Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

(Please Ask Questions and Answer Questions)
psm11
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:53 pm

Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby psm11 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:27 pm

I was wondering if anyone on here, who went to Duquense Law or are currently enrolled, could tell me what kind of offers are students getting? Specifically, what kind of summer and or permanent offers do those who end up in the top 20% and law review get? It seems Reed Smith and K&L Gates have a high number of Duquense grads which is pretty impressive considering they are both BigLaw. I know Duquense is a Tier 4 school so please don't post things like Tier 4= no employment. Surprisingly, Duquense places pretty well in Pittsburgh--much better than it's Tier 4 ranking would lead many to believe.

User avatar
descartesb4thehorse
Posts: 1147
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:03 am

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:32 pm

psm11 wrote:I was wondering if anyone on here, who went to Duquense Law or are currently enrolled, could tell me what kind of offers are students getting? Specifically, what kind of summer and or permanent offers do those who end up in the top 20% and law review get? It seems Reed Smith and K&L Gates have a high number of Duquense grads which is pretty impressive considering they are both BigLaw. I know Duquense is a Tier 4 school so please don't post things like Tier 4= no employment. Surprisingly, Duquense places pretty well in Pittsburgh--much better than it's Tier 4 ranking would lead many to believe.


All of this is false. I know 09, 10 grads from Duquesne. Number 1 in the class for one of those years, I forget which, couldn't find a job; I think he eventually lucked into some shitlaw in the middle of rural PA. Having employees from a certain school is not a metric you can use anymore. People didn't need as much to get their foot in the door before. That doesn't mean they aren't good employees or that they'll get let go just based on where they got their JD, but those opportunities are no longer there ITT. You're not going to get amazing, good, or even decent job prospects coming out of Duquesne, even if you're at the top.

Find me a Duquesne grad from the past 3 years who is working in biglaw, and I'll show you a remarkably transparent case of nepotism.

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby Bildungsroman » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:35 pm

Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Bad.

psm11
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:53 pm

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby psm11 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:54 pm

descartesb4thehorse wrote:
psm11 wrote:I was wondering if anyone on here, who went to Duquense Law or are currently enrolled, could tell me what kind of offers are students getting? Specifically, what kind of summer and or permanent offers do those who end up in the top 20% and law review get? It seems Reed Smith and K&L Gates have a high number of Duquense grads which is pretty impressive considering they are both BigLaw. I know Duquense is a Tier 4 school so please don't post things like Tier 4= no employment. Surprisingly, Duquense places pretty well in Pittsburgh--much better than it's Tier 4 ranking would lead many to believe.


All of this is false. I know 09, 10 grads from Duquesne. Number 1 in the class for one of those years, I forget which, couldn't find a job; I think he eventually lucked into some shitlaw in the middle of rural PA. Having employees from a certain school is not a metric you can use anymore. People didn't need as much to get their foot in the door before. That doesn't mean they aren't good employees or that they'll get let go just based on where they got their JD, but those opportunities are no longer there ITT. You're not going to get amazing, good, or even decent job prospects coming out of Duquesne, even if you're at the top.

Find me a Duquesne grad from the past 3 years who is working in biglaw, and I'll show you a remarkably transparent case of nepotism.



I was just on K&L Gates website and there are about 10 associates hired between 08 and 10 from Duquense. I'm not someone who is die hard Duq but I'm constantly hearing from people how it's a good school to go to if you want to practice in Pittsburgh. I'm just trying to get some real info.

psm11
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:53 pm

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby psm11 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:01 pm

What I don't understand is how K&L Gates hires 10 people from Duq in the last 2-3 years but only hires 3-4 people from Pitt in the last 2 years, which is a much better ranked school.

User avatar
descartesb4thehorse
Posts: 1147
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:03 am

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:09 pm

I would not rely on 2008 numbers. Recession started hitting law school grads in 2009. I checked the website, too. 3 2009 grads, 1 2010 grad, 0 2011 grads. If you want to gamble on grabbing one of those 1 to maybe 3 spots, a 150k+ gamble, by all means. But Pitt grads, even if only a few more are at K&L Gates, are in much better shape. For one thing, they didn't spend 100k on tuition at a privaTTTe school.

TL;DR: --LinkRemoved--

/thread

psm11
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:53 pm

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby psm11 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:12 pm

descartesb4thehorse wrote:I would not rely on 2008 numbers. Recession started hitting law school grads in 2009. I checked the website, too. 3 2009 grads, 1 2010 grad, 0 2011 grads. If you want to gamble on grabbing one of those 1 to maybe 3 spots, a 150k+ gamble, by all means. But Pitt grads, even if only a few more are at K&L Gates, are in much better shape. For one thing, they didn't spend 100k on tuition at a privaTTTe school.

TL;DR: --LinkRemoved--

/thread


I'm not at all impressed with Duquense. I was only concerned for two reasons: the first being that they offered me a substantial scholarship last year and two, I can't stand all the people who run around acting like it is this great prestigious law school. I am leaning toward Pitt bc of the tuition but I'm still skeptical about what kind of job I could secure in 3 years with a JD from them.

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby Grizz » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:13 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Bad.

