JD/MBA

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bb8900
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JD/MBA

Postby bb8900 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:30 pm

Hi,

I tried using the search feature, but either I am doing it wrong or something isn't working b/c no results came up.

Anyways, what does everyone thing about he JD/MBA? Do you think that it is worth it or just a waste of time/money?

I am someone who goes to an average law school (ranked between 70-105), but has always been interested in business and perhaps one day want to start my own business.

Either way I am interested in business law, so would the MBA help me get a better job OR do law firms not really care about the MBA?

All help is appreciated.

Thanks

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Hawkeye Pierce
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Re: JD/MBA

Postby Hawkeye Pierce » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:26 am

You didn't use the search function correctly because this topic has been discussed ad nauseum: http://www.top-law-schools.com/search-f ... x=0&sa.y=0

I'm not going to spend the time reiterating what has been said before, but a JD/MBA is only useful in limited circumstances. Are you getting the JD and MBA from Harvard? Then go for it.

I wouldn't call a T2/T3 law school 'average'... it's below-average at best and in most cases will offer minimal job prospects. Adding an MBA from a below-average program isn't going to help you at all either.

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bb8900
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Re: JD/MBA

Postby bb8900 » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:49 am

Hawkeye Pierce wrote:You didn't use the search function correctly because this topic has been discussed ad nauseum: http://www.top-law-schools.com/search-f ... x=0&sa.y=0

I'm not going to spend the time reiterating what has been said before, but a JD/MBA is only useful in limited circumstances. Are you getting the JD and MBA from Harvard? Then go for it.

I wouldn't call a T2/T3 law school 'average'... it's below-average at best and in most cases will offer minimal job prospects. Adding an MBA from a below-average program isn't going to help you at all either.


Why do you say that? The economy is globalizing and pretty much everything now a days has to do with business. Companies are struggling, so being able to hire some for the same price, yet with JD AND MBA skills seems like it would be a plus.

I know the arguments that the top firms might not like it since they think that you have other options and might leave. But given that I go to a "below average school at best" and will probably work for a mid sized firm or just some business, then for someone in my position it might be helpful.

Thoughts?

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top30man
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Re: JD/MBA

Postby top30man » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:58 am

bb8900 wrote:
Hawkeye Pierce wrote:You didn't use the search function correctly because this topic has been discussed ad nauseum: http://www.top-law-schools.com/search-f ... x=0&sa.y=0

I'm not going to spend the time reiterating what has been said before, but a JD/MBA is only useful in limited circumstances. Are you getting the JD and MBA from Harvard? Then go for it.

I wouldn't call a T2/T3 law school 'average'... it's below-average at best and in most cases will offer minimal job prospects. Adding an MBA from a below-average program isn't going to help you at all either.


Why do you say that? The economy is globalizing and pretty much everything now a days has to do with business. Companies are struggling, so being able to hire some for the same price, yet with JD AND MBA skills seems like it would be a plus.

I know the arguments that the top firms might not like it since they think that you have other options and might leave. But given that I go to a "below average school at best" and will probably work for a mid sized firm or just some business, then for someone in my position it might be helpful.

Thoughts?

No. Hawkeye is right. The two degrees have disparate employment options. It may be worth it from the programs that are top at both (think HYSPM). Though usually you'd pick one.

bdubs
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Re: JD/MBA

Postby bdubs » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:29 am

top30man wrote:No. Hawkeye is right. The two degrees have disparate employment options. It may be worth it from the programs that are top at both (think HYSPM). Though usually you'd pick one.


Lol @ egregious Michigan trolling.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: JD/MBA

Postby JamMasterJ » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:50 am

bdubs wrote:
top30man wrote:No. Hawkeye is right. The two degrees have disparate employment options. It may be worth it from the programs that are top at both (think HYSPM). Though usually you'd pick one.


Lol @ egregious Michigan trolling.

what I was gonna say.

ajr
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Re: JD/MBA

Postby ajr » Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:07 am

JamMasterJ wrote:
bdubs wrote:
top30man wrote:No. Hawkeye is right. The two degrees have disparate employment options. It may be worth it from the programs that are top at both (think HYSPM). Though usually you'd pick one.


Lol @ egregious Michigan trolling.

what I was gonna say.


S, H, C (Chicago) --> In that order.

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top30man
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Re: JD/MBA

Postby top30man » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:07 am

ajr wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
bdubs wrote:
top30man wrote:No. Hawkeye is right. The two degrees have disparate employment options. It may be worth it from the programs that are top at both (think HYSPM). Though usually you'd pick one.


Lol @ egregious Michigan trolling.

what I was gonna say.


S, H, C (Chicago) --> In that order.

Oh damn. I meant Northwestern, not Michigan for the MBA side (think they're ranked 4th most recently).

Edit: M and N are next to each other. Im an idiot.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: JD/MBA

Postby JamMasterJ » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:04 pm

ajr wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
bdubs wrote:
top30man wrote:No. Hawkeye is right. The two degrees have disparate employment options. It may be worth it from the programs that are top at both (think HYSPM). Though usually you'd pick one.


