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How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:29 pm
by North
Today my University held its annual Graduate and Professional School Expo and, unsurprisingly, what seemed like every single one of the worst law schools in the nation set up shop in our union. They had colorful tablecloths and card-stock information sheets about their world-renowned concentrations in space, sports, and international human rights law.

During the Expo, I had several conversations with various acquaintances about their plans. Almost all of them had a fistful of brochures and business cards from TTTTs and spoke very confidently about their plans to go a TTTT and then set up their own firm/fly around the world doing international law/go to all their clients games as their sports law counsel/et cetera.

Here was the problem: I'm on TLS and I know that 90% of the information these kids were basing serious, expensive life decisions on was almost entirely false; that going to a TTTT will only land them $150,000 in non-dischargeable debt; that they will probably never, ever work in the largely imaginary fields they're so excited about; and that they will likely struggle to find a job as a lawyer at all.

How, though, do you tell somebody any of those things -- how do we evangelize those without the TLS wisdom -- without sounding like a TOTAL DOUCHEBAG? I spent most of my time nodding and offering noncommittal "yeahs," but I felt like I was doing them a disservice by not crushing their plans. Was not saying anything the way to go? I suppose I don't go up to every person I see outside smoking and offer them information on the detriments of smoking that I think they need to know. What do you think?


If this has been discussed at length in the past, I apologize. There wasn't an easy search-term for this.

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:31 pm
by prezidentv8
North wrote:There wasn't an easy search-term for this.


Made me LOL.

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:43 pm
by dailygrind
Link them with this:

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/

Tell them to look around at the numbers for good schools, and notice how they trend for schools outside of the top 20 or so. Then consider what's happening at schools at the bottom.

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:44 pm
by Bildungsroman
You won't be able to talk these people out of it because everyone is convinced they're a special snowflake who will dominate the competition at whatever law school they choose and be rolling in awesome job offers.

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:50 pm
by kaiser
Think back to how you firm came across TLS. Did you have a friend refer you here? Or were you diligently trying to learn more about law schools and just came upon the site? If you are like me, you are the latter. You found this site because you cared enough to do some research, learn more, and be fully informed. I really like law school because not everyone can be a winner. It isn't that I enjoy seeing people lose out on things. I just think it is the first step in our lives that is halfway reflective of the real world (in that not everyone is going to win). You did your research, and you are in a better position because of it. If those people with the TTTT brochures didn't do theirs, then that is their fault. Like I said, in real life there are winners and losers. So while it is certainly noble of you to want to share what you found, I wouldn't go out of my way. If they are mature and prudent enough, they will find their way here sooner or later.

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:05 pm
by blink
TLS is a secret society that shouldn't be spoken of IRL. HTH

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:05 pm
by prezidentv8
kaiser wrote:Think back to how you firm came across TLS. Did you have a friend refer you here? Or were you diligently trying to learn more about law schools and just came upon the site? If you are like me, you are the latter. You found this site because you cared enough to do some research, learn more, and be fully informed. I really like law school because not everyone can be a winner. It isn't that I enjoy seeing people lose out on things. I just think it is the first step in our lives that is halfway reflective of the real world (in that not everyone is going to win). You did your research, and you are in a better position because of it. If those people with the TTTT brochures didn't do theirs, then that is their fault. Like I said, in real life there are winners and losers. So while it is certainly noble of you to want to share what you found, I wouldn't go out of my way. If they are mature and prudent enough, they will find their way here sooner or later.


Image

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:06 pm
by Alpine
I don't like sharing.

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:08 pm
by kaiser
I mean, if its a friend of yours, of course help them out. But if its just some kid you know from school, who cares?

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:10 pm
by beach_terror
kaiser wrote:Think back to how you firm came across TLS. Did you have a friend refer you here? Or were you diligently trying to learn more about law schools and just came upon the site? If you are like me, you are the latter. You found this site because you cared enough to do some research, learn more, and be fully informed. I really like law school because not everyone can be a winner. It isn't that I enjoy seeing people lose out on things. I just think it is the first step in our lives that is halfway reflective of the real world (in that not everyone is going to win). You did your research, and you are in a better position because of it. If those people with the TTTT brochures didn't do theirs, then that is their fault. Like I said, in real life there are winners and losers. So while it is certainly noble of you to want to share what you found, I wouldn't go out of my way. If they are mature and prudent enough, they will find their way here sooner or later.

