Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

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bk1
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby bk1 » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:48 am

1. Get a job waiting tables at half decent restaurant in a high income area in CA.
2. Make 40k+ a year (but with no benefits).
3. ?????
4. Profit.

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NYC Law
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby NYC Law » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:56 am

Adm.Doppleganger wrote:I haven't been lurking TLS for a while... like a month. Maybe two. But I just facepalmed all over the page. On almost everything really.

Can someone please tell me the MTal story? Something about a deranged law school drop out. I can only imagine the horrors he must have experienced.


He went to law school, did well at first then had a bad semester. He now has a good job in finance or some shit and an allegedly hot wife. He now spends his days trolling TLS to discourage anyone from attending law school. Ever.

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WhoIsDonDraper
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby WhoIsDonDraper » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:34 am

joncrooshal wrote:
MTal wrote:
dr123 wrote:
MTal wrote:The question is...is there a viable alternative to law school which can result in a fulfilling/lucrative career? The answer is........YES!!!

Follow these steps:

1. Don't accrue 150k in non-dischargeable debt to go to law school for the small chance of being an attorney. Even if you realize the chance, your starting salary will most likely be somewhere in the 35-50k range with few if any benefits.
2. Get a job. Really almost ANY job will do.
3. Work hard at your job. Work as hard as if it was your own business. Show enthusiasm for what you do and get along with co-workers and superiors.
4. Get promoted to management. This will take anywhere from 3-5 years, depending on where you are. At this point, you will be making anywhere from 60-80k.
5. Keep working management job and enjoy middle class life, OR, save up enough funds to start your own business. Either way, life will be good.


WTF world are you living in? Not all jobs have upward mobility like that


Target/Wal Mart store managers make over 100k a year. How many wal-marts, targets, pamidas, big lots. are out there? Really the manager of any decent chain will make some decent $$, with way more benefits and less stress than shitlaw lawyers.


Do you know how hard it is to become manager at any of those chain stores? Those stores hire managers who were already managers from somewhere else. It's damn near impossible to break through to an actual management position unless you are out there ready to give some sexual favors for the opportunity.

I have worked at a number of box retail stores and I know for a fact that people toil there for YEARS with promises for consideration for management and the closest they get is being a keyholder.


This is not true actually. I know for sure Target hires recent college graduates straight into manager positions and even puts some on the fast-track to become entire store managers and district managers eventually. They offer great money and benefits.

HOWEVER, Mtal is also wrong, just like we all know. There are still plenty of viable career paths for people in law. You mean you have to keep working hard before, during and after law school to to justify the risk? You don't say... I think you have to do that anywhere else too. You mean some people fail as lawyers? For some people it wasn't worth the risk? This is groundbreaking stuff.

Mtal is living, breathing LSAT flaw question. Since he can't recognize this himself maybe that's why he didn't get in to a good enough law school. Hey look, I got a job in finance and I am happier than I was in law school-->Therefore ALL people who go to law school are idiots and law school NEVER constitutes a viable career path. Thank you for the super anecdote Mtal, in fact:
Image

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sunynp
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby sunynp » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:11 am

The best way to have a positive future is to manage your debt level. There are people from top schools who have good grades who didn't get SAs. They will likely find jobs, but there isn't a guarantee for any 0L (who won't know for a while how well they will perform) going to any school. If you can minimize debt and/or go to a school that has a good plan to help you repay debt, then you are protecting your future.

My feeling is that for 0Ls, minimizing debt is the best action you can take to protect your future. After 1L, when you know how well you are doing, the question might change if you can transfer up to a school with a better debt payment plan and better job prospects/contacts.

The economy is so shaky now that going to school with a plan to make biglaw to repay six-figures of debt just seems like a risky gamble. If you have help from your school, or don't have to repay so much, you will be in much better shape.

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MTal
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby MTal » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:18 am

Even if you don't eventually end up being a manager, at the end of 5 years, you will have $$ in the bank, a decent sized 401k, and benefits, including health. The alternative of course...is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M98x-FLp7E

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vanwinkle
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:23 am

MTal wrote:Even if you don't eventually end up being a manager, at the end of 5 years, you will have $$ in the bank, a decent sized 401k, and benefits, including health.

For someone intent on warning people against inappropriate optimism, this is a pretty damn bold claim. Really? Money in the bank, a 401(k), health insurance, all while working at retail without making any kind of management level?

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johnnyutah
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby johnnyutah » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:24 am

vanwinkle wrote:
MTal wrote:Even if you don't eventually end up being a manager, at the end of 5 years, you will have $$ in the bank, a decent sized 401k, and benefits, including health.

For someone intent on warning people against inappropriate optimism, this is a pretty damn bold claim.

