Average Salary coming out of Law School

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SarahKerrigan
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby SarahKerrigan » Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:26 pm

MTal wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:ITT: MTal induces the lulz





At him, not with him


Enjoy your time in law school:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M98x-FLp7E

That video is awesome haha. the "honest college Ad" one is good also.

Danteshek
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby Danteshek » Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:35 pm

SarahKerrigan wrote:
Miami781 wrote:I honestly don't know if I want to go to law school if I am going to be making 45k a year....

I feel like I could work at McDonald's 8 hours a day and make 30k a year...

It is not worth being a lawyer financially unless it is at least 70k coming out of law school to pay off massive loans between undergrad and J.D.


Start looking around the forums more, you will find a few things. 1. go to a school where you get a lot of money. (avoid schools that give you stipulations on that money.). I'm not exactly sure about how stipulations work, i'm still a noob. 2. go to a top school with a national rep (T14). People go to these schools tend to have good job prospects. 3. Local schools can sometimes be good depending on the school. for example, loyola los angeles isn't a top ranked school, but from what i have gathered it performs well in its area (los angeles). But don't go to a school like loyola and expect to find a job in new york. I'm sure some guys younger brothers boyfriends cousin has done it, but for the most part it seems like it doesn't work.


I'll let you know how it goes (though I'm probably moving to DC)

target
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby target » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:13 pm

Miami781 wrote:What is the average salary coming out of law school, obviously this will vary based on certain things, however I am just curious what is a reasonable expectation.

...
I don't want to be a lawyer for the money, it is something I truly want to do, however money is always a factor in life, curious what grads made coming out and anyone else's opinion in general

Thanks!


Nine posts later...

Miami781 wrote:I honestly don't know if I want to go to law school if I am going to be making 45k a year....

I feel like I could work at McDonald's 8 hours a day and make 30k a year...

It is not worth being a lawyer financially unless it is at least 70k coming out of law school to pay off massive loans between undergrad and J.D.


:| :| :|

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minnbills
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby minnbills » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:19 pm

What's the problem with saying that?

Assuming OP has the typical debt load of a law student, 45k/yr is a tough pill to swallow.

Miami781
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby Miami781 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:54 pm

exactly, I want to be a lawyer because it is what I want to do, and am passionate about, however it is unreasonable for me to be in 200k debt from undergrad then another 200k in debt from law school, then make 45k a year

It would take me 9 years to pay back just my schooling let alone bills and such

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Grizz
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby Grizz » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:59 pm

You have $200k in undergrad debt? Jeez that's absurd.

Miami781
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby Miami781 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:09 pm

Correction: my undergrad is costing me 200k, my parents are paying for 50 percent of it so just 100k for me , nonetheless its paying 200k for undergrad then another 200k for law

kaiser
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby kaiser » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:12 pm

Sorry dude, but paying 200K for undergrad is an insanely stupid thing to do. There is nothing that would justify it.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:53 pm

kaiser wrote:Sorry dude, but paying 200K for undergrad is an insanely stupid thing to do. There is nothing that would justify it.



+9432709738572095872458092754098475

Paying half that much for undergrad is insanely stupid.

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SarahKerrigan
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby SarahKerrigan » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:55 pm

kaiser wrote:Sorry dude, but paying 200K for undergrad is an insanely stupid thing to do. There is nothing that would justify it.

Yeah, dang thats a lot of money, ill owe around 44k for undergrad. Well my parents will owe that money, but i plan on paying them back of course(they don't expect me to, but it seems like the right thing to do, especially if i land a good job).

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3v3ryth1ng
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby 3v3ryth1ng » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:56 pm

Miami781 wrote:exactly, I want to be a lawyer because it is what I want to do, and am passionate about, however it is unreasonable for me to be in 200k debt from undergrad then another 200k in debt from law school, then make 45k a year

It would take me 9 years to pay back just my schooling let alone bills and such


It would almost certainly take you longer than 9 years to pay that kind of debt back at 45K a year. But the real truth is (and this is going to piss a lot of people off) there's no replacement for being competent, effective, and cutthroat. There are some very smart people who collect degrees; they think a J.D. from a law school entitles them to something. It doesn't. Furthermore, being smart and qualified doesn't mean you're going to be good at whatever it is you went to school for.