Definitely agree with this. There's a reason most posters who frequent TLS do well in law school - we're a certain breed of people. Seeking out information to make an informed law school decision definitely speaks to our personalities when it comes to learning, IMO. I'm not commenting on whether this is a good or bad thing.

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:33 pm
by lulzalicious
I definitely agree with the sentiment that people that care enough will find their way here. But I think a lot of people are so misinformed about 'Law School' and the prestige etc that the thought doesnt even occur to them to 'look into it, just in case'.

A few months ago I tried to tell this girl to aim higher than a 15X for her LSAT because the schools that would take that would just land her in debt/unemployment. I was met with an angry rant about being an 'overly competitive c***'.

The people I care about though I will force this info down their fucking throats.

Maybe sending an email to an entire pre-law listserve or something with a link to a relevant thread on this kind of site etc..? I used to do shit like that for diff political campaigns and it always got a few extra ppl on board... Dunno, seems unfair so many ppl should get so royally screwed because they trust Law School reps and the 'conventional wisdom' that a JD = bling.

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:39 pm
by Dr. Filth
North wrote:Today my University held its annual Graduate and Professional School Expo and, unsurprisingly, what seemed like every single one of the worst law schools in the nation set up shop in our union. They had colorful tablecloths and card-stock information sheets about their world-renowned concentrations in space, sports, and international human rights law.

During the Expo, I had several conversations with various acquaintances about their plans. Almost all of them had a fistful of brochures and business cards from TTTTs and spoke very confidently about their plans to go a TTTT and then set up their own firm/fly around the world doing international law/go to all their clients games as their sports law counsel/et cetera.

Here was the problem: I'm on TLS and I know that 90% of the information these kids were basing serious, expensive life decisions on was almost entirely false; that going to a TTTT will only land them $150,000 in non-dischargeable debt; that they will probably never, ever work in the largely imaginary fields they're so excited about; and that they will likely struggle to find a job as a lawyer at all.

How, though, do you tell somebody any of those things -- how do we evangelize those without the TLS wisdom -- without sounding like a TOTAL DOUCHEBAG? I spent most of my time nodding and offering noncommittal "yeahs," but I felt like I was doing them a disservice by not crushing their plans. Was not saying anything the way to go? I suppose I don't go up to every person I see outside smoking and offer them information on the detriments of smoking that I think they need to know. What do you think?


If this has been discussed at length in the past, I apologize. There wasn't an easy search-term for this.

Where do you go? Because I totally did this today too.

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:39 pm
by prezidentv8
lulzalicious wrote:The people I care about though I will force this info down their fucking throats.


As well you should. One guy I know had a 3.9x GPA and was going to take the LSAT on about a week's worth of studying. My mom ran into him somewhere, he mentioned it, my mom told me, and I gave that guy a call and gave him the necessary talk. Painful but gotta do it.

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:44 pm
by mrloblaw
prezidentv8 wrote:
lulzalicious wrote:The people I care about though I will force this info down their fucking throats.


As well you should. One guy I know had a 3.9x GPA and was going to take the LSAT on about a week's worth of studying. My mom ran into him somewhere, he mentioned it, my mom told me, and I gave that guy a call and gave him the necessary talk. Painful but gotta do it.


I didn't find this website in time, took the LSAT with no prep whatsoever, and screwed myself out of HYS. Maybe I'm just bitter, but I say don't share ^&*%.

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:54 pm
by Bildungsroman
mrloblaw wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
lulzalicious wrote:The people I care about though I will force this info down their fucking throats.


As well you should. One guy I know had a 3.9x GPA and was going to take the LSAT on about a week's worth of studying. My mom ran into him somewhere, he mentioned it, my mom told me, and I gave that guy a call and gave him the necessary talk. Painful but gotta do it.


I didn't find this website in time, took the LSAT with no prep whatsoever, and screwed myself out of HYS. Maybe I'm just bitter, but I say don't share ^&*%.

you mad. also, a good example of why people fucking hate law students.

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:57 pm
by lulzalicious
mrloblaw wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
lulzalicious wrote:The people I care about though I will force this info down their fucking throats.


As well you should. One guy I know had a 3.9x GPA and was going to take the LSAT on about a week's worth of studying. My mom ran into him somewhere, he mentioned it, my mom told me, and I gave that guy a call and gave him the necessary talk. Painful but gotta do it.


I didn't find this website in time, took the LSAT with no prep whatsoever, and screwed myself out of HYS. Maybe I'm just bitter, but I say don't share ^&*%.