Came ITT to post exactly this.

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby Bildungsroman » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:16 pm

psm11 wrote:What I don't understand is how K&L Gates hires 10 people from Duq in the last 2-3 years but only hires 3-4 people from Pitt in the last 2 years, which is a much better ranked school.

I only counted 5 associates from Duquesne firm-wide who have been hired 2009 or later, 4 of whom graduated summa cum laude (with the fifth only graduating magna). Not that much more impressive than Pitt's 3 hires 2009 or later, especially considering that nobody is saying that third-rate school is much better than Duquesne. The point is that they're both terrible.

User avatar
ThreeRivers
Posts: 1142
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby ThreeRivers » Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:00 am

Bildungsroman wrote:
psm11 wrote:What I don't understand is how K&L Gates hires 10 people from Duq in the last 2-3 years but only hires 3-4 people from Pitt in the last 2 years, which is a much better ranked school.

I only counted 5 associates from Duquesne firm-wide who have been hired 2009 or later, 4 of whom graduated summa cum laude (with the fifth only graduating magna). Not that much more impressive than Pitt's 3 hires 2009 or later, especially considering that nobody is saying that third-rate school is much better than Duquesne. The point is that they're both terrible.

If you're looking for a job in Pittsburgh Pitt is a good school imo. Pitt was ranked in the 40's not too long ago before the current dean who is taking over decided to fuck all of that up, hopefully a return comes... either way its good if you desire to work in Pittsburgh

User avatar
top30man
Posts: 1224
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:11 pm

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby top30man » Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:36 am

If you're looking for a job in Pittsburgh Pitt is a good school imo. Pitt was ranked in the 40's not too long ago before the current dean who is taking over decided to fuck all of that up, hopefully a return comes... either way its good if you desire to work in Pittsburgh


Pitt is good for Pittsburgh, though I know several students (5-6) from last year, one got a PI gig, one is in shitlaw, and the rest are scrambling for a JD required job.
Also, depending on your numbers, it is not a good place for finaid. They only give out half rides max to anyone at their 75th percentile lsat. Therefore, if you are above the 75th, you might be better suited going elsewhere that would give more $$/be better ranked. There is an exception of a few full rides they give out to URM students.

User avatar
ThreeRivers
Posts: 1142
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby ThreeRivers » Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:44 am

top30man wrote:
If you're looking for a job in Pittsburgh Pitt is a good school imo. Pitt was ranked in the 40's not too long ago before the current dean who is taking over decided to fuck all of that up, hopefully a return comes... either way its good if you desire to work in Pittsburgh


Pitt is good for Pittsburgh, though I know several students (5-6) from last year, one got a PI gig, one is in shitlaw, and the rest are scrambling for a JD required job.
Also, depending on your numbers, it is not a good place for finaid. They only give out half rides max to anyone at their 75th percentile lsat. Therefore, if you are above the 75th, you might be better suited going elsewhere that would give more $$/be better ranked. There is an exception of a few full rides they give out to URM students.

Yea, Pitt's strategy seems to be giving a little to almost everyone rather than a ton to overachievers which if they want to boost their median's should probably be reversed. If your numbers are far superior than yes of course T14 is a better situation that Pitt. Basically though this is how I view Pitt

1. If you want to work in Pittsburgh its a good school
2. If you want to work ANYWHERE else don't go there

MrAnon
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby MrAnon » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:26 am

Really poor. If some firm is hiring 3 grads per year on average as you said then those grads are in top 3-5%, not top 20%. Don't be fooled.

This story is applicable:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11241/1170127-499-0.stm

User avatar
ThreeRivers
Posts: 1142
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby ThreeRivers » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:50 am

MrAnon wrote:Really poor. If some firm is hiring 3 grads per year on average as you said then those grads are in top 3-5%, not top 20%. Don't be fooled.

This story is applicable:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11241/1170127-499-0.stm

Everyone knows the law market is shitty but the main example the story bases itself around is annoying to me. "NUMBER 1 IN CLASS AND CAN'T FIND JOB"... meanwhile 3 months after graduation he had a 100 k + job. It also states he submitted 24 apps and was rejected by "MORE THAN HALF."

So this guy was weighing potentially 11 job offers before selecting his 6 figure salary...

bhan87
Posts: 850
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:08 pm

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby bhan87 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:28 am

Staff Attorney =/= Associates

Even pre-ITE, Duquense grads were only getting hired to fill staff attorney positions, which only pay around 40-50k a year and are very similar to doc review jobs. The only difference is you stick with one firm.

TBH, you'd be better off just going the paralegal route because it pays almost the same, but you won't need to pay back soul-crushing debt.

User avatar
top30man
Posts: 1224
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:11 pm

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby top30man » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:04 pm

Even pre-ITE, Duquense grads were only getting hired to fill staff attorney positions, which only pay around 40-50k a year and are very similar to doc review jobs.


Very true. I am an undergrad at one of the three big pittsburgh schools (Pitt/Duq/CMU) and Duq law students have had trouble getting paralegal work even. Duquesne brags about how Thorp/Reed/Buchanon all OCI at duquesne, but there is a big difference between interviewing somewhere and hiring from somewhere. I personally know a recent Duq Law grad that was on law review and is now at a very small personal injury shop. And that is what the top 5% is getting...

