Why BigLaw Sucks?

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rayiner
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby rayiner » Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:53 am

HYPSM wrote:
ClarDarr wrote:
Cavalier wrote:Wait, you mean I have to work more than forty hours per week to make $160,000 per year? I'm shocked! This totally changes my perception of big law and the legal profession in general! I really regret going to law school now!

+1


lol I think it was a little more than forty hours...?

Also, considering all the other bullshit that comes with it, it's funny how some of the idiots here only hear "$160,000."


You think a lot of bullshit comes with biglaw? Try working a regular job. Biglaw is fucking heaven compared to the juvenile bullshit other people have to put up with. Health insurance, an office with a door, being able to run a 15 minute errand in the middle of the day without getting fired. Your average person would kill to be treated so well.

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Gecko of Doom
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby Gecko of Doom » Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:57 am

Bildungsroman wrote:It starts with the main protagonist stating that he has not started law school yet, but the practicing lawyer later states that the protagonist has already gone to law school. Continuity, hello!

Also, lamé?

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Veyron
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby Veyron » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:07 am

rayiner wrote:
HYPSM wrote:
ClarDarr wrote:
Cavalier wrote:Wait, you mean I have to work more than forty hours per week to make $160,000 per year? I'm shocked! This totally changes my perception of big law and the legal profession in general! I really regret going to law school now!

+1


lol I think it was a little more than forty hours...?

Also, considering all the other bullshit that comes with it, it's funny how some of the idiots here only hear "$160,000."


You think a lot of bullshit comes with biglaw? Try working a regular job. Biglaw is fucking heaven compared to the juvenile bullshit other people have to put up with. Health insurance, an office with a door, being able to run a 15 minute errand in the middle of the day without getting fired. Your average person would kill to be treated so well.


Ok, I'm pretty sure that a regulat job is still easier than biglaw, even if it doesn't have the same perks.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby Holly Golightly » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:10 am

Veyron wrote:
rayiner wrote:You think a lot of bullshit comes with biglaw? Try working a regular job. Biglaw is fucking heaven compared to the juvenile bullshit other people have to put up with. Health insurance, an office with a door, being able to run a 15 minute errand in the middle of the day without getting fired. Your average person would kill to be treated so well.


Ok, I'm pretty sure that a regulat job is still easier than biglaw, even if it doesn't have the same perks.

I also had all of those things in my pre-law school job, but I get the point.

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OutCold
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby OutCold » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:42 am

f7 wrote:Image

:lol:

I would much rather work 12 hours of BigLaw than 8 at one of the shitty manual labor jobs that I had during my high school years. People say doc review is boring... Have you ever had to paint walls for 8 hours a day? It's literally watching paint dry.

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Tanicius
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby Tanicius » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:45 am

f7 wrote:
Holly Golightly wrote:
Veyron wrote:
rayiner wrote:You think a lot of bullshit comes with biglaw? Try working a regular job. Biglaw is fucking heaven compared to the juvenile bullshit other people have to put up with. Health insurance, an office with a door, being able to run a 15 minute errand in the middle of the day without getting fired. Your average person would kill to be treated so well.


Ok, I'm pretty sure that a regulat job is still easier than biglaw, even if it doesn't have the same perks.

I also had all of those things in my pre-law school job, but I get the point.

Image



What a dumb post. The point is that jobs with the ability to "run errands" and "have health insurance" are in fact quite common. Hell, almost any legal job that isn't shitlaw should come with these "rare" perks.

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OutCold
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby OutCold » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:56 am

I just hate that people generalize that BigLaw sucks for everyone. There are people who missed the job lottery coming out of undergrad (post 08), there are people who are already working jobs they hate, there are people with huge loans that need a greater source of income, and there are people who were just built for the type of work that BigLaw requires. For all of these people, a BigLaw job, even if only for a few years, can be a major blessing. Keep in mind that everyone has their own set of circumstances, and not everyone had a good job pre-law school to compare it to.

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Tanicius
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby Tanicius » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:04 am

When people say Biglaw sucks, I imagine this is the kind of thing they're talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtoEt0K8 ... ure=fvwrel

Yeah, it's a fictional story, but I believe it when the creators say it's inspired from toxic work environments. This federal judge also has some good words on Biglaw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BufcBAlyU04

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Veyron
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby Veyron » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:18 am

Tanicius wrote:When people say Biglaw sucks, I imagine this is the kind of thing they're talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtoEt0K8 ... ure=fvwrel

Yeah, it's a fictional story, but I believe it when the creators say it's inspired from toxic work environments. This federal judge also has some good words on Biglaw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BufcBAlyU04


Flame, no self respecting biglaw firm would have such a poorly appointed kitchen.

