Employment whilst in Law School

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Mathias
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Employment whilst in Law School

Postby Mathias » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:33 am

I'm starting as a 1L this fall and while I shouldn't, there is no way to get around having to work. It is what it is. I'll be working 20 hours with an understanding employer, so I have that at least in my favour.

With that being said - I've always wondered. How do the schools/ABA know that you're not working full time? Is it pure honour code, or do they ask to see tax statements?

BeaverHunter
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby BeaverHunter » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:43 am

No idea how or if they would know, but I find the policy quite odd, given that part time students that take 2/3 of a full time course load are permitted to work full time.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby Kilpatrick » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:50 am

I'm curious to know how there's no way getting around having to work. Are you being blackmailed?

theantiscalia
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby theantiscalia » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:08 pm

Mathias wrote:I'm starting as a 1L this fall and while I shouldn't, there is no way to get around having to work. It is what it is. I'll be working 20 hours with an understanding employer, so I have that at least in my favour.

With that being said - I've always wondered. How do the schools/ABA know that you're not working full time? Is it pure honour code, or do they ask to see tax statements?


I think it is pure honor code. Don't fear the ABA.

I think this notion that you won't have time to work is a load of bullshit. 20 hours per week might be a bit much, but I had a surprising amount of free time this year... and I ended up at the top of my class.

It all depends on how efficiently you work... when you're studying, no Facebook or G-Chat.

Mathias
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby Mathias » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:09 pm

Kilpatrick wrote:I'm curious to know how there's no way getting around having to work. Are you being blackmailed?


Seriously?

Work is required to support myself whilst in school. There is not any other way around it.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby Kilpatrick » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:11 pm

I just realized that you are probably British and can't get federal loans, so I get it now. Not sure why that had to be a secret though

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Flips88
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby Flips88 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:12 pm

Mathias wrote:
Kilpatrick wrote:I'm curious to know how there's no way getting around having to work. Are you being blackmailed?


Seriously?

Work is required to support myself whilst in school. There is not any other way around it.

Loans?

Though it seems like you're an international student and may not get federal loans?

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Flips88
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby Flips88 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:12 pm

Mathias wrote:
Kilpatrick wrote:I'm curious to know how there's no way getting around having to work. Are you being blackmailed?


Seriously?

Work is required to support myself whilst in school. There is not any other way around it.

Loans?

Though it seems like you're an international student and may not get federal loans?

Mathias
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby Mathias » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:08 pm

Kilpatrick wrote:I just realized that you are probably British and can't get federal loans, so I get it now. Not sure why that had to be a secret though


I'm quite eligible to get loans - I would rather only get loans for what I absolutely need (books/tuition) instead of graduating 100k+ in debt. I worked 50+ hours as a full time (~15-18 credits) undergrad and still managed an excellent GPA.

It was not a secret, but it was not my question. Having to explain that is irrelevant to the question I had at hand.

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NYC Law
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby NYC Law » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:10 pm

IDK but stop using the word whilst

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blurbz
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby blurbz » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:48 pm

OP: I would adjust your attitude and level of defensiveness. I don't think you'll be able to get hired (either while in school or after graduating) whilst being a douchebag.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby Kilpatrick » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:00 pm

Mathias wrote:
Kilpatrick wrote:I just realized that you are probably British and can't get federal loans, so I get it now. Not sure why that had to be a secret though


I'm quite eligible to get loans - I would rather only get loans for what I absolutely need (books/tuition) instead of graduating 100k+ in debt. I worked 50+ hours as a full time (~15-18 credits) undergrad and still managed an excellent GPA.

It was not a secret, but it was not my question. Having to explain that is irrelevant to the question I had at hand.


I never understand this logic from posters. You ask a question that makes no sense because you don't include all the information. Then you get defensive and claim that the information was 'irrelevant'. If you would just fully explain your situation, you'd get better answers.

Here's why it's relevant. If you can't get federal loans then working might make sense. I wouldn't even go to law school if I had to take out private loans, but if you really want to work instead of taking out private loans then I guess go ahead.

If you're telling me that you are eligible for federal loans and are just choosing not to take them, then that's stupid. (And also dishonest since in the first post you said there was no way around working).

Law school is not like undergrad. I'm sure some people can spend their free time working instead of studying and still be at the top of the class, but do you really want to take that risk?

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Bill Cosby
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby Bill Cosby » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:09 pm

Unless you're working under the table, you'll have to pay taxes on your income. You'll be asked where you'd worked on your bar application. So you can commit tax fraud or admit to a tax violation on your bar app.

Mathias
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby Mathias » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:36 pm

Kilpatrick wrote:Here's why it's relevant. If you can't get federal [...]


Can't see the forest from the trees?

Mathias wrote:How do the schools/ABA know that you're not working full time? Is it pure honour code, or do they ask to see tax statements?


That was my question. Loans were not part of the question. Your harping on that fact was irrelevant to my original question, which generally has been answered. While I'm not considering any sort of dishonesty, I was legitimately interested in how they know/prove hours worked beyond the twenty.