User avatar
joeshmo39
Posts: 533
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:15 am

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby joeshmo39 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:15 pm

Wow, I didn't know it was this bad. I always thought Duquesne and Pitt did well in the Pittsburgh market, it's a very insular market. Maybe the recession hurt these schools more than other schools in bigger markets. I know a lot of people at these schools, makes me wonder how they're doing. Also makes me glad I made the decisions I made.

lawdooder
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:48 am

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby lawdooder » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:20 pm

joeshmo39 wrote:Wow, I didn't know it was this bad. I always thought Duquesne and Pitt did well in the Pittsburgh market, it's a very insular market. Maybe the recession hurt these schools more than other schools in bigger markets. I know a lot of people at these schools, makes me wonder how they're doing. Also makes me glad I made the decisions I made.


There are a lot of insular markets where TTT schools reside. That doesn't mean those markets give a sh*t about them.

User avatar
top30man
Posts: 1224
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:11 pm

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby top30man » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:23 pm

Pitt is still a solid option for many people. It has the advantage of being the top school in its market even though its a TT. I would say that if you are at or below their 75th LSAT and want to stay in Pittsburgh, its a solid choice.
That being said, the biglaw firms in town seem to be hiring more T14 grads recently (UVA and GULC come to mind from anecdotal evidence).
The other problem is that there are only 3 NLJ250 firms hq'd here. There are other satellite offices from other biglaw firms (DM for example) but SA classes are, by nature, small.

SwampRat88
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:23 pm

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby SwampRat88 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:27 pm

..
Last edited by SwampRat88 on Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
top30man
Posts: 1224
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:11 pm

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby top30man » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:33 pm

So as long as you understand that shitlaw is the "light" at the end of the tunnel, by all means, go for it. I doubt I'll be in the top of my class, but luckily my S/O is a MD and I have a partial scholarship. So to me, shitlaw is an acceptable outcome


Very astute. Make the choice depending on your career goals. Do not go to Pitt for "biglaw." Even during the good times 2005-2007 Pitt was only placing 6-8% in biglaw.
Also, there are not many midlaw firms in Pittsburgh. Obviously Thorp is the one everyone knows, and has an SA program, but most of the firms that hire Pitt grads are personal injury with less than 30 lawyers. If thats fine with your goals, go for it.

MrAnon
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby MrAnon » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:38 pm

When you are attending a T2 or whatever school you need to put things in perspective. Big firms are looking for elite students. Not students who got middling LSAT scores, were rejected by their top choice law school, and then finished behind 25 people at Duquesne. Why would a firm want such a person? They were slow to grasp LSAT, better law school didn't want em, and they were not the most adept at law school course work. Its terrific that they did okay but that is really nothing special. Firms want people who can really rapidly grasp concepts and deal with a lot of work in a limited period of time. Your average law school grad doesn't fit that mold.

lawdooder
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:48 am

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby lawdooder » Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:24 pm

MrAnon wrote:When you are attending a T2 or whatever school you need to put things in perspective. Big firms are looking for elite students. Not students who got middling LSAT scores, were rejected by their top choice law school, and then finished behind 25 people at Duquesne. Why would a firm want such a person? They were slow to grasp LSAT, better law school didn't want em, and they were not the most adept at law school course work. Its terrific that they did okay but that is really nothing special. Firms want people who can really rapidly grasp concepts and deal with a lot of work in a limited period of time. Your average law school grad doesn't fit that mold.


I love how people presume to know what law firms are looking for. I go to CCN so I have a vested interest in perpetuating the mythology that we "get it" faster, better, etc. but do you really think the average law school grad couldn't handle the complexity of biglaw ? Or is possible -- indeed, likely -- that law firms just have a limited # of slots and therefore default to the most "elite" grads since they make their "pitch" attractive to prospective clients.

MrAnon
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby MrAnon » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:33 pm

Yes. the average T2 median student is much slower than the average CCN student at virtually everything academic. They missed more questions on the LSAT, had worse grades in college. Why do you think they are on even level exactly? The CCN student has either been gunning for a top school or else things fell into place for him/her very rapidly when he/she decided at last minute to go to law school, i.e. they already had top grades without gunning and they made a great LSAT score with very little effort. The T2 student has been gunning and didn't make it very far or else decided at the last minute for law school and his/her scores and GPA were not impressive.

flcath
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Employment Prospects Out Of Duquense Law

Postby flcath » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:54 pm

MrAnon wrote:Yes. the average T2 median student is much slower than the average CCN student at virtually everything academic. They missed more questions on the LSAT, had worse grades in college. Why do you think they are on even level exactly? The CCN student has either been gunning for a top school or else things fell into place for him/her very rapidly when he/she decided at last minute to go to law school, i.e. they already had top grades without gunning and they made a great LSAT score with very little effort. The T2 student has been gunning and didn't make it very far or else decided at the last minute for law school and his/her scores and GPA were not impressive.

If it were just about intelligence then they'd just go by the LSAT.




Return to “Law School FAQ”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests