I am not alone!

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CanuckObserver
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Re: I am not alone!

Postby CanuckObserver » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:50 pm

Sirhcyam wrote:
Last post on TLS until after I get my LSAT score:

So, you are married? Possibly with kids? Maybe in a house you took out a mortgage for?

I'm sorry, these kinds of problems simply do not represent the lifestyle of an average law school graduate. I'm talking about people who are coming out of college without families or any plans to live in anything other than the small for-rent apartments that most twenty-something year olds live in. If you can't afford a small apartment with all the loans, then you have two options: live with parents or get roommates. Simple as that. I think you guys are really confusing my argument about law school. I make no claim that upon graduation you will be able to live very comfortably, put a down payment on a home, or even afford a nice car. Know any doctors who can do that until after their 30th birthday? I simply suggest that, by the time you're 50, you will *most likely* be in a better position financially than your friend who decided to be an accountant, a teacher, a nurse, or (for the vast majority) an engineer. If you went to an Ivy League caliber school and a lot of your friends are getting jobs in i-banking that pay north of 100K straight out of undergrad, then fine. You win. Law school (outside of top of the class at a T14) is definitely a losing game. As far as the people who don't/can't get jobs in law upon passing the bar, they either need to try harder or open up their own firm.

If I am wrong, so be it. But I think my claims are rather modest.


I am married, but I did not live with or marry my spouse until about a year after law school. We are both in our 30's. We now live in a small basement apartment which costs us $1,100 and is in the realm of the cheaper places you can get around here (not a big high cost of living city, but availability is an issue that raises costs). We have no intention of a mortgage for a long while and will be renting for at least another 3+ years. No children, one reason being we can't afford them right now - including not only the straight out costs, but also the loss of income, even temporarily! We do not live near our families, as that is not where the jobs were. Nor could our families take us in - they have health issues and other things going on.

And what do you know about the lifestyle of the "average law graduate"? A huge number of people I went to school with had prior work experience (some law schools almost demand it!), were living on their own or with a spouse/partner, many had children and families of their own, many were away from home and found work away from home as their parents lived where they did not or could not live, many were starting in their late 20s/early 30s etc.

You make opening up your own firm seem so simple. It's not. It requires not only knowledge of the practice of law (which you have zero of at graduation) but also the ability to run a business - particularly a legal business with all its requirements for trust accounting and so forth.

"Try harder" ranks right up there with "network" in terms of naive advice.

As for "where they are at when they are 50", many of the accountants, nurses, engineers I know well are doing very well as they saved themselves $150,000 in tuition, 3 more years of lost opportunity costs, and many years of servicing their loan debt (so they could save more, etc). Some of the accountants and engineers I know are partners in their own firms or consulting businesses and doing very well.

You really do come across as VERY naive about the "cost of life".

I love my career. I am doing well at it. I do not regret law school at all. But I will also say that it was an incredibly stressful choice financially, and I would not encourage anyone to go to law school unless they were 100% certain as you can be before you ever try it that they wanted to be a lawyer (not going just wanting to "open other doors"), could greatly minimize the debt (scholarship, savings) and were going to a school that greatly improved their odds of stable employment (i.e. something in the T14 at minimum if you are in the US). That does not necessarily mean Big Law, but it does mean something stable with a salary that can allow you to live without having to depend on others for hand outs (such as your parents).
Last edited by CanuckObserver on Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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caputlupinum
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Re: I am not alone!

Postby caputlupinum » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:51 pm

Tom Joad wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
caputlupinum wrote:OP 99% of people on here see the only way as big law. Most are extremely pessimistic about life in general. There is no point arguing with these people. The only attorneys that are worth anything in their eyes are the ones who work for a NLJ250/AIII/gov out of law school all others suck at life. Who cares let them think what they want. I may be crazy as hell but every time I take off at an airport I say to myself if I crash and burn now I know I tried to do everything I ever wanted to do and I had one hell of a time doing it.

This is such a gross, unfair characterization of what people ITT and on TLS generally think.


Yeah I have to think the retake, shoot for a better school mentality shows an innate optimistic attitude that people can improve their lives. If I had to bet, a lot of people that post on TLS will have lots of success in their lives in the field of law and other areas. Look at Ken, he gets on MSNBC because he is such a boss.


I lived in a doorman Chelsea 1bd making 6 figs when I was 19. I went back to school not to improve my life, I know I can always make it rain. I went back to pursue a career in something that I will love to do. Please refer to what you retards said when you were in highschool, "if you don't go to college you will never make it in life" and I was laughing all the way to the bank. When you say "if you don't go to T14 you will never make it" I know the same ignorance exist in this statement as the one they told me in high school... Are sales jobs extremely competitive without a college degree? Yes. Could you never close a single lead? Yes. Could you make it rain as a super closer at the age of 19? Yes and I did. Are plaintiff med mal/product liability/toxic tort highly competitive? Yes. Could you be a shitty litigator? Yes. Could you make it rain as a tort king? Yes. Will I? Who knows, but I'm gonna give em hell.