With that being said. :: Taking grad plus, unsubsidized loans, et. all, may ultimately make law school easier, it will not make post-law school easier. Suffer now vs. Suffer later. I've chosen the former.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby Kilpatrick » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:43 pm

Um.. doing well in law school makes post-law school life easier. But you're kind of a douche so I'll stop trying to help you

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Flips88
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby Flips88 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:46 pm

So let's say you get a job paying $10/hr so you work 20 hrs/wk for 9 months. That's $7200.

You're going to risk drastically affecting your grades and ability to get a job for $7k?

If you're only worried about being more than $100k in debt then $7k won't be that big of a burden.

And to echo above: if you talk to any current student on here they say that law school is basically a full time job so you'd be looking at 60 hours+ with a part-time job. While it may ease your mind to be slightly less in debt, you'll have no free time and your quality of life will suffer.

Don't do it.

ETA: No one is saying PT jobs aren't possible for 2L and 3L. I've heard plenty of people that say that's fine. However, it's a definite no-no for 1L

ColomboHeat
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby ColomboHeat » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:52 pm

Image

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Verity
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby Verity » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:54 pm

Working is for wimps and fatties.

Mathias
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby Mathias » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:33 pm

Kilpatrick wrote:Um.. doing well in law school makes post-law school life easier. But you're kind of a douche so I'll stop trying to help you


Much appreciated.

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Verity
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby Verity » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:04 pm

ColomboHeat wrote:pic



That made my day.

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kazu
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby kazu » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:11 pm

Flips88 wrote:You're going to risk drastically affecting your grades and ability to get a job for $7k?

This. Even the slightest possible bump in grades, made possible by those extra 20 hours to study/destress/workout etc will be worth much more than that $7k.

Mathias
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby Mathias » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:19 pm

kazu wrote:
Flips88 wrote:You're going to risk drastically affecting your grades and ability to get a job for $7k?

This. Even the slightest possible bump in grades, made possible by those extra 20 hours to study/destress/workout etc will be worth much more than that $7k.


Certainly not for 7k. For what I'm earning as half my full time salary, definitely. Will it be a risk? Of course. If I see it becoming a burden upon my studies, then I'll have to re-evaluate my decision and choose an alternate course. Currently, I've analyzed it and determined it to be a sound financial decision. Did I ask for your respective opinions in this regard? Absolutely not. I'm an adult and am fully aware of potential repercussions. As adults, I would expect those that chose to reply to respect that decision instead of upping their post count and ignoring my original question.

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Bill Cosby
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby Bill Cosby » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:22 pm

Mathias wrote:
kazu wrote:
Flips88 wrote:You're going to risk drastically affecting your grades and ability to get a job for $7k?

This. Even the slightest possible bump in grades, made possible by those extra 20 hours to study/destress/workout etc will be worth much more than that $7k.


Certainly not for 7k. For what I'm earning as half my full time salary, definitely. Will it be a risk? Of course. If I see it becoming a burden upon my studies, then I'll have to re-evaluate my decision and choose an alternate course. Currently, I've analyzed it and determined it to be a sound financial decision. Did I ask for your respective opinions in this regard? Absolutely not. I'm an adult and am fully aware of potential repercussions. As adults, I would expect those that chose to reply to respect that decision instead of upping their post count and ignoring my original question.


Which also been addressed: your school may or may not find out, but you'll have to report it on your bar application, which is going to be problematic.

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swinger
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby swinger » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:29 pm

Mathias wrote:
kazu wrote:
Flips88 wrote:You're going to risk drastically affecting your grades and ability to get a job for $7k?

This. Even the slightest possible bump in grades, made possible by those extra 20 hours to study/destress/workout etc will be worth much more than that $7k.


Certainly not for 7k. For what I'm earning as half my full time salary, definitely. Will it be a risk? Of course. If I see it becoming a burden upon my studies, then I'll have to re-evaluate my decision and choose an alternate course. Currently, I've analyzed it and determined it to be a sound financial decision. Did I ask for your respective opinions in this regard? Absolutely not. I'm an adult and am fully aware of potential repercussions. As adults, I would expect those that chose to reply to respect that decision instead of upping their post count and ignoring my original question.


First of all, I do not have any answer to your original question. If you would like to stop reading, feel free. I just wanted to point out that this is a forum where people share insight from personal experiences of theirs/their friends/their friends friends. While I agree that people should have tried to answer the question if they could, you can't really be mad at (most of) them for simply trying to give you the facts and make a strong argument about why you should not work. They don't know your situation (the salary you are getting/why you so strongly want to risk your 1L grades-by far the most important- for that salary when loans are an option, etc) but they are just trying to put the argument out there in case you hadn't seen it. You are a 0L, we are not. We have seen what happens when people try to work part-time and as such tried to at least get you to recognize the alternative and reevaluate. If you have already heard it, thats great, but please do not act like your post is in a bubble where you ask a question and only that question should be answered and nothing else should be stated- thats just not how it works. Don't get all preachy about how they should give you the answer and /thread. Use the info you find helpful and ignore the rest.

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blurbz
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Re: Employment whilst in Law School

Postby blurbz » Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:18 pm

If your salary is big enough that half of it is worth jeopardizing your grades, then you don't need law school.

hth.




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