Lol @ egregious Michigan trolling.

what I was gonna say.


S, H, C (Chicago) --> In that order.

I didn't realize S and Chi had such strong MBA programs

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BlakcMajikc
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Re: JD/MBA

Postby BlakcMajikc » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:12 pm

This isn't really for the OP, but general chatter....
Of the T14, most (11/14) have pretty awesome MBA programs. All kickass:

H
S
B (Haas)
Chi (Booth)
NYU (Stern)
M (Ross)
UVA (Darden)
P (Wharton)
D (Fuqua)
NW (Kellogg)
Cornell (Johnson)

Columbia and Yale MBA programs might be high in the USNWR rankings, but in real life, their MBAs lag behind the LS. And Gtown... They may have a bschool, but I haven't heard of it. Y, Col, and G would be the only three bschools where the MBA is not at least somewhat up to par with the JD. NYU/Stern almost falling into that category, but their MBA program is on the upswing.

HamDel
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Re: JD/MBA

Postby HamDel » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:42 pm

BlakcMajikc wrote:This isn't really for the OP, but general chatter....
Of the T14, most (11/14) have pretty awesome MBA programs. All kickass:

H
S
B (Haas)
Chi (Booth)
NYU (Stern)
M (Ross)
UVA (Darden)
P (Wharton)
D (Fuqua)
NW (Kellogg)
Cornell (Johnson)

Columbia and Yale MBA programs might be high in the USNWR rankings, but in real life, their MBAs lag behind the LS. And Gtown... They may have a bschool, but I haven't heard of it. Y, Col, and G would be the only three bschools where the MBA is not at least somewhat up to par with the JD. NYU/Stern almost falling into that category, but their MBA program is on the upswing.


This is asinine. Anyone who thinks that Cornell, Duke, UVA, and Michigan should be included but not Columbia or that NYU is "almost falling into that category" is an idiot. What the hell does "lag behind the law school" mean? You have a better shot at getting a job as a hedge fund analyst coming from NYU Law than Stern? It makes zero sense to compare these based on some blurry definition of "prestige" instead of looking at actual average salaries and job prospects, not to mention that they both prepare you for dramatically different jobs.

http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/rankings/
http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolra ... kings-2011

Someone should take away your keyboard before you can try to be the stupidest person on the internet again.

bdubs
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Re: JD/MBA

Postby bdubs » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:11 pm

BlakcMajikc wrote:This isn't really for the OP, but general chatter....
Of the T14, most (11/14) have pretty awesome MBA programs. All kickass:

H
S
B (Haas)
Chi (Booth)
NYU (Stern)
M (Ross)
UVA (Darden)
P (Wharton)
D (Fuqua)
NW (Kellogg)
Cornell (Johnson)

Columbia and Yale MBA programs might be high in the USNWR rankings, but in real life, their MBAs lag behind the LS. And Gtown... They may have a bschool, but I haven't heard of it. Y, Col, and G would be the only three bschools where the MBA is not at least somewhat up to par with the JD. NYU/Stern almost falling into that category, but their MBA program is on the upswing.


This is way beyond the scope of the original post, but it is true that many of the T14 have MBA programs that are at least "good". However, MBA programs cannot be ranked the way that law schools can. While Columbia might not be a great program for marketing or general management, it's a pretty stellar program for finance. In addition, it's quite a bit ahead of NYU, Berkeley, Michigan, UVA, Duke, and Cornell in terms of program quality, prestige, and placement power.

I would also argue that getting a JD/MBA with Yale SOM is not really a bad deal for a student at YLS. One of the things about YLS that makes employers wary of students is that they are seen as too academic. Many employers would see having an MBA as providing a practical skill set. Also, SOM is on par with a lot of the other programs you mentioned in terms of quality, it's just that it is not really in the same relative position as YLS.

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BlakcMajikc
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Re: JD/MBA

Postby BlakcMajikc » Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:45 pm

bdubs wrote:
BlakcMajikc wrote:This isn't really for the OP, but general chatter....
Of the T14, most (11/14) have pretty awesome MBA programs. All kickass:

H
S
B (Haas)
Chi (Booth)
NYU (Stern)
M (Ross)
UVA (Darden)
P (Wharton)
D (Fuqua)
NW (Kellogg)
Cornell (Johnson)

Columbia and Yale MBA programs might be high in the USNWR rankings, but in real life, their MBAs lag behind the LS. And Gtown... They may have a bschool, but I haven't heard of it. Y, Col, and G would be the only three bschools where the MBA is not at least somewhat up to par with the JD. NYU/Stern almost falling into that category, but their MBA program is on the upswing.


This is way beyond the scope of the original post, but it is true that many of the T14 have MBA programs that are at least "good". However, MBA programs cannot be ranked the way that law schools can. While Columbia might not be a great program for marketing or general management, it's a pretty stellar program for finance. In addition, it's quite a bit ahead of NYU, Berkeley, Michigan, UVA, Duke, and Cornell in terms of program quality, prestige, and placement power.