MTal is actually the biggest Pollyanna on this board. It's hilarious.

kublaikahn
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby kublaikahn » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:10 pm

In the long run we are all dead. Worry about today. If you are worried about shit like ITE, you are giving away the only thing you really have, minutes.

Having said that, the most efficient way to make a good living is learn how to sell things. My niece is 22, has no college education, and booked $100k last year selling cell phones. Granted she is smarter than most lawyers, but kinda flaky. She also worked about 32 hours a week. Beyond that, find a profession that is in demand. The median for an RN is $71k. A typical accounting manager with a staff of 10 makes about $75k (hardly a tough career track to crack).

My point is not to skip LS. But you can have a good life without it. Or you can go for it, fail, and still pick yourself up.

23402385985
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby 23402385985 » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:20 pm

MTal wrote:Even if you don't eventually end up being a manager, at the end of 5 years, you will have $$ in the bank, a decent sized 401k, and benefits, including health. The alternative of course...is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M98x-FLp7E


Have fun even getting a full time job. Big box stores tend to try and fuck employees and refuse to give them a full time position. Might have you working 30 hours or so, but just out of reach of the benefits.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby acrossthelake » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Ok,

So I spent my friday night thinking about how i might be making a terrible mistake going to law school, even though I have a good shot at a T1. The problem is, I have no clue what else i would do. yes, i would genuinely like to be a lawyer, but i would also genuinely like to not be in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and desperately looking for a job. Also, my undergrad degree is getting me nowhere in my job search right now. I really regret not majoring in something that could have landed me a job right out of undergrad, but after reading countless posts and website warning of the horrible state of the legal field, i would like to avoid making another terrible mistake of going to law school and not being able to earn a living/ pay back my debts. Still, I am pretty much set on going because I dont want to be doing nothing anymore.

Does anybody have anything positive to say or any evidence to show that maybe by the time I would graduate from LS in 2015 I would be looking at a drastically improved job market?


Not that quickly, no. You know how hard your job search is--and it's really not uncommon. This has been felt in most job markets, including the legal market. The difference, of course, is that you have to make a huge gamble with loans in order to try your hand at the legal market, though with greater rewards. Whatever your choice, I wouldn't expect grads from the Class of 2015 have greatly improved odds, no, since that's just OCI in 2 years from now, and the economy is currently uncertain and unstable(and still pretty bad).

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Br3v
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby Br3v » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:48 pm

I think a big thing, at least for me, is to have a job with meaning. Yeah a mid management position at a retail store can be a good way to live comfortably, but do you really want your life's work to be "bringing down prices"?

Eco
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby Eco » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:27 pm

Just get good grades and LSAT score now so you can get into a good law school, and don't fuck up when you're there. You'll get a job.

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Verity
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby Verity » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:34 pm

MTal is such a boner. He got double-circumcised in another thread with respect to some figures: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=160086&start=56

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Veyron
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby Veyron » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:36 pm

Br3v wrote:I think a big thing, at least for me, is to have a job with meaning. Yeah a mid management position at a retail store can be a good way to live comfortably, but do you really want your life's work to be "bringing down prices"?


Nothing wrong with making your life's work bringing down prices bro. It worked out pretty well for Christopher Columbus.

schooner
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby schooner » Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Ok,

So I spent my friday night thinking about how i might be making a terrible mistake going to law school, even though I have a good shot at a T1. The problem is, I have no clue what else i would do. yes, i would genuinely like to be a lawyer, but i would also genuinely like to not be in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and desperately looking for a job. Also, my undergrad degree is getting me nowhere in my job search right now. I really regret not majoring in something that could have landed me a job right out of undergrad, but after reading countless posts and website warning of the horrible state of the legal field, i would like to avoid making another terrible mistake of going to law school and not being able to earn a living/ pay back my debts. Still, I am pretty much set on going because I dont want to be doing nothing anymore.

Does anybody have anything positive to say or any evidence to show that maybe by the time I would graduate from LS in 2015 I would be looking at a drastically improved job market?


Don't go if you have no clue why you want to be a lawyer or have a JD in a related field (like public policy), versus some other course.

It might be helpful for you to think about older people doing jobs that you'd love to have 10-20+ years from now. And look up their bios - how did they get there?

kublaikahn
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby kublaikahn » Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:06 pm

Veyron wrote:
Br3v wrote:I think a big thing, at least for me, is to have a job with meaning. Yeah a mid management position at a retail store can be a good way to live comfortably, but do you really want your life's work to be "bringing down prices"?


Nothing wrong with making your life's work bringing down prices bro. It worked out pretty well for Christopher Columbus.


CC was well above the median though. :lol:

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Patriot1208
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby Patriot1208 » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:12 pm

Veyron wrote:
Br3v wrote:I think a big thing, at least for me, is to have a job with meaning. Yeah a mid management position at a retail store can be a good way to live comfortably, but do you really want your life's work to be "bringing down prices"?


