Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

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2LT_CPG
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Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby 2LT_CPG » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:17 pm

Hello,

I'm applying for the Fall 2012 semester to a ton of schools, and I was wondering if anyone out there has experience with going to law school while serving in a reserve capacity in the military. I'm currently a lieutenant in the Army National Guard. Right now, my duties are pretty much limited to monthly drill and an occasional conference call, but I know of an impending deployment that would take place during my 2L year (during which I would obviously have to take a leave of absence). It's also possible that I could be called up for state active duty periods (i.e. for hurricanes, etc).

So basically, has anyone dealt with a similar situation, and if so, what issues did you encounter?

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mattviphky
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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby mattviphky » Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:35 pm

yeah, im in the guard now too, i get out in august tho before I start law school. however, i was in the guard all throughout undergrad, and it's not fun to deal with OREs/ORIs, UCIs, looming deployments etc. Everyone handles it in different ways tho. I didn't like it, but that is just me. It's definitely manageable, but it can be a headache. Drills seem to crop up on the worst weekends (like right around finals). But it also depends on your job and people you work with. If you gotta chill job and cool people it would probably be much easier.

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2LT_CPG
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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby 2LT_CPG » Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:58 pm

Most schools that I'm looking at seem to have a pretty good vets' assistance program, and consequently they're sensitive to helping out with current reservists/guardsmen. I'm just concerned about managing workloads with the extra burden of having to essentially have a part-time job.

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ThreeRivers
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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby ThreeRivers » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:14 pm

A girl in front of me checking in had to ask the proctor to write and sign down on this paper that she was actually at the LSAT. Stated she was in the reserves and needed proof she was taking LSAT's / not just skipping drill. Idk I found that slightly over the top at the moment but I guess I can understand the reasoning.

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2LT_CPG
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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby 2LT_CPG » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:24 pm

Bump... because I wanted to share/ask a few new things.

I have to say, my state's been incredibly accommodating and supportive with my law school applications. They know there's a significant chance I'll be taking an interstate transfer to wherever I go to school, and they support it regardless. Key was to keep my commander and battalion full-timers appraised of what I was doing. Some food for thought if anyone out there is looking to do what I'm doing.

zander4404
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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby zander4404 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:07 pm

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Last edited by zander4404 on Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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2LT_CPG
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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby 2LT_CPG » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:57 am

zander4404 wrote:I'm interested in this as well and created an account just to follow this thread.

You mentioned that you might have to IST to attend law school; have you already found openings in other states in your MOS that would make an IST easy?

I'm also curious about a leave of absence. I'm assuming that even if a deployment is short, a person taking a leave of absence would have to miss an entire school year, as opposed to just one semester since (most) law schools begin in the Fall and end in the Spring? Perhaps someone else can chime in here who have either taken a lengthy leave of absence or witnessed a classmate take one and share their story.

I'm curious to here all these answers, so bump.

But as for me, I'm an officer in an over strength branch in my state, so my sending state really has no issue with transferring me. If I end up going to a different state, I'll look all over and I'm sure I'll find something open.

wannabejag
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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby wannabejag » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:19 am

I'm not sure where you guys are applying, but you need to realize the tremendous difference in National Guard education benefits across the states. There are some states you will be able to go 100% free. I suggest you guys reseach those issues and possibly apply/IST as neccessary into those states. New Jersey and Illinois are 100% free at state schools and there are some others. Every State pays 4500 a year in federal tuition assistance, but the state tuition assistance on top of that varies. Texas I believe pays an additional 8,000..Maryland grants 50% tuition. RESEARCH!! it will be to your benefit.

zander4404
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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby zander4404 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:02 am

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Last edited by zander4404 on Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

wannabejag
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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby wannabejag » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:30 pm

zander4404 wrote:
wannabejag wrote:I'm not sure where you guys are applying, but you need to realize the tremendous difference in National Guard education benefits across the states. There are some states you will be able to go 100% free. I suggest you guys reseach those issues and possibly apply/IST as neccessary into those states. New Jersey and Illinois are 100% free at state schools and there are some others. Every State pays 4500 a year in federal tuition assistance, but the state tuition assistance on top of that varies. Texas I believe pays an additional 8,000..Maryland grants 50% tuition. RESEARCH!! it will be to your benefit.


I live in a state that will pay 100% of tuition. Transferring into a state that pays 100% tuition will set you back a year because you normally have to be a member of a state's NG for a year in order to receive their education benefits. OP - you do realize the previously stated, correct? It may be more financially beneficial to you to attend a public school in the state that you currently reside or IST into a state that provides 100% tuition assistance and waiting to attend law school for a year. Of course, this is all assuming that you don't receive good scholarships with whatever your GPA/LSAT currently is.


No. There is no time limit in NJ. Illinois is after 6 months. Futhermore many states will give you in state tuition if you are a member of that state's national guard. Texas there is no time limit for the extra 8K. As I think about it, there are very few states that have a time stipulation.

Also, states like NJ and IL dont "pay" the tuition. The state law says that tuition is waived. No money changes hands, so you don't have to worry about lack of TA funds, which happens sometimes.

