JD and MBA

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JayTeeDee
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JD and MBA

Postby JayTeeDee » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:35 pm

Is getting a JD and MBA even worth it? Also, once in the Law School can you apply for the MBA degree. Like after 1L maybe?

ran12
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Re: JD and MBA

Postby ran12 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:42 pm

JayTeeDee wrote:Is getting a JD and MBA even worth it? Also, once in the Law School can you apply for the MBA degree. Like after 1L maybe?


It's worth it more for business than law. The typical JD/MBA process is to apply to one or the other after your first year in one of the programs. I wouldn't do the joint degree unless you go to a top school for both which usually isn't an issue if one of the schools is a top program but MBAs usually should be something like top 20 or so to be helpful.

bdubs
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Re: JD and MBA

Postby bdubs » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:47 pm

What do you want to do? I would say it is worth it for a very select subset of people, but most should stick to one degree or the other.

Most schools allow you to apply during 1L, in fact I don't know any which will not allow a 1L to apply. You can't really apply after 1L most places because the business school will have finished its admissions cycle and many schools don't allow 2Ls to apply for a joint degree.

JayTeeDee
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Re: JD and MBA

Postby JayTeeDee » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:51 pm

I want to do international law or corporate. But I was also considering pursuing real estate as well after law school.

bdubs
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Re: JD and MBA

Postby bdubs » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:00 am

Well an MBA won't help with whatever you were thinking of as "international law", and it's not necessary or worthwhile to just do corporate law without some other end goal.

Anyone can do real estate, you don't even need an MBA for that.

sparty99
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Re: JD and MBA

Postby sparty99 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:44 am

The MBA is fluff and transcinds multiple industries. A law degree allows you to practice law. An MBA is not needed for real estate unless you are thinking corporate real estate or real estate finance, where maybe, the MBA will be a "nice to have."

HamDel
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Re: JD and MBA

Postby HamDel » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:03 am

Your goals sound too amorphous to justify it. Plenty of lawyers go into real estate without an MBA. People who didn't even graduate high school can succeed in real estate. JD/MBA is good for people who want to be involved with highly specialized areas of finance mainly. Distressed debt funds especially value the combo, for example.

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Wade LeBosh
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Re: JD and MBA

Postby Wade LeBosh » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:17 am

HamDel wrote:Your goals sound too amorphous to justify it. Plenty of lawyers go into real estate without an MBA. People who didn't even graduate high school can succeed in real estate. JD/MBA is good for people who want to be involved with highly specialized areas of finance mainly. Distressed debt funds especially value the combo, for example.


This guy did pretty well in real estate after law school with only a JD:

Image

fingersxd
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Re: JD and MBA

Postby fingersxd » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:47 am

HamDel wrote:Your goals sound too amorphous to justify it. Plenty of lawyers go into real estate without an MBA. People who didn't even graduate high school can succeed in real estate. JD/MBA is good for people who want to be involved with highly specialized areas of finance mainly. Distressed debt funds especially value the combo, for example.


The value of the MBA just isn't worth the extra year of tuition IMO. HamDel correctly points out that a JD/MBA is really only of value in certain highly specialized areas of finance (and even then is usually insufficient on it's own to get you the job anyway without relevant work experience).

If you really want an MBA, pretty much any (non-law)firm will pay for you to get one, but unless you are at a top MBA program - and I would argue that the list of top MBA programs is even smaller than top law schools - its generally a waste.

bdubs
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Re: JD and MBA

Postby bdubs » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:09 am

fingersxd wrote:If you really want an MBA, pretty much any (non-law)firm will pay for you to get one, but unless you are at a top MBA program - and I would argue that the list of top MBA programs is even smaller than top law schools - its generally a waste.


This is not true. Most companies will not pay your way to get an MBA, even part time. A few companies do have programs to sponsor your way through an MBA program, but they will almost always require a commitment of several years of work afterward. That kind of perk is only really common for big consulting firms.

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scrowell
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Re: JD and MBA

Postby scrowell » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:46 am

I supposedly can get an MBA after like 5 or 6 classes after I finish my JD because of prerecs from undergrad. Think I should go for it? I'd probably just go to a cheap state school like CUNY or UNM or something, or maybe back to BU.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: JD and MBA

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:48 am

I wish I had at least applied for the joint JD/MBA program, but it seems like the MBA stuff would be particularly relevant to the kind of law (bankruptcy) I'm doing - and exceedingly relevant to the exit options for bankruptcy folks (vulture funds and so on). Unfortunately, I didn't figure out what kind of law I really wanted to do until it was too late to apply for the joint program - and I think most people end up in the same boat.

ran12
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Re: JD and MBA

Postby ran12 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:24 pm

scrowell wrote:I supposedly can get an MBA after like 5 or 6 classes after I finish my JD because of prerecs from undergrad. Think I should go for it? I'd probably just go to a cheap state school like CUNY or UNM or something, or maybe back to BU.


