Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

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aclaw55
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Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby aclaw55 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:31 pm

I am one of the very few who actually took the advice of this board and did not rush into TTT / TTTT just because I want to be a lawyer. I have plenty of friends who have and think I am making an awful decision sitting out a second year post college, but I genuinely dont understand why there isn't specific pre-law class requirements? I also would love to see alot of TTTT's shut down. If a person cannot find it within themself to work as hard as they can on a beatable exam, and put the correct amount of time in then what kind of lawyer do you expect? I am one who took the LSAT twice and did not score highly at all, but I will not allow myself to be called a law student unless I work hard enough to earn it. Between the saturated law market and the economy it boggles my mind how I have a friend at STU Miami bragging about being a lawyer, and telling me to enjoy making worst decision of my life. This came up in conversation last night with my brother who is attending medical school and I figured I'd ask your thoughts on this everyone?

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bk1
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby bk1 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:32 pm

What a new and novel concept that has never been discussed before.

Though I do congratulate you on your prudence.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby Bildungsroman » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:33 pm

aclaw55 wrote: but I genuinely dont understand why there isn't specific pre-law class requirements?

What classes would be required? Law school doesn't require a lot of prior knowledge coming in to it like med school does, creating a requirement just to create a requirement sounds silly.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:37 pm

I disagree with the prelaw class requirement. People come from every field of study and go to work as lawyers in many different fields.
I do agree that most TTTTs and TTTs shouldn't exist and that you made the right call in waiting a year.

09042014
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:38 pm

aclaw55 wrote:I am one of the very few who actually took the advice of this board and did not rush into TTT / TTTT just because I want to be a lawyer. I have plenty of friends who have and think I am making an awful decision sitting out a second year post college, but I genuinely dont understand why there isn't specific pre-law class requirements? I also would love to see alot of TTTT's shut down. If a person cannot find it within themself to work as hard as they can on a beatable exam, and put the correct amount of time in then what kind of lawyer do you expect? I am one who took the LSAT twice and did not score highly at all, but I will not allow myself to be called a law student unless I work hard enough to earn it. Between the saturated law market and the economy it boggles my mind how I have a friend at STU Miami bragging about being a lawyer, and telling me to enjoy making worst decision of my life. This came up in conversation last night with my brother who is attending medical school and I figured I'd ask your thoughts on this everyone?


There aren't any prelaw required classes because you don't need to know anything to start at law school. They teach you the basics during 1L, then you take a couple decent classes and tons of bullshit for two years.

Being called a law student shouldn't be a source of pride, but of shame.

aclaw55
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby aclaw55 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:39 pm

I'm aware this isn't a new concept, I was just curious about how all of you felt about it.

I'm not exactly sure what courses they should require, but I would imagine mock trials and intensified reading and writing classes pertaining to cases can only help you for law school?

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby Bildungsroman » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:41 pm

aclaw55 wrote:I'm aware this isn't a new concept, I was just curious about how all of you felt about it.

I'm not exactly sure what courses they should require, but I would imagine mock trials and intensified reading and writing classes pertaining to cases can only help you for law school?

Undergrad mock trial is silly and requiring it would drive away the kind of students schools should try and attract.

Edit: I say this having never participated and knowing only chill people as participants.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:41 pm

aclaw55 wrote:I'm aware this isn't a new concept, I was just curious about how all of you felt about it.

I'm not exactly sure what courses they should require, but I would imagine mock trials and intensified reading and writing classes pertaining to cases can only help you for law school?

I'm only an 0L, but from what I've read here, learning about cases before law school might actually be bad?

09042014
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:43 pm

aclaw55 wrote:I'm aware this isn't a new concept, I was just curious about how all of you felt about it.

I'm not exactly sure what courses they should require, but I would imagine mock trials and intensified reading and writing classes pertaining to cases can only help you for law school?


Not really. The reading in law school is pretty straight forward. The writing is weird, and best taught in law school.

You'd be adding arbitrary requirements which would just fuck over some people, mostly non trads. Law school would just be filled with more K-JD dbag mocktrial gunners.

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bk1
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby bk1 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:43 pm

What about legal fields where outside knowledge is necessary? Would this require someone to double major in prelaw and science?

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:45 pm

People are always welcome to start there own firms post graduation.

In fact, TTT/TTTTs seem to do a good job of teaching practical skills - and I'm actually being serious. The higher you go up in the rankings, the more your education is theory based.

On another note - Instead of arbitrarily singling out TTT/TTTTs to be shutdown, I would argue that no state needs more than 3 law schools. If the market is not completely served by those three, out of state graduates would surely flock in for those positions. Problem solved (well, do that and limit the number of seats in each law school to something around 250 per class).

09042014
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:46 pm

What I would do if I were a college, is re-create the LLB. You do two years of gen eds, then do 1L, and then 2L without bullshit Law and the Vagina style classes.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:47 pm

Patent bar already has science requirements.

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Corwin
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby Corwin » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:47 pm

Simple reason: adding requirements for admission to law school would reduce enrollment and consequently reduce the revenue of schools. There's no incentive for the law schools to made it harder to go because despite the job prospects people are still willing to pay the tuition.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:48 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:People are always welcome to start there own firms post graduation.