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mattviphky
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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby mattviphky » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:55 pm

wannabejag wrote:
zander4404 wrote:
wannabejag wrote:I'm not sure where you guys are applying, but you need to realize the tremendous difference in National Guard education benefits across the states. There are some states you will be able to go 100% free. I suggest you guys reseach those issues and possibly apply/IST as neccessary into those states. New Jersey and Illinois are 100% free at state schools and there are some others. Every State pays 4500 a year in federal tuition assistance, but the state tuition assistance on top of that varies. Texas I believe pays an additional 8,000..Maryland grants 50% tuition. RESEARCH!! it will be to your benefit.


I live in a state that will pay 100% of tuition. Transferring into a state that pays 100% tuition will set you back a year because you normally have to be a member of a state's NG for a year in order to receive their education benefits. OP - you do realize the previously stated, correct? It may be more financially beneficial to you to attend a public school in the state that you currently reside or IST into a state that provides 100% tuition assistance and waiting to attend law school for a year. Of course, this is all assuming that you don't receive good scholarships with whatever your GPA/LSAT currently is.


No. There is no time limit in NJ. Illinois is after 6 months. Futhermore many states will give you in state tuition if you are a member of that state's national guard. Texas there is no time limit for the extra 8K. As I think about it, there are very few states that have a time stipulation.

Also, states like NJ and IL dont "pay" the tuition. The state law says that tuition is waived. No money changes hands, so you don't have to worry about lack of TA funds, which happens sometimes.


Actually, many states don't provide full tuition. Illinois is one of the best deals as far as state benefits go.

http://www.gijobs.com/state-education-b ... erans.aspx

zander4404
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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby zander4404 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:56 pm

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Last edited by zander4404 on Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

wannabejag
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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby wannabejag » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:57 pm

mattviphky wrote:
wannabejag wrote:
zander4404 wrote:
wannabejag wrote:I'm not sure where you guys are applying, but you need to realize the tremendous difference in National Guard education benefits across the states. There are some states you will be able to go 100% free. I suggest you guys reseach those issues and possibly apply/IST as neccessary into those states. New Jersey and Illinois are 100% free at state schools and there are some others. Every State pays 4500 a year in federal tuition assistance, but the state tuition assistance on top of that varies. Texas I believe pays an additional 8,000..Maryland grants 50% tuition. RESEARCH!! it will be to your benefit.


I live in a state that will pay 100% of tuition. Transferring into a state that pays 100% tuition will set you back a year because you normally have to be a member of a state's NG for a year in order to receive their education benefits. OP - you do realize the previously stated, correct? It may be more financially beneficial to you to attend a public school in the state that you currently reside or IST into a state that provides 100% tuition assistance and waiting to attend law school for a year. Of course, this is all assuming that you don't receive good scholarships with whatever your GPA/LSAT currently is.


No. There is no time limit in NJ. Illinois is after 6 months. Futhermore many states will give you in state tuition if you are a member of that state's national guard. Texas there is no time limit for the extra 8K. As I think about it, there are very few states that have a time stipulation.

Also, states like NJ and IL dont "pay" the tuition. The state law says that tuition is waived. No money changes hands, so you don't have to worry about lack of TA funds, which happens sometimes.


Actually, many states don't provide full tuition. Illinois is one of the best deals as far as state benefits go.

http://www.gijobs.com/state-education-b ... erans.aspx


NJ is actually better because there is no time stipulation and you are not limited to four years, however you are mis interpreting what I am saying. I am not saying many state's national guard pay....I am saying many state's schools give you a waiver as a non resident and allow you to pay resident tuition if you are a member of the military assigned in that state, including reserve/guard duty.

wannabejag
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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby wannabejag » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:00 pm

zander4404 wrote:
wannabejag wrote:
zander4404 wrote:
wannabejag wrote:I'm not sure where you guys are applying, but you need to realize the tremendous difference in National Guard education benefits across the states. There are some states you will be able to go 100% free. I suggest you guys reseach those issues and possibly apply/IST as neccessary into those states. New Jersey and Illinois are 100% free at state schools and there are some others. Every State pays 4500 a year in federal tuition assistance, but the state tuition assistance on top of that varies. Texas I believe pays an additional 8,000..Maryland grants 50% tuition. RESEARCH!! it will be to your benefit.


I live in a state that will pay 100% of tuition. Transferring into a state that pays 100% tuition will set you back a year because you normally have to be a member of a state's NG for a year in order to receive their education benefits. OP - you do realize the previously stated, correct? It may be more financially beneficial to you to attend a public school in the state that you currently reside or IST into a state that provides 100% tuition assistance and waiting to attend law school for a year. Of course, this is all assuming that you don't receive good scholarships with whatever your GPA/LSAT currently is.


No. There is no time limit in NJ. Illinois is after 6 months. Futhermore many states will give you in state tuition if you are a member of that state's national guard. Texas there is no time limit for the extra 8K. As I think about it, there are very few states that have a time stipulation.

Also, states like NJ and IL dont "pay" the tuition. The state law says that tuition is waived. No money changes hands, so you don't have to worry about lack of TA funds, which happens sometimes.