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Tanicius
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby Tanicius » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:19 am

Veyron wrote:
Tanicius wrote:When people say Biglaw sucks, I imagine this is the kind of thing they're talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtoEt0K8 ... ure=fvwrel

Yeah, it's a fictional story, but I believe it when the creators say it's inspired from toxic work environments. This federal judge also has some good words on Biglaw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BufcBAlyU04


Flame, no self respecting biglaw firm would have such a poorly appointed kitchen.


lmao, I've often been curious how accurate the depiction of the physical environments are in that series.

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Veyron
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby Veyron » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:22 am

Tanicius wrote:
Veyron wrote:
Tanicius wrote:When people say Biglaw sucks, I imagine this is the kind of thing they're talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtoEt0K8 ... ure=fvwrel

Yeah, it's a fictional story, but I believe it when the creators say it's inspired from toxic work environments. This federal judge also has some good words on Biglaw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BufcBAlyU04


Flame, no self respecting biglaw firm would have such a poorly appointed kitchen.


lmao, I've often been curious how accurate the depiction of the physical environments are in that series.


All of the biglaw and midlaw offices I've ever been in have been much, much nicer than that.

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sunynp
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby sunynp » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:24 am

wrong link but thread is about this article:

--LinkRemoved--

and this article was linked to in the comments FWIW:

http://kowalskiandassociatesblog.com/20 ... -law-firm/

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rayiner
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby rayiner » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:22 pm

Veyron wrote:
rayiner wrote:
HYPSM wrote:
ClarDarr wrote:+1


lol I think it was a little more than forty hours...?

Also, considering all the other bullshit that comes with it, it's funny how some of the idiots here only hear "$160,000."


You think a lot of bullshit comes with biglaw? Try working a regular job. Biglaw is fucking heaven compared to the juvenile bullshit other people have to put up with. Health insurance, an office with a door, being able to run a 15 minute errand in the middle of the day without getting fired. Your average person would kill to be treated so well.


Ok, I'm pretty sure that a regulat job is still easier than biglaw, even if it doesn't have the same perks.


I'm not talking about "easier" versus "harder" I'm talking about "bullshit."

The average person in our age demographic does not work a cushy $50k/year desk job with an office and good health insurance. These people work as waiters, tech support reps, etc. Thanks to management consultants these folks are basically treated like children, working within a highly structured framework. areyouinsane's stories about terrible doc review conditions aren't too far from the "bullshit" a big chunk of the people our age have to deal with.

Just having health insurance along makes big law an awesome job. Less than 60% of Americans have employer-sponsored health insurance: http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/d ... ccelerated. That number is much lower for the sorts of jobs people our age work in (the uninsured rate among people 18-34 is almost double the average). I'll put up with a lot of getting yelled at at 1 am to know that I could have a kid and have access to good, affordable health insurance.

flexityflex86
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby flexityflex86 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:27 pm

Sure it's a lot of work and less per hour than other jobs, but the opportunity to work for money is an incredible opportunity. the opportunity to pay rent is an incredible opportunity. the opportunity to not have to worry what will happen financially if your wife gets sick is an incredible opportunity. No more employments.

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rayiner
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby rayiner » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:30 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:Sure it's a lot of work and less per hour than other jobs, but the opportunity to work for money is an incredible opportunity. the opportunity to pay rent is an incredible opportunity. the opportunity to not have to worry what will happen financially if your wife gets sick is an incredible opportunity. No more employments.


Welcome to the new America. Not worrying every moment about what happens if someone in your family gets sick is a huge fucking perk.

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rinkrat19
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby rinkrat19 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:36 pm

rayiner wrote:
Veyron wrote:
rayiner wrote:You think a lot of bullshit comes with biglaw? Try working a regular job. Biglaw is fucking heaven compared to the juvenile bullshit other people have to put up with. Health insurance, an office with a door, being able to run a 15 minute errand in the middle of the day without getting fired. Your average person would kill to be treated so well.


Ok, I'm pretty sure that a regulat job is still easier than biglaw, even if it doesn't have the same perks.


I'm not talking about "easier" versus "harder" I'm talking about "bullshit."

The average person in our age demographic does not work a cushy $50k/year desk job with an office and good health insurance. These people work as waiters, tech support reps, etc. Thanks to management consultants these folks are basically treated like children, working within a highly structured framework. areyouinsane's stories about terrible doc review conditions aren't too far from the "bullshit" a big chunk of the people our age have to deal with.