I would also argue that getting a JD/MBA with Yale SOM is not really a bad deal for a student at YLS. One of the things about YLS that makes employers wary of students is that they are seen as too academic. Many employers would see having an MBA as providing a practical skill set. Also, SOM is on par with a lot of the other programs you mentioned in terms of quality, it's just that it is not really in the same relative position as YLS.


I certainly agree that MBA programs can't be ranked in the same way. While law school covers basically one industry and very few regions based on major cities (NYC, DC, Chicago, etc.), MBA programs cover so many industries that have very different regional categorizations and placements.

Good to know about Columbia and Yale... and glad you put this knowledge on TLS. Had no idea bout Columbia (my background is more Marketing, Consulting, GM), but based more on anecdotal evidence and experience, I still might disagree with you on its placement above Haas, Ross, Darden, etc... It's too industry specific to try to parcel out where Columbia falls amidst those schools. From what I know, it's not a Wharton, HBS, Kellogg etc. so it would fall in that next tier. But again, all great schools.

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Re: JD/MBA

Postby bdubs » Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:47 pm

Although you can't really distinguish between specialties, I think people generally agree that M7 is a distinction that is worth making. Columbia is M7 and many of the other programs you mentioned are not.

For those who are considering Columbia's JD/MBA program. Consider the information in this article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... ducation_5

Columbia is heavily weighted toward finance. Maybe even more than Wharton. I would say that it compliments the law school nicely because many NY firms are also incredibly focused on finance. If you're not interested in finance other schools are probably a better fit.

In general here are the reputations of the programs for reference:
HBS - specializes in general management, but is a pretty well rounded school
Stanford - very heavy in tech and entrepreneurship, also good all around but a bit too small for its own good
Wharton - finance and nothing but
Columbia - same as Wharton
Chicago - tends to be quant heavy, does a lot of finance but its not quite as singularly focused as W or C
Northwestern - really shines in marketing, but it's a general management school and recruits into consulting quite a bit
MIT - very similar to Chicago, and obviously has no law school

I know a lot less about the non-M7 programs.

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BlakcMajikc
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Re: JD/MBA

Postby BlakcMajikc » Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:36 pm

bdubs wrote:Although you can't really distinguish between specialties, I think people generally agree that M7 is a distinction that is worth making. Columbia is M7 and many of the other programs you mentioned are not.

For those who are considering Columbia's JD/MBA program. Consider the information in this article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... ducation_5

Columbia is heavily weighted toward finance. Maybe even more than Wharton. I would say that it compliments the law school nicely because many NY firms are also incredibly focused on finance. If you're not interested in finance other schools are probably a better fit.

In general here are the reputations of the programs for reference:
HBS - specializes in general management, but is a pretty well rounded school
Stanford - very heavy in tech and entrepreneurship, also good all around but a bit too small for its own good
Wharton - finance and nothing but
Columbia - same as Wharton
Chicago - tends to be quant heavy, does a lot of finance but its not quite as singularly focused as W or C
Northwestern - really shines in marketing, but it's a general management school and recruits into consulting quite a bit
MIT - very similar to Chicago, and obviously has no law school

I know a lot less about the non-M7 programs.


Great M7 breakdown.

I know little about finance or hard quant schools (most M-7's) that place more in the "banks, hedge funds, investment managers, private equity and venture capital firms" mentioned in your link, which is why I mentioned that MBA rankings are quite different than law school rankings because they cover so many different industries.

Of the M7s, I only went up against against really only NW and Chicago for employment prospects in Brand Management and Marketing (ie think CPG hybrids such as J&J/Abbott/Eli-Lilly, or pure CPGS such as General Mills/PepsiCo-FritoLay/ConAgra & the major beer companies) and General Management (other -- McDonald's, Starbucks, etc.). But, it's so industry-specific... for example, Haas is pretty sweet for non-profit stuff.

I read this posted in a BusinessWeek forum about the M7 and laughed:
If someone describes their school as the top ranked school, they go to HBS or Stanford
If someone says they go to a "Top 3" school, they go to Wharton
If someone says they go to a "Top 5" school, its either Chicago, Kellogg, or MIT Sloan
If someone says they're in the "M7", they go to Columbia
If someone says "Top 10", they mean Tuck, Ross, Haas, or <insert whatever school you insist belongs in the top ten, thus proving my point>

So, I guess there is MBA trolling as well. I went to a T20 MBA program ;)

bdubs
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Re: JD/MBA

Postby bdubs » Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:52 pm

I hear you. I think the reason why M7 gets so much billing is because most of the jobs that pay close to or more than law jobs are most attainable from those schools. The MBB-level consulting firms, finance, and high end tech jobs are the ones that people think of when they think of a top business school. Those jobs are accessible from other schools, but in much smaller quantities. Not quite the drop from the T14 to T20, but a similar kind of phenomenon.




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