Illinois is a year. http://www.il.ngb.army.mil/Recruiting/EdBenefits.aspx

I was under the assumption that most states had policies similar to Illinois, but I guess I am mistaken. I know that this thread is kind of running off course, but I'm not sure that you're correct when you state that tuition is waived and not paid for by the state. If tuition is simply waived, the school would be footing the bill for NG students. If that is the case, the argument could be made that many schools would deny NG applicants since the school would presumably lose money if an NG soldier enrolls as opposed to if a civilian enrolls.


I don't know what else to say besides thats the way it is. No tuition is paid to state schools on behalf of NJ National Guard members. It is waived. Its a state law.

From the link below::College Reimbursement. Colleges do not receive reimbursement from the State or the National Guard for this program. The NJNGTP is a state law and therefore the colleges are required to waive tuition costs.

http://www.state.nj.us/military/education/NJNGTP.htm

You don't have to tell them you are in the guard. Get accepted, then tell them if you are worried. No one ever has a problem with it though. I have friends there that have like four or five college degrees.

zander4404
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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby zander4404 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:07 pm

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wannabejag
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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby wannabejag » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:12 pm

zander4404 wrote:^^^
Wow - you're right, I was wrong. I never realized that and am completely surprised that the state does not have to reimburse the school.


Why is that so surprising. It is two state organizations following a state law. Just like colleges allowing their employees to take classes free.

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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby zander4404 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:21 pm

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wannabejag
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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby wannabejag » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:31 pm

zander4404 wrote:
wannabejag wrote:
zander4404 wrote:^^^
Wow - you're right, I was wrong. I never realized that and am completely surprised that the state does not have to reimburse the school.


Why is that so surprising. It is two state organizations following a state law. Just like colleges allowing their employees to take classes free.


How is it not surprising? A school loses money by accepting a member of the NG. Tuition at UIUC is $33k a year for an in-state resident. If a member of the NG attends UIUC the school loses $99k over three years that they would have made had they accepted a civilian applicant.


You're looking at it from the other angle. There is no difference in your example than if the state paid the school the 99K. It is one state entity paying another. So even if there was reimbursement, it goes right back to the state anyways.

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2LT_CPG
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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby 2LT_CPG » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:12 am

Anyone know anything about loan forgiveness?

Also I got into one of my top schools today so I have a clearer sense of where I might end up. Louisiana. But I won't be going to LSU so no free school.

wannabejag
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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby wannabejag » Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:17 pm

2LT_CPG wrote:Anyone know anything about loan forgiveness?

Also I got into one of my top schools today so I have a clearer sense of where I might end up. Louisiana. But I won't be going to LSU so no free school.


There are alot of different types, but one common situation that could apply to everyone is 15% of net income in payments for 10 years, then anything remaining is forgiven.

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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby zander4404 » Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:32 pm

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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby zander4404 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:05 pm

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2LT_CPG
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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby 2LT_CPG » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:09 pm

zander4404 wrote:Does anybody know of schools that might offer in-state tuition to NG members of that state? For example, if somebody is a resident and member of one state's NG, can that person IST to another state's NG and receive in-state tuition without changing their state residency status?

I live in Pennsylvania, but I'm in the New York Army National Guard. I applied to both of New York's state schools (SUNY Buffalo and CUNY). Both schools said I qualify for in-state tuition because of my status as a soldier in the NYARNG. I think most state's are like this. For example, if I were to decide to go to Rutgers Newark, I could get accepted there, and then IST to New Jersey and take advantage of their 100% tuition waiver.

The big advantage is instantly qualifying for in-state tuition in most states. Anecdotally, I applied to UWyoming and they said I'd qualify for in-state immediately upon an IST. I won't go there. But still... nice to know.

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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby zander4404 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:21 pm

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Last edited by zander4404 on Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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2LT_CPG
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Re: Law School and the National Guard/Reserve

Postby 2LT_CPG » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:24 pm

zander4404 wrote:
2LT_CPG wrote:
zander4404 wrote:Does anybody know of schools that might offer in-state tuition to NG members of that state? For example, if somebody is a resident and member of one state's NG, can that person IST to another state's NG and receive in-state tuition without changing their state residency status?

I live in Pennsylvania, but I'm in the New York Army National Guard. I applied to both of New York's state schools (SUNY Buffalo and CUNY). Both schools said I qualify for in-state tuition because of my status as a soldier in the NYARNG. I think most state's are like this. For example, if I were to decide to go to Rutgers Newark, I could get accepted there, and then IST to New Jersey and take advantage of their 100% tuition waiver.

The big advantage is instantly qualifying for in-state tuition in most states. Anecdotally, I applied to UWyoming and they said I'd qualify for in-state immediately upon an IST. I won't go there. But still... nice to know.


That's extremely interesting. I've done a little Googling, hoping to find a comprehensive list of schools that allow non-resident members of a state's NG to qualify for in-state tuition, be it undergrad, graduate, or professional programs - but I have struck out thus far.

It's the kind of thing you just have to email admissions offices about. It's probably really rare.




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