Just having health insurance along makes big law an awesome job. Less than 60% of Americans have employer-sponsored health insurance: http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/d ... ccelerated. That number is much lower for the sorts of jobs people our age work in (the uninsured rate among people 18-34 is almost double the average). I'll put up with a lot of getting yelled at at 1 am to know that I could have a kid and have access to good, affordable health insurance.

I work a cushy $55k/year desk job with something between a cubicle and an office, and fantastic health insurance. I'm also treated like I'm six years old. I have to tell my supervisor when I'm taking my 15-minute breaks and my lunch. Lunch can't be pushed back any further than 12:30. I can't have my cell phone or e-reader on my desk to charge (not use, just plugged into USB to charge), because personal electronic use during office hours isn't allowed. When I'm on break, I have to sit in my visitor's chair, so that people can tell I'm on break and am not reading a personal book on work time. I have to have my desk turned so that my boss can see what's on my computer screen, even though that puts my desk over the HVAC intake vent and I freeze to death. I was allowed to leave 2 minutes early to catch a bus when my car was in the shop only by coming in 2 minutes early. 8:01 is late, even if I stay until 5:01 to make up for it. I have less autonomy than I did in kindergarten.

Frankly, big law (at all but the worst sweatshops) sounds awesome.

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romothesavior
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby romothesavior » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:41 pm

I was kind of surprised that the guy in the video said 2,000 hours used to be on the high side. Anybody know if that is true? Seems pretty low by today's standards.

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DaveBear07
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby DaveBear07 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:46 pm

My take: I am working as a waiter right now to earn some money before law school. This job sucks so bad-- on my feet for 9 to 10 hours a shift, making 10-12 dollars an hour on tips, treated like crap by customers and (sometimes) managers. I am exhausted when I get home at 1 or 2 in the morning and have little energy to accomplish much of anything before my next shift-- and I am a pretty fit 22 year old male.

Recently I also had a super-cush temp office job, and I taught LSAT with Kaplan. When I was doing all three in the spring, I worked a few 60 plus hour weeks. Doing that, and waiting tables full time now, has given me a lot of perspective.

Will working BigLaw be hard? Definitely. Is working all night and not having time for family hard right now too? Absolutely. I for one am looking forward to the change. At least I'll work most of my hours during the day--- and make much better money doing something with my mind and not as a waiter.

Also, there are probably few of us here who want to do BigLaw forever; I for one want to transition after a few years into something more 'Public Interest' minded (goverment work comes to mind).

All in all, we're pretty lucky to even have the opportunity.

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rayiner
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby rayiner » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:47 pm

romothesavior wrote:I was kind of surprised that the guy in the video said 2,000 hours used to be on the high side. Anybody know if that is true? Seems pretty low by today's standards.


There was a book on Cravath written some time ago. The book mentions that in the 40s or so, a Cravath partner was expected to put in a strenuous 7 hour day.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:25 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
I'm not talking about "easier" versus "harder" I'm talking about "bullshit."

The average person in our age demographic does not work a cushy $50k/year desk job with an office and good health insurance. These people work as waiters, tech support reps, etc. Thanks to management consultants these folks are basically treated like children, working within a highly structured framework. areyouinsane's stories about terrible doc review conditions aren't too far from the "bullshit" a big chunk of the people our age have to deal with.

Just having health insurance along makes big law an awesome job. Less than 60% of Americans have employer-sponsored health insurance: http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/d ... ccelerated. That number is much lower for the sorts of jobs people our age work in (the uninsured rate among people 18-34 is almost double the average). I'll put up with a lot of getting yelled at at 1 am to know that I could have a kid and have access to good, affordable health insurance.
I work a cushy $55k/year desk job with something between a cubicle and an office, and fantastic health insurance. I'm also treated like I'm six years old. I have to tell my supervisor when I'm taking my 15-minute breaks and my lunch. Lunch can't be pushed back any further than 12:30. I can't have my cell phone or e-reader on my desk to charge (not use, just plugged into USB to charge), because personal electronic use during office hours isn't allowed. When I'm on break, I have to sit in my visitor's chair, so that people can tell I'm on break and am not reading a personal book on work time. I have to have my desk turned so that my boss can see what's on my computer screen, even though that puts my desk over the HVAC intake vent and I freeze to death. I was allowed to leave 2 minutes early to catch a bus when my car was in the shop only by coming in 2 minutes early. 8:01 is late, even if I stay until 5:01 to make up for it. I have less autonomy than I did in kindergarten.

Frankly, big law (at all but the worst sweatshops) sounds awesome.


Sounds similar to my job. A lot of people just finishing up school would help themselves tremendously by working their way up an entry level career for a few years.