I guess you could do it but the point of a MBA is to learn through the experiences of others and work in teams for 2 years. Most top MBA programs won't let you use UG or masters level courses to substitute.

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scrowell
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Re: JD and MBA

Postby scrowell » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:29 pm

ran12 wrote:
scrowell wrote:I supposedly can get an MBA after like 5 or 6 classes after I finish my JD because of prerecs from undergrad. Think I should go for it? I'd probably just go to a cheap state school like CUNY or UNM or something, or maybe back to BU.


I guess you could do it but the point of a MBA is to learn through the experiences of others and work in teams for 2 years. Most top MBA programs won't let you use UG or masters level courses to substitute.


Yeah teams are all we did in U-Grad. I've only talked to a couple schools about it and they said 5 and 6 classes depending on the exact classes I've taken. I'll put the idea on the back-burner.

09042014
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Re: JD and MBA

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:29 pm

Wade LeBosh wrote:
HamDel wrote:Your goals sound too amorphous to justify it. Plenty of lawyers go into real estate without an MBA. People who didn't even graduate high school can succeed in real estate. JD/MBA is good for people who want to be involved with highly specialized areas of finance mainly. Distressed debt funds especially value the combo, for example.


This guy did pretty well in real estate after law school with only a JD:

Image


MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF HOUSE SOLD. MILLIONS.

Army2Law
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Re: JD and MBA

Postby Army2Law » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:09 pm

I just thought of an outside the box benefit that adding an MBA might give. It probably won't help you land a job, but if you network well and make friends with your B School classmates at an elite school, then you could have an easier time bringing in clients and that would help out with making partner at a firm. This would mostly only be true at places with combos of great schools like Harvard, Stanford, and Penn, though. (Note: not meant to be a fully inclusive list, no need to say "But school X has great programs for both!")

bdubs
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Re: JD and MBA

Postby bdubs » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:21 pm

Army2Law wrote:I just thought of an outside the box benefit that adding an MBA might give. It probably won't help you land a job, but if you network well and make friends with your B School classmates at an elite school, then you could have an easier time bringing in clients and that would help out with making partner at a firm. This would mostly only be true at places with combos of great schools like Harvard, Stanford, and Penn, though. (Note: not meant to be a fully inclusive list, no need to say "But school X has great programs for both!")


You have to make partner in order to realize this benefit, associates generally don't bring in their own work.

dkt4
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Re: JD and MBA

Postby dkt4 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:57 pm

bdubs wrote:You have to make partner in order to realize this benefit, associates generally don't bring in their own work.


this is so true, most firms would scoff at an associate who could bring billables.

Army2Law
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Re: JD and MBA

Postby Army2Law » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:03 pm

I'm not acting like it is a typical situation or even one that would even enter into the calculus for 99% of people considering a JD/MBA, just thought it was an interesting angle of looking at an intangible benefit it could bring down the road.

HamDel
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Re: JD and MBA

Postby HamDel » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:03 am

I mean all this having been said, I don't think it's a bad idea necessarily either. People on this site tend to act like it's some kind of career killer that makes law firms uninterested, but after observing I think that's totally untrue. A lot of law firms give bonuses for it (or at least used to back when the economy was a thing), and even if they don't it is still highly valued by a lot of firms. Career wise, for some people it can confer an enormous advantage, but for others it will have no effect. Worst case though you bought another year of education, learned some finance, and it didn't add to your bottom line. As long as you're able to pay it off, it's not that big a deal.

I think the main thing to take away is that it depends a lot on you and your specific goals. If you don't want to go straight into law, it's probably helpful but may be unnecessary. If you want to be a lawyer long term, it's not really useful. If you want to be a lawyer for a while and then switch to something else, it can be very useful because you will have a skill set that sets you apart from other lawyers going for the same jobs. However, for this third one it's probably only true if you make that jump within five years or so out of law school. After a certain point you're just another old lawyer who happened to learn finance back in the time of dinosaurs and no one is going to care because they will fundamentally think of you as a lawyer with a lawyer mentality and lawyer skills. It can be a great raft to transition on, but you should have an idea of when you want to deploy it.




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