Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

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msuz
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Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby msuz » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:29 pm

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Last edited by msuz on Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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buckilaw
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby buckilaw » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:31 pm

If you can get a good scholarship (without stips!!!) and you really want to work in the local school's market; not a terrible decision. It would suck if you went and then got the itch to work in big law though.

LoyalRebel
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby LoyalRebel » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:39 pm

Despite what TLS will tell you, there are other motivations for going to law school than a huge starting salary. And even then, there are ways to get a big salary that do not involve going to the T14.

I will say that if you're going to go to a TTT or below school, make absolutely sure you either have a really good scholarship or the tuition is exceptionally cheap.

I think this is a good place to start:

http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/b ... -announced

Try to find ones with a the best rank for the price, but even then there are other factors such as how saturated their job market is already.

All that being said, law school is an extremely risky venture. Don't do it if you're not absolutely certain that it's what you want to do and that you can be successful in it. If you are, then don't listen to people who tell you otherwise.

msuz
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby msuz » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:12 pm

LoyalRebel wrote:http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/best-value-law-schools-announced


Thanks for the link. These rankings are much more helpful than usnews.

It's not that I "really want to work in the local schools' market," its just that I know I want to work in PI, and not in Biglaw. I can't remember the article I read, but somewhere someone said that you don't need to go to a T14 to work in PI/govt.

I'm reasonably certain that I wouldn't be able to get a scholarship for T14.

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zettsscores40
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby zettsscores40 » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:37 pm

I'm from MI and want to stay here as well. There's a decent midlaw market here. MSU and Wayne were two schools I considered (got into both last cycle but not enough $$$ to make it worth it for, I paid for UG so I didn't want to take on more debt, so I'm retaking, hoping to raise my score and expand the range of schools I apply to in addition to those two). Wayne dominates in SE Michigan. One problem I've heard with MSU is that a lot of DCOL grads were pissed when DCOL became part of MSU so there's a little bit of a lack of loyalty issue. Just rumors I've read. When I was considering the two I emailed career services, looked up local bar associations and emailed members who I found that went to the two schools and worked in fields I was interested in to get their ideas of how hiring was going. If you can find attorney profiles, do it. It certainly is down. Take for example, the firm Honigman. They used to hire SAs from Wayne but their last 2 classes have been all UMich grads, with a couple of IU grads and other t14s sprinkled in. Those Wayne kids that struck out there might be competing with you for PI/Govt jobs now so keep that in mind as well. A family friend's boyfriend, who graduated from Wayne in 2010, top 15%, with a MST and undergrad degree in Accounting couldn't find a law job and ended up working at a Big4 firm. Not a bad gig, but he could have done that without 3 years of LS. Keep in mind MSU is a private school and their tuition is outrageous. Also, their national reach is pretty limited, at least for the beginning of your career. Best of luck.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby FeelTheHeat » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:40 pm

Sure. Having connections to the area you want to work is a major plus, and keep your debt as low as possible. The amount obviously varies to the region. Be sure you like the respective area that the school places into. I think most rational people can figure out what is a good choice. For instance, Brooklyn Law at 200k is a pretty terrible option, but Ole Miss with a desire to practice in that are for under 50k is a solid one.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby FeelTheHeat » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:41 pm

Also, IBTMtal

msuz
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby msuz » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:47 am

Zettsscores if you don't mind me asking, what numbers did you have for those schools and how much money were you offered?

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Veyron
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby Veyron » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:04 am

Yes, as long as they offer you the moneys.

msuz
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby msuz » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:38 am

Also, I know MSU is higher in usnews rankings, but are you saying that if I just want to work in PI after law school, Wayne would be a better bet to work in Michigan because of their connections?

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Moomoo2u
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby Moomoo2u » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:01 pm

As others have said if you have connections in the area and can get $$ (or more importantly have a job connection) it's not a terrible idea.

At my small law office only 4-5 out of the 20ish attorneys went to T-14 schools. Further, as part of my job I had to research a number of firms and I was suprised by the number of attorneys who did not go to T-14 schools (and we're talking firms with 250+ people with offices all over the country/world). Granted many of these attorneys graduated 10-20 years before I was born but it's still somewhat encouraging if you want to work in a local market.

But let me reiterate the caveat you hear so often on these forums, you really do not want to be 200k$ in debt with a degree from a TTT school and have no connections/job offers on the horizon.

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Sentry
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby Sentry » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:14 pm

I know two people that graduated from MSU law in 09. One works for his dad's firm in PA and the other couldn't find a legal job and is now a pre-school teacher.

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Rock Chalk
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby Rock Chalk » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:21 pm

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Last edited by Rock Chalk on Thu May 24, 2012 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Hawkeye Pierce
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby Hawkeye Pierce » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:50 pm

msuz wrote:
LoyalRebel wrote:http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/best-value-law-schools-announced


Thanks for the link. These rankings are much more helpful than usnews.