I'm a teacher. I got hired in this recession, in a state where teacher jobs have been cut continually for the last 6 years or so. Many of the kids from my credential programs ended up without jobs. I saw them complaining on Facebook about it. Some of them just gave up. I had to bust my ass making sure that I was not only knowledgeable and talented, but that I exuded that knowledge and talent in my interviews. I also worked very hard to have as many interviews as possible, and I thought "outside the box" to apply to places my peers weren't talking about.

Now I'm the department chair at my school. I did all the hiring/interviews for the English department last summer. There were a TON of applicants from great colleges. MA's and EDd's, from Stanford, Columbia, UCLA, Berkeley, USC (you only need a BA and a credential to be qualified for this job)- I quickly learned that these meant NOTHING. I definitely learned a lot from LORS, their cover letters, and the interview itself. I hired the people I thought would do the best job based on my professional experience. Somewhere, some Stanford MA graduate is complaining that his degree "didn't get me shit."

There's no denying that having a T14 degree is correlated with higher salaries. That's because those schools ONLY select the (supposedly) most hard-working, professional, intelligent, and talented students. That's likely the real reason employment stats look so favorable for them. Yes, some firms only hire from top schools BUT they're not the only firms offering jobs with that kind of salary. You can get the 160K job if you are competent, effective, and cutthroat. The cynical people talking about 45K post-J.D. employment are not worth listening to. They will probably interpret what I'm saying as suggesting they're not competent, effective, or cutthroat. That may be exactly what I'm saying.

All I'm saying is don't go to a great law school thinking it guarantees you a good job, and don't go to a mid-tier law school thinking it shuts you out of any job opportunities. And I think we can all agree that Tier 4 sucks; don't do it. That is all!

kaiser
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby kaiser » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:57 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
kaiser wrote:Sorry dude, but paying 200K for undergrad is an insanely stupid thing to do. There is nothing that would justify it.



+9432709738572095872458092754098475

Paying half that much for undergrad is insanely stupid.


Yeah, I'm trying to think of a single undergrad school or degree worth that much $$. I think of a Harvard or Princeton degree, or one from MIT, and even that doesn't justify such a number. College degrees, to a large extent, are fungible, especially among what one may consider the top "tier" of schools, whether that is defined as top 50 schools, or top 100 schools. The college degree you have matters very little during grad school admissions. It is your GPA figure that matters far more. I don't know enough to say that some college degrees from some schools aren't perhaps worth spending more on than others. But 200K? Never. And the worst part is, such a huge amount on a largely fungible degree cripples your financial situation should you decide on law school and essentially forces you to choose a full ride at a lower ranked school.

acrossthelake
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby acrossthelake » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:05 pm

kaiser wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
kaiser wrote:Sorry dude, but paying 200K for undergrad is an insanely stupid thing to do. There is nothing that would justify it.



+9432709738572095872458092754098475

Paying half that much for undergrad is insanely stupid.


Yeah, I'm trying to think of a single undergrad school or degree worth that much $$. I think of a Harvard or Princeton degree, or one from MIT, and even that doesn't justify such a number. College degrees, to a large extent, are fungible, especially among what one may consider the top "tier" of schools, whether that is defined as top 50 schools, or top 100 schools. The college degree you have matters very little during grad school admissions. It is your GPA figure that matters far more. I don't know enough to say that some college degrees from some schools aren't perhaps worth spending more on than others. But 200K? Never. And the worst part is, such a huge amount on a largely fungible degree cripples your financial situation should you decide on law school and essentially forces you to choose a full ride at a lower ranked school.