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rinkrat19
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby rinkrat19 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:54 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:I work a cushy $55k/year desk job with something between a cubicle and an office, and fantastic health insurance. I'm also treated like I'm six years old. I have to tell my supervisor when I'm taking my 15-minute breaks and my lunch. Lunch can't be pushed back any further than 12:30. I can't have my cell phone or e-reader on my desk to charge (not use, just plugged into USB to charge), because personal electronic use during office hours isn't allowed. When I'm on break, I have to sit in my visitor's chair, so that people can tell I'm on break and am not reading a personal book on work time. I have to have my desk turned so that my boss can see what's on my computer screen, even though that puts my desk over the HVAC intake vent and I freeze to death. I was allowed to leave 2 minutes early to catch a bus when my car was in the shop only by coming in 2 minutes early. 8:01 is late, even if I stay until 5:01 to make up for it. I have less autonomy than I did in kindergarten.

Frankly, big law (at all but the worst sweatshops) sounds awesome.


Sounds similar to my job. A lot of people just finishing up school would help themselves tremendously by working their way up an entry level career for a few years.
The truly depressing part is that I'm 31 and an engineer and I still get treated like that.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:57 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:I work a cushy $55k/year desk job with something between a cubicle and an office, and fantastic health insurance. I'm also treated like I'm six years old. I have to tell my supervisor when I'm taking my 15-minute breaks and my lunch. Lunch can't be pushed back any further than 12:30. I can't have my cell phone or e-reader on my desk to charge (not use, just plugged into USB to charge), because personal electronic use during office hours isn't allowed. When I'm on break, I have to sit in my visitor's chair, so that people can tell I'm on break and am not reading a personal book on work time. I have to have my desk turned so that my boss can see what's on my computer screen, even though that puts my desk over the HVAC intake vent and I freeze to death. I was allowed to leave 2 minutes early to catch a bus when my car was in the shop only by coming in 2 minutes early. 8:01 is late, even if I stay until 5:01 to make up for it. I have less autonomy than I did in kindergarten.

Frankly, big law (at all but the worst sweatshops) sounds awesome.


Sounds similar to my job. A lot of people just finishing up school would help themselves tremendously by working their way up an entry level career for a few years.
The truly depressing part is that I'm 31 and an engineer and I still get treated like that.


I'm 27 and hold several securities licenses. I feel you.

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rayiner
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby rayiner » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:09 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:I work a cushy $55k/year desk job with something between a cubicle and an office, and fantastic health insurance. I'm also treated like I'm six years old. I have to tell my supervisor when I'm taking my 15-minute breaks and my lunch. Lunch can't be pushed back any further than 12:30. I can't have my cell phone or e-reader on my desk to charge (not use, just plugged into USB to charge), because personal electronic use during office hours isn't allowed. When I'm on break, I have to sit in my visitor's chair, so that people can tell I'm on break and am not reading a personal book on work time. I have to have my desk turned so that my boss can see what's on my computer screen, even though that puts my desk over the HVAC intake vent and I freeze to death. I was allowed to leave 2 minutes early to catch a bus when my car was in the shop only by coming in 2 minutes early. 8:01 is late, even if I stay until 5:01 to make up for it. I have less autonomy than I did in kindergarten.

Frankly, big law (at all but the worst sweatshops) sounds awesome.


Sounds similar to my job. A lot of people just finishing up school would help themselves tremendously by working their way up an entry level career for a few years.
The truly depressing part is that I'm 31 and an engineer and I still get treated like that.


You should not have to put up with that as an engineer. Coming into work at noon is one of the best parts of being an engineer. Tell them its stifling your creativity or something.

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mattviphky
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby mattviphky » Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:53 pm

i don't want biglaw myself, but i can see why some people are drawn to it. some people just have to be on the go, and need an outlet for their alpha tendencies. However, based on all the hearsay about the lifestyle, don't do it just for money. To invest 150k, then spend 80 hours a week working your ass off to make 160k you might be better off starting your own business. The odds are probably just as favorable in business as biglaw. You could have the next big thing.

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rayiner
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Re: WHY BIGLAW SUCKS.

Postby rayiner » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:12 am

mattviphky wrote:i don't want biglaw myself, but i can see why some people are drawn to it. some people just have to be on the go, and need an outlet for their alpha tendencies. However, based on all the hearsay about the lifestyle, don't do it just for money. To invest 150k, then spend 80 hours a week working your ass off to make 160k you might be better off starting your own business. The odds are probably just as favorable in business as biglaw. You could have the next big thing.


LOL @ alpha tendencies.

By and large people go into biglaw because of their preoccupation with minimizing risk.

That said, I agree you should like the work you do. I




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