to look for the extra edge, ya know?


What is this I don't even


Improper use of meme

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20130312
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Re: Can you "game" your GPA in LS?

Postby 20130312 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:24 am

PBateman1 wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:
PBateman1 wrote:Thanks for all of the responses from all perspectives. I think I'm perfectly capable of attaining a good GPA in law school, but you also just always want to look for the extra edge, ya know?


What is this I don't even


Improper use of meme


Milhouse is not a meme.




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