Meh, I have friends at MIT who managed to cultivate good relationships with faculty, gain strong research experience, and gain access to higher-level courses than they wouldn't have been able to at our school back home. I'm not saying it's impossible to do those things elsewhere, but there's definitely an edge in going to an institution that is fashioned and designed for your purpose. My friends seek academia, and they're pretty well-positioned. I don't think it's advisable for a student to take on that much debt, sure, but if parents can afford it without undue burden, why not?

kaiser
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby kaiser » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:11 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
kaiser wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
kaiser wrote:Sorry dude, but paying 200K for undergrad is an insanely stupid thing to do. There is nothing that would justify it.



+9432709738572095872458092754098475

Paying half that much for undergrad is insanely stupid.


Yeah, I'm trying to think of a single undergrad school or degree worth that much $$. I think of a Harvard or Princeton degree, or one from MIT, and even that doesn't justify such a number. College degrees, to a large extent, are fungible, especially among what one may consider the top "tier" of schools, whether that is defined as top 50 schools, or top 100 schools. The college degree you have matters very little during grad school admissions. It is your GPA figure that matters far more. I don't know enough to say that some college degrees from some schools aren't perhaps worth spending more on than others. But 200K? Never. And the worst part is, such a huge amount on a largely fungible degree cripples your financial situation should you decide on law school and essentially forces you to choose a full ride at a lower ranked school.


Meh, I have friends at MIT who managed to cultivate good relationships with faculty, gain strong research experience, and gain access to higher-level courses than they wouldn't have been able to at our school back home. I'm not saying it's impossible to do those things elsewhere, but there's definitely an edge in going to an institution that is fashioned and designed for your purpose. My friends seek academia, and they're pretty well-positioned. I don't think it's advisable for a student to take on that much debt, sure, but if parents can afford it without undue burden, why not?


As I said, I wasn't precluding the possibility of some degrees justifying more $$ than others. I'm just not sure which ones, or to what price point it would be justified. Obviously having parents helping in the cost eases the burden and makes it more feasible.

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SA1928
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby SA1928 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:26 pm

This is a little off-topic I guess, but Miami781, have you filed your FAFSA to see if you can get any federal aid of any type? I realize a lot of people do not qualify for any due to their parents' income, but 200K in debt for undergrad basically means that you are paying for college and cost of living all through loans. I'm not sure if you meant your parents were fronting the money, and you had to pay them back half or if you meant actual debt, like a parent plus loan or something like that.

Do you work over the summer or have you considered maybe a part time job while in college in order to help reduce your debt? At least with that money, you might be able to cover your cost of living if you worked full-time all summer and then at least part-time during the academic year. Based on your TLS profile, it looks like you still have some time in undergrad to make some changes so hopefully you won't have to graduate with 200K in debt.

(Sorry I realize this is wayyy off the original topic, just concerned!)

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:32 pm

acrossthelake wrote: I don't think it's advisable for a student to take on that much debt, sure, but if parents can afford it without undue burden, why not?


Parents paying for it has nothing to do with this situation.

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rayiner
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby rayiner » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:36 pm

kaiser wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
kaiser wrote:Sorry dude, but paying 200K for undergrad is an insanely stupid thing to do. There is nothing that would justify it.



+9432709738572095872458092754098475

Paying half that much for undergrad is insanely stupid.


Yeah, I'm trying to think of a single undergrad school or degree worth that much $$. I think of a Harvard or Princeton degree, or one from MIT, and even that doesn't justify such a number.


Those schools can be worth that much. You can go to HYPS+M/C, do well but not absolutely the top of your class, and get a job in finance paying $70k+50k bonus your first year. Many such jobs are also major feeders into the top business schools. Alternatively, you can go work at a place like Google or Facebook, where starting salaries including bonus are over six figures now for engineers. Even though tech companies are less prestige-conscious than banks or consulting companies when it comes to recruiting, the competition for top tech jobs is still lower at the top schools because banks, etc, suck up so many of the people with the best grades.