It's not that I "really want to work in the local schools' market," its just that I know I want to work in PI, and not in Biglaw. I can't remember the article I read, but somewhere someone said that you don't need to go to a T14 to work in PI/govt.

I'm reasonably certain that I wouldn't be able to get a scholarship for T14.


TBF, those rankings are pretty useless.

msuz
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby msuz » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:37 pm

Rock Chalk wrote:
msuz wrote:
LoyalRebel wrote:http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/best-value-law-schools-announced

Thanks for the link. These rankings are much more helpful than usnews.

No they're not, especially without the LEGAL employment rate for the schools listed. Also, average student debt shouldn't matter to students with their own debt levels.


Good point.

msuz
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby msuz » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:42 pm

Moomoo2u wrote:As others have said if you have connections in the area and can get $$ (or more importantly have a job connection) it's not a terrible idea.

At my small law office only 4-5 out of the 20ish attorneys went to T-14 schools. Further, as part of my job I had to research a number of firms and I was suprised by the number of attorneys who did not go to T-14 schools (and we're talking firms with 250+ people with offices all over the country/world). Granted many of these attorneys graduated 10-20 years before I was born but it's still somewhat encouraging if you want to work in a local market.

But let me reiterate the caveat you hear so often on these forums, you really do not want to be 200k$ in debt with a degree from a TTT school and have no connections/job offers on the horizon.


Sentry wrote:I know two people that graduated from MSU law in 09. One works for his dad's firm in PA and the other couldn't find a legal job and is now a pre-school teacher.


The lower-ranked, cheaper school is looking like a better and better idea.

LoyalRebel
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby LoyalRebel » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:49 pm

Rock Chalk wrote:
msuz wrote:
LoyalRebel wrote:http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/best-value-law-schools-announced

Thanks for the link. These rankings are much more helpful than usnews.

No they're not, especially without the LEGAL employment rate for the schools listed. Also, average student debt shouldn't matter to students with their own debt levels.

It's a good place to start if you're looking for cheap schools that are decent. My tuition is around 10k per year, and my scholarship knocks it down to about 5k per year.

If you apply to cheaper schools, even small scholarships can knock huge chunks out of your tuition percentage wise. You won't have the biglaw prospects, but then you don't have enormous amounts of debt that make biglaw salary almost a necessity. You can find a job at a small to midsize firm and live comfortably without working biglaw hours (although nothing is guaranteed in this industry).

Besides, if you work hard, get a high class rank, law journal, etc., I think you would be surprised what doors can open up for you.

midwestls
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby midwestls » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:08 pm

If (a) you can get a full ride or something close to a full ride; and (b) you're not going to borrow a ton each year to pay for living expenses, then those schools (or Toledo) could be a viable route to a public interest job. You'd be more likely to get the full ride at Toledo - but you'll have to bust your ass to keep it.

Other than that? It's a hard, hard road. I know a lot of people with JDs, no law job, and a ton of law debt right now. Everybody thinks it won't happen to them, that the economy will get better, blah, blah, blah.

Be careful. Be very, very careful.

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Rock Chalk
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby Rock Chalk » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:13 pm

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Last edited by Rock Chalk on Thu May 24, 2012 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LoyalRebel
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby LoyalRebel » Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:58 pm

Rock Chalk wrote:
LoyalRebel wrote:
Rock Chalk wrote:
msuz wrote:Thanks for the link. These rankings are much more helpful than usnews.

No they're not, especially without the LEGAL employment rate for the schools listed. Also, average student debt shouldn't matter to students with their own debt levels.

It's a good place to start if you're looking for cheap schools that are decent. My tuition is around 10k per year, and my scholarship knocks it down to about 5k per year.

The cost is utterly irrelevant unless you have to pay it, and you don't know that until you have a scholarship offer or lack thereof. Why would one start by looking at cheap schools when they might get better scholarships at more expensive ones?

Umm, because you they're cheaper to begin with? Statistically (with scholarships included), you're much more likely to pay less at a school with low tuition than high tuition.

msuz
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby msuz » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:58 pm

Honestly, I dont care what the tuition is if it will only be a 10,000-50,000$ difference in the end b/w two non-T14 schools. I'll just have to do research and decide which one makes more sense for me. I just want to go to the school that would give me the best shot in public interest, and was concerned about whether or not it is worth it if I would not be going to a T14 school

kahechsof
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby kahechsof » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:06 pm



So this is just a list of the 60 cheapest law schools. It is not about value. I think anyone would agree that a degree from Yale for 150 is worth more than one off the list for 60k.

cure
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Re: Should I go to a local Law School if I can't get T14?

Postby cure » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:20 pm

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