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romothesavior
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Re: I am not alone!

Postby romothesavior » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:52 pm

caputlupinum wrote:I lived in a doorman Chelsea 1bd making 6 figs when I was 19. I went back to school not to improve my life, I know I can always make it rain. I went back to pursue a career in something that I will love to do. Please refer to what you retards said when you were in highschool, "if you don't go to college you will never make it in life" and I was laughing all the way to the bank. When you say "if you don't go to T14 you will never make it" I know the same ignorance exist in this statement as the one they told me in high school... Are sales jobs extremely competitive without a college degree? Yes. Could you never close a single lead? Yes. Could you make it rain as a super closer at the age of 19? Yes and I did. Are plaintiff med mal/product liability/toxic tort highly competitive? Yes. Could you be a shitty litigator? Yes. Could you make it rain as a tort king? Yes. Will I? Who knows, but I'm gonna give em hell.

My god your suckiness is just everywhere these days.

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caputlupinum
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Re: I am not alone!

Postby caputlupinum » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:54 pm

romothesavior wrote:
caputlupinum wrote:I lived in a doorman Chelsea 1bd making 6 figs when I was 19. I went back to school not to improve my life, I know I can always make it rain. I went back to pursue a career in something that I will love to do. Please refer to what you retards said when you were in highschool, "if you don't go to college you will never make it in life" and I was laughing all the way to the bank. When you say "if you don't go to T14 you will never make it" I know the same ignorance exist in this statement as the one they told me in high school... Are sales jobs extremely competitive without a college degree? Yes. Could you never close a single lead? Yes. Could you make it rain as a super closer at the age of 19? Yes and I did. Are plaintiff med mal/product liability/toxic tort highly competitive? Yes. Could you be a shitty litigator? Yes. Could you make it rain as a tort king? Yes. Will I? Who knows, but I'm gonna give em hell.

My god your suckiness is just everywhere these days.


bow before me bitch

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Grizz
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Re: I am not alone!

Postby Grizz » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:59 pm

caputlupinum wrote:I lived in a doorman Chelsea 1bd making 6 figs when I was 19. I went back to school not to improve my life, I know I can always make it rain. I went back to pursue a career in something that I will love to do. Please refer to what you retards said when you were in highschool, "if you don't go to college you will never make it in life" and I was laughing all the way to the bank. When you say "if you don't go to T14 you will never make it" I know the same ignorance exist in this statement as the one they told me in high school... Are sales jobs extremely competitive without a college degree? Yes. Could you never close a single lead? Yes. Could you make it rain as a super closer at the age of 19? Yes and I did. Are plaintiff med mal/product liability/toxic tort highly competitive? Yes. Could you be a shitty litigator? Yes. Could you make it rain as a tort king? Yes. Will I? Who knows, but I'm gonna give em hell.

zero fucks

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caputlupinum
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Re: I am not alone!

Postby caputlupinum » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:07 pm

Grizz wrote:
caputlupinum wrote:I lived in a doorman Chelsea 1bd making 6 figs when I was 19. I went back to school not to improve my life, I know I can always make it rain. I went back to pursue a career in something that I will love to do. Please refer to what you retards said when you were in highschool, "if you don't go to college you will never make it in life" and I was laughing all the way to the bank. When you say "if you don't go to T14 you will never make it" I know the same ignorance exist in this statement as the one they told me in high school... Are sales jobs extremely competitive without a college degree? Yes. Could you never close a single lead? Yes. Could you make it rain as a super closer at the age of 19? Yes and I did. Are plaintiff med mal/product liability/toxic tort highly competitive? Yes. Could you be a shitty litigator? Yes. Could you make it rain as a tort king? Yes. Will I? Who knows, but I'm gonna give em hell.

zero fucks


can I shoot it down your throat?

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Grizz
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Re: I am not alone!

Postby Grizz » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:09 pm

caputlupinum wrote:
Grizz wrote:
caputlupinum wrote:I lived in a doorman Chelsea 1bd making 6 figs when I was 19. I went back to school not to improve my life, I know I can always make it rain. I went back to pursue a career in something that I will love to do. Please refer to what you retards said when you were in highschool, "if you don't go to college you will never make it in life" and I was laughing all the way to the bank. When you say "if you don't go to T14 you will never make it" I know the same ignorance exist in this statement as the one they told me in high school... Are sales jobs extremely competitive without a college degree? Yes. Could you never close a single lead? Yes. Could you make it rain as a super closer at the age of 19? Yes and I did. Are plaintiff med mal/product liability/toxic tort highly competitive? Yes. Could you be a shitty litigator? Yes. Could you make it rain as a tort king? Yes. Will I? Who knows, but I'm gonna give em hell.

zero fucks


can I shoot it down your throat?

???

Try again.

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caputlupinum
Posts: 105
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Re: I am not alone!