These plum jobs are much more difficult to get even at the top public universities. And those public schools aren't exactly a great deal these days. UVA and Michigan are both over $25k/year, and Berkeley is over $32k/year. Harvard and Yale are more, at $52-55k/year, but the difference is a lot smaller than it used to be. And these days the top private schools throw so much scholarship money around that almost nobody whose parents make less than $200k will pay full-freight to go there, and indeed children from a median family will pay nothing to go there.

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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby acrossthelake » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:41 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
acrossthelake wrote: I don't think it's advisable for a student to take on that much debt, sure, but if parents can afford it without undue burden, why not?


Parents paying for it has nothing to do with this situation.


Well, yes it does.

Is X worth Y amount of money?
Depends on how much money you have. There is an objective value, but there's also the subjective value of whether it's worth it relative to how much money you have. The very top undergrads afford a very real advantage...but it wouldn't be worth saddling yourself with 200K of debt for it.

Miami781
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby Miami781 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:46 pm

Question was average salary not average debt hah!

Basically being a lawyer can be a hit or miss

you can make 200k plus or you can make 45k and be poor as shit

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SarahKerrigan
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby SarahKerrigan » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:57 pm

Miami781 wrote:Question was average salary not average debt hah!

Basically being a lawyer can be a hit or miss

you can make 200k plus or you can make 45k and be poor as shit

Yes, but there are ways to maximize your chance to hit. ^_^
Last edited by SarahKerrigan on Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:02 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
acrossthelake wrote: I don't think it's advisable for a student to take on that much debt, sure, but if parents can afford it without undue burden, why not?


Parents paying for it has nothing to do with this situation.


Well, yes it does.

Is X worth Y amount of money?
Depends on how much money you have. There is an objective value, but there's also the subjective value of whether it's worth it relative to how much money you have. The very top undergrads afford a very real advantage...but it wouldn't be worth saddling yourself with 200K of debt for it.


This situation means OPs situation. He took on 100K debt after accounting for his parents' contribution.

If parents pay for it no debt is incurred.

acrossthelake
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby acrossthelake » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:05 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
acrossthelake wrote: I don't think it's advisable for a student to take on that much debt, sure, but if parents can afford it without undue burden, why not?


Parents paying for it has nothing to do with this situation.


Well, yes it does.

Is X worth Y amount of money?
Depends on how much money you have. There is an objective value, but there's also the subjective value of whether it's worth it relative to how much money you have. The very top undergrads afford a very real advantage...but it wouldn't be worth saddling yourself with 200K of debt for it.


This situation means OPs situation. He took on 100K debt after accounting for his parents' contribution.

If parents pay for it no debt is incurred.

I wasn't talking about the OP. I responded to a poster saying that paying 200K for undergrad was never worth it. I said it could be if the undergrad was a good one, you had aspirations for the careers those undergrads gave you an edge on, and parents paid for it.

Miami781
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby Miami781 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:53 pm

My parents are pretty wealthy and probably will pay for 85 percent of my law school, with that said I love my parents and feel terrible doing this so want to make sure I can pay them back one day.

Also want to go to the best school possible,

I also want to make a feed relating to a comment a professor made on friday that "less people can afford law school thus it is now easier to get into a T14" however I fear the response of the fellow TLS forum members

SwampRat88
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby SwampRat88 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:56 pm

Miami781 wrote:My parents are pretty wealthy and probably will pay for 85 percent of my law school, with that said I love my parents and feel terrible doing this so want to make sure I can pay them back one day.

Also want to go to the best school possible,

I also want to make a feed relating to a comment a professor made on friday that "less people can afford law school thus it is now easier to get into a T14" however I fear the response of the fellow TLS forum members


..
Last edited by SwampRat88 on Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Miami781
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Re: Average Salary coming out of Law School

Postby Miami781 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:58 pm

Thanks, not trying to be a troll I just have so many questions and this is one of the best places to ask.




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