Nothing wrong with making your life's work bringing down prices bro. It worked out pretty well for Christopher Columbus.

Well a life's work of doing due diligence on hostile takeovers sounds much more meaningful

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NYC Law
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby NYC Law » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:13 pm

MTal is on to something though.... If any of you are from the south and can work at a Publix that's not a bad gig. If you manage to make manager they all make $100k+, and even if you can just become full time they have crazy benefits, especially the free stock. One guy whos been there 20 years or so has well over $150k in stocks alone... It's just a bitch to even become full time, most stores only have like 4 full time people total.

83947368
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby 83947368 » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:11 pm

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Last edited by 83947368 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Br3v
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby Br3v » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:40 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
Veyron wrote:
Br3v wrote:I think a big thing, at least for me, is to have a job with meaning. Yeah a mid management position at a retail store can be a good way to live comfortably, but do you really want your life's work to be "bringing down prices"?


Nothing wrong with making your life's work bringing down prices bro. It worked out pretty well for Christopher Columbus.

Well a life's work of doing due diligence on hostile takeovers sounds much more meaningful


Was expecting more replies like this lol. But the Columbus joke made me lol.

Danimal
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby Danimal » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:21 pm

bk1 wrote:1. Get a job waiting tables at half decent restaurant in a high income area in CA.
2. Make 40k+ a year (but with no benefits).
3. ?????
4. Profit.


South Park/Underpant Gnome reference?

Anyway, the OP fails hard with his oversimplified analysis. If life were that easy, I would have never gone to college in the first place. I would have gotten a cashiering job at KFC (finger lickin' good!) and been the Colonel's right hand man by now. If you think the prospects are bad for new lawyers, have fun waiting tables with your B.A. degree. As one of the replies said, don't let the economy dictate your decision. If law is your passion, then go to law school and commit yourself 110% to the task at hand. Even if your starting salary as someone's paperbitch is 45K, it's only temporary and the pay is almost guaranteed to rise in a steady fashion.

It's more like...

1. Go in (Maybe not T4)
2. GO HARD

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MTal
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby MTal » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:35 pm

Danimal wrote:
bk1 wrote:1. Get a job waiting tables at half decent restaurant in a high income area in CA.
2. Make 40k+ a year (but with no benefits).
3. ?????
4. Profit.


South Park/Underpant Gnome reference?

Anyway, the OP fails hard with his oversimplified analysis. If life were that easy, I would have never gone to college in the first place. I would have gotten a cashiering job at KFC (finger lickin' good!) and been the Colonel's right hand man by now. If you think the prospects are bad for new lawyers, have fun waiting tables with your B.A. degree. As one of the replies said, don't let the economy dictate your decision. If law is your passion, then go to law school and commit yourself 110% to the task at hand. Even if your starting salary as someone's paperbitch is 45K, it's only temporary and the pay is almost guaranteed to rise in a steady fashion.

It's more like...

1. Go in (Maybe not T4)
2. GO HARD


The solution you propose is just as oversimplified as the analysis of the OP.

nickwar
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby nickwar » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:51 pm

Almost no student loans for me and a degree from a state law school in a fairly decent market -- I'm still optimistic. I'm truly happy with my decision to take $$$ at a local school vs. paying sticker somewhere slightly better (multiple of my other school options have been slipping lately). I enjoy law school and look forward to being part of the profession. I really don't know anything else I would be doing right now.

I also don't define my professional worth as my shot at big law. I know very few happy big lawyers.

Danimal
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby Danimal » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:10 pm

MTal wrote:
Danimal wrote:
bk1 wrote:1. Get a job waiting tables at half decent restaurant in a high income area in CA.
2. Make 40k+ a year (but with no benefits).
3. ?????
4. Profit.


South Park/Underpant Gnome reference?

Anyway, the OP fails hard with his oversimplified analysis. If life were that easy, I would have never gone to college in the first place. I would have gotten a cashiering job at KFC (finger lickin' good!) and been the Colonel's right hand man by now. If you think the prospects are bad for new lawyers, have fun waiting tables with your B.A. degree. As one of the replies said, don't let the economy dictate your decision. If law is your passion, then go to law school and commit yourself 110% to the task at hand. Even if your starting salary as someone's paperbitch is 45K, it's only temporary and the pay is almost guaranteed to rise in a steady fashion.

It's more like...

1. Go in (Maybe not T4)
2. GO HARD


The solution you propose is just as oversimplified as the analysis of the OP.


Hardly. But hey, stick to your plan and I'll stick to mine. I'll be sure to tip you really well.

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MTal
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Re: Does anyone have anything positive to say abou the future???

Postby MTal » Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:55 pm

Danimal wrote: Hardly. But hey, stick to your plan and I'll stick to mine. I'll be sure to tip you really well.


Tip me? What do you mean?




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