In fact, TTT/TTTTs seem to do a good job of teaching practical skills - and I'm actually being serious. The higher you go up in the rankings, the more your education is theory based.

On another note - Instead of arbitrarily singling out TTT/TTTTs to be shutdown, I would argue that no state needs more than 3 law schools. If the market is not completely served by those three, out of state graduates would surely flock in for those positions. Problem solved (well, do that and limit the number of seats in each law school to something around 250 per class).

So, NYU, Columbia and Cornell. Stanford, Berkeley and UCLA. Fordham, USC and UCI are all out?

09042014
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:49 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:People are always welcome to start there own firms post graduation.

In fact, TTT/TTTTs seem to do a good job of teaching practical skills - and I'm actually being serious. The higher you go up in the rankings, the more your education is theory based.

On another note - Instead of arbitrarily singling out TTT/TTTTs to be shutdown, I would argue that no state needs more than 3 law schools. If the market is not completely served by those three, out of state graduates would surely flock in for those positions. Problem solved (well, do that and limit the number of seats in each law school to something around 250 per class).


750 seats per state is a fuck load more arbitrary than just getting rid of TTTs.

Also, I agree that TTT's are more practical, if by practical you mean they teach the bar for three years because their students are waterheads who can't learn it in two months like everyone else.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:51 pm

An alternative approach is to make law schools less profitable by reducing term of study to two years (plus, possibly, a one year apprenticeship) and making student loans dischargeable in bankruptcy (as they once were).
Additionally, law schools should be required to meet tougher certification standards.

09042014
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:52 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:An alternative approach is to make law schools less profitable by reducing term of study to two years (plus, possibly, a one year apprenticeship) and making student loans dischargeable in bankruptcy (as they once were).
Additionally, law schools should be required to meet tougher certification standards.


2 years- I agree strongly
1 year apprenticeship is TTT -this doesn't need to be a requirement
Making loans dis-chargeable in bankruptcy would make the loans impossibly expensive.

virgilcaine86
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby virgilcaine86 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:33 pm

aclaw55 wrote:I am one of the very few who actually took the advice of this board and did not rush into TTT / TTTT just because I want to be a lawyer. I have plenty of friends who have and think I am making an awful decision sitting out a second year post college, but I genuinely dont understand why there isn't specific pre-law class requirements? I also would love to see alot of TTTT's shut down. If a person cannot find it within themself to work as hard as they can on a beatable exam, and put the correct amount of time in then what kind of lawyer do you expect? I am one who took the LSAT twice and did not score highly at all, but I will not allow myself to be called a law student unless I work hard enough to earn it. Between the saturated law market and the economy it boggles my mind how I have a friend at STU Miami bragging about being a lawyer, and telling me to enjoy making worst decision of my life. This came up in conversation last night with my brother who is attending medical school and I figured I'd ask your thoughts on this everyone?



Why exactly do you think Fourth tier ABA accredited schools should be shut down? I'm trying to figure out the logic behind your comments.

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bk1
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby bk1 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:38 pm

virgilcaine86 wrote:Why exactly do you think Fourth tier ABA accredited schools should be shut down? I'm trying to figure out the logic behind your comments.


They make money off of the backs of kids who don't know any better, leaving them severely indebted with horrible job prospects.

I mean that's the problem, but there are several ways to go about it (shutting down TTT/TTTT law schools is one, making student loans harder to get is another, etc, etc).

virgilcaine86
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby virgilcaine86 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:44 pm

I hear ya. But I think the best way is to re evauate their accredidation. School is a business just like everything else. If your not smart enough to realize what you are getting into before you do it than shame on you. Everyone applying for law school already has some type of 4 year degree. If someone wants to go to Cooley and piss way 200k that's their perogative and better for you and me.

09042014
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:48 pm

virgilcaine86 wrote:I hear ya. But I think the best way is to re evauate their accredidation. School is a business just like everything else. If your not smart enough to realize what you are getting into before you do it than shame on you. Everyone applying for law school already has some type of 4 year degree. If someone wants to go to Cooley and piss way 200k that's their perogative and better for you and me.


That's just the the thing. ABA and almost all law schools are supposed to be non profit.

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bk1
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby bk1 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:50 pm

Desert Fox wrote:That's just the the thing. ABA and almost all law schools are supposed to be non profit.


I wonder at what point in the rankings (roughly) do law schools become profitable.

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NZA
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby NZA » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:51 pm

virgilcaine86 wrote:I hear ya. But I think the best way is to re evauate their accredidation. School is a business just like everything else. If your not smart enough to realize what you are getting into before you do it than shame on you. Everyone applying for law school already has some type of 4 year degree. If someone wants to go to Cooley and piss way 200k that's their perogative and better for you and me.

How is having a generation of debt-saddled young people a good thing for "you and me?"

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rayiner
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Re: Why not make law school admissions requirements harder?

Postby rayiner » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:52 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
virgilcaine86 wrote:I hear ya. But I think the best way is to re evauate their accredidation. School is a business just like everything else. If your not smart enough to realize what you are getting into before you do it than shame on you. Everyone applying for law school already has some type of 4 year degree. If someone wants to go to Cooley and piss way 200k that's their perogative and better for you and me.


That's just the the thing. ABA and almost all law schools are supposed to be non profit.




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