Postby caputlupinum » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:10 pm

Grizz wrote:
caputlupinum wrote:
Grizz wrote:
caputlupinum wrote:I lived in a doorman Chelsea 1bd making 6 figs when I was 19. I went back to school not to improve my life, I know I can always make it rain. I went back to pursue a career in something that I will love to do. Please refer to what you retards said when you were in highschool, "if you don't go to college you will never make it in life" and I was laughing all the way to the bank. When you say "if you don't go to T14 you will never make it" I know the same ignorance exist in this statement as the one they told me in high school... Are sales jobs extremely competitive without a college degree? Yes. Could you never close a single lead? Yes. Could you make it rain as a super closer at the age of 19? Yes and I did. Are plaintiff med mal/product liability/toxic tort highly competitive? Yes. Could you be a shitty litigator? Yes. Could you make it rain as a tort king? Yes. Will I? Who knows, but I'm gonna give em hell.

zero fucks


can I shoot it down your throat?

???

Try again.


3 times is tops for me what do I look like a speedballer

KamaalTheAbstract
Posts: 124
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Re: I am not alone!

Postby KamaalTheAbstract » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:12 pm

Really guys, there is nothing that can be said to convince people with shitty job prospects that they are making/have made a huge mistake. It's like human psychology or some shit. They just see what you say accuse you of groupthink or give you some anecdotal evidence about other successful TTT grads. Its like talking to a rock.

Curious1
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Re: I am not alone!

Postby Curious1 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:14 pm

KamaalTheAbstract wrote:Really guys, there is nothing that can be said to convince people with shitty job prospects that they are making/have made a huge mistake. It's like human psychology or some shit. They just see what you say accuse you of groupthink or give you some anecdotal evidence about other successful TTT grads. Its like talking to a rock.


True. I've done all I can to convince OP to retake/wait a year/get WE/not go to a TT, but if he insists and succeeds, good for him. If he fails we'll always need the working classes to open our doors and pump our gas.
Last edited by Curious1 on Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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caputlupinum
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Re: I am not alone!

Postby caputlupinum » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:14 pm

KamaalTheAbstract wrote:Really guys, there is nothing that can be said to convince people with shitty job prospects that they are making/have made a huge mistake. It's like human psychology or some shit. They just see what you say accuse you of groupthink or give you some anecdotal evidence about other successful TTT grads. Its like talking to a rock.

For real if I get in (by chance) to Ava Maria, I know bitches will bow before me!!!

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minnbills
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Re: I am not alone!

Postby minnbills » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:24 pm

Curious1 wrote:True. I've done all I can to convince OP to retake/wait a year/get WE/not go to a TT, but if he insists and succeeds, good for him. If he fails we'll always need the working classes to open our doors and pump our gas.


I think it's fairly obvious that he's either trolling you guys or this discussion has been fleshed out as far as it can go.

People came in and put out good info that lurkers will have to help them in their decisions. Other than that, no reason to beat a dead horse.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: I am not alone!

Postby Blessedassurance » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:44 pm

Sirhcyam wrote:
My point is simple: everyone whines about how hard it is to get a job as a lawyer in this economy. What they don't understand is that a key reason for why people are not getting jobs as lawyers may be because they have not yet passed the bar.


Doc review gigs now have bar-passage requirements. In other words, doc reviewers have already passed the bar.You don't quite grasp the magnitude of the problem.

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prezidentv8
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Re: I am not alone!

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:33 pm

This...

Kilpatrick wrote:I wish there was an alert system so I could get an email every time this guy makes a new thread. So far all of his threads have been hilarious. His track record is impeccable.


and this.

romothesavior wrote:Image

theLastZion
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 8:54 am

Re: I am not alone!

Postby theLastZion » Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:58 pm

lol that article has a lot of questionable statistics spun off with a heavy dose of glass-half-full optimism. I'd love to see his take on getting into elementary teaching in this economy.

Curious1
Posts: 964
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:54 pm

Re: I am not alone!

Postby Curious1 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:18 am

theLastZion wrote:lol that article has a lot of questionable statistics spun off with a heavy dose of glass-half-full optimism. I'd love to see his take on getting into elementary teaching in this economy.


It's actually pretty sweet that not everyone on this board is a jaded bastard. But I'm sure OP will become one once he realizes how bad things actually are. I used to kinda be like him...but you guys have set me straight. Thanks.

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Patriot1208
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Re: I am not alone!

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:29 am

Image

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romothesavior
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Re: I am not alone!

Postby romothesavior » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:20 pm

Wow, I didn't read OP's other thread until just now. Looks like a real riot.

OP, you're a real shit-nugget and a half. When a bunch of your law school friends from the blue collar peasantry wind up unemployed with their mountains of TTT debt, maybe you'll finally get a clue. Assuming, of course, you make any friends in law school without super-rich daddies who can just bail them out. I mean, they are so hard to find! I only know like 2-3 people in my entire school whose parents aren't millionaires!




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