Thats not a maybe lol. Seriously though, dont be 'that' guy. Holding info back from other people isnt going to help you in any way but could really fuck over other people. If its any consolation, most people are screwed out of HYS even with previous TLS-knowledge and sufficient LSAT-prep so its prob not something you woulda had to worry about anyways. (thats not supposed to sound as bitchy as it looks :) )

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:13 pm
by Seneca
It's tough to watch people make uneducated choices, but I wouldn't overtly offer any advice to a random person unless I was directly asked. If the conversation comes up with an acquaintance, you can drop comments like, "Have you Googled median scores and GPAs for other schools yet? I found that so helpful." Any number of law school-related queries will turn up links to TLS (that's how I found it), and you can set them up to find the info they need without sounding pretentious. I've had more direct conversations with friends of mine. I'm constantly surprised at how many otherwise thorough people just assume they're done for because of a low GPA (especially since the "splitter effect" isn't in play as much for undergrad or other grad school programs), don't know how important the LSAT is, don't realize how crucial law school reputation is for employment, etc.

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:15 pm
by Curious1
kaiser wrote:Think back to how you firm came across TLS. Did you have a friend refer you here? Or were you diligently trying to learn more about law schools and just came upon the site? If you are like me, you are the latter. You found this site because you cared enough to do some research, learn more, and be fully informed. I really like law school because not everyone can be a winner. It isn't that I enjoy seeing people lose out on things. I just think it is the first step in our lives that is halfway reflective of the real world (in that not everyone is going to win). You did your research, and you are in a better position because of it. If those people with the TTTT brochures didn't do theirs, then that is their fault. Like I said, in real life there are winners and losers. So while it is certainly noble of you to want to share what you found, I wouldn't go out of my way. If they are mature and prudent enough, they will find their way here sooner or later.


Well said. Just like in life, not everyone can be winners. If they're really good friends though it might suck to not say something. All of my friends who want law school HAVE found this site--either through me obsessively checking it when I'm around them or through independent research.

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:08 am
by ThreeRivers
Curious1 wrote:
kaiser wrote:Think back to how you firm came across TLS. Did you have a friend refer you here? Or were you diligently trying to learn more about law schools and just came upon the site? If you are like me, you are the latter. You found this site because you cared enough to do some research, learn more, and be fully informed. I really like law school because not everyone can be a winner. It isn't that I enjoy seeing people lose out on things. I just think it is the first step in our lives that is halfway reflective of the real world (in that not everyone is going to win). You did your research, and you are in a better position because of it. If those people with the TTTT brochures didn't do theirs, then that is their fault. Like I said, in real life there are winners and losers. So while it is certainly noble of you to want to share what you found, I wouldn't go out of my way. If they are mature and prudent enough, they will find their way here sooner or later.


Well said. Just like in life, not everyone can be winners. If they're really good friends though it might suck to not say something. All of my friends who want law school HAVE found this site--either through me obsessively checking it when I'm around them or through independent research.

I only came across this site because I have a Google addiction... I Google way too much

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:19 am
by rinkrat19
Luckily, I don't have any friends also considering law school. One of the benefits of having graduated in 2002.

I don't even remember how I found this site. Possibly googling "law school rankings" or something. (Just tried that...yep, TLS is the top result, before even USNWR!)

I wish I'd found it more than 5 days before my LSAT date, because if I got a 171 with the half-assed studying I did, I know I could've hit the mid-170s if I'd followed a proper plan like Pithypike. (Fortunately I got into a school I like anyway.)

I think I'd only bother to try and "convert" people I actually cared about. There's just not enough time or energy in the world to save EVERY ill-advised law school hopeful from themselves. And chances are, most people who aren't your friends/family won't listen anyway.

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:21 am
by JamMasterJ
Not everyone is born and bred for success and achievement

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:34 am
by mickeyD
I've given "the talk" multiple times. Anybody that I care about who mentions law school gets it.

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:36 am
by UnamSanctam
I've been dubbed an elitist for what TLS has done to me. So be it. I don't care about how people think of me, I just want to reach a few people.

lol at how this post sounds like the spread of the actual Gospels.

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:39 am
by JamMasterJ
UnamSanctam wrote:I've been dubbed an elitist for what TLS has done to me. So be it. I don't care about how people think of me, I just want to reach a few people.

lol at how this post sounds like the spread of the actual Gospels.

haters gon hate

Re: How do we spread the TLS Gospel?

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:49 am
by MrPapagiorgio
Curious1 wrote:Just like in life, not everyone can be winners.

Words to live by.