What people on TLS fail to realize

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JoeC12
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What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby JoeC12 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:41 pm

I have been reading these forums for quite some time now. Although I have not posted frequently, I believe I have seen enough on here to make a fair assumption on the attitudes of TLS members as well as common misconceptions they have.

A great emphasis of TLS is the top 14 (hence the name of the website). A very large majority of the people on here believe, for the most part, its t-14 or bust. I believe too large an emphasis is placed on the t-14 and what school you go to in general. By no means am I advocating for non-ABA accredited schools. I am speaking mostly about the top 100 and Tier 2 schools. The general consensus on here is that the higher ranked schools have a huge advantage over the schools ranked below them in terms of employment. While the higher ranked school MIGHT give a better opportunity to interview for employment, IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU WILL GET THE JOB SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU GO TO A HIGHER RANKED SCHOOL.

The point I'm trying to make is that too much emphasis is placed on what school you go to and not enough is placed on the actions you take while in that school to secure employment after law school. Hypothetical situation: Bob is a 3L at Cornell University, a top 14 law school. Bob did really well on his LSAT and that granted him admission to one of the best law schools in the country. Bob is highly regarded as a very smart guy, top 25% in his class, law review, etc. However, Bob is overweight and generally doesn't care too much about his appearance. In addition to this, Bob is socially awkward and is not personable whatsoever. Jim is a 3L at Rutgers-Newark, a top 100 law school. Jim is top 25% in his class at Rutgers-Newark and thought of very highly by his peers because of his intellectual ability as well as his personality. Jim is a good looking guy and interviews extremely well. An aura of confidence surrounds Jim and it's contagious. If Bob and Jim are interviewing for the same job, there is no way in hell that Bob gets it over Jim. Most people on this website would automatically assume that Bob will get the job simply because his school is ranked higher. What about your ability to network, personality, appearance, etc? These are often overlooked by people on this site. All things being equal, yea Bob would probably get the job over Jim. But it is extremely rare that applicants for a job are equal in every aspect. When this inequality exists many on this site believe that the one with the higher ranked school always comes out on top. I strongly disagree.

longhornlaw
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby longhornlaw » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:43 pm

For a moment I thought this was going to be something from tax guy, but was disappointed.

Image

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Moxie
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby Moxie » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:43 pm

tl;dr

duckmoney
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby duckmoney » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:47 pm

Cornell would still get the job.

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FantasticMrFox
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby FantasticMrFox » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:48 pm

Did you lose a job to an overweight, socially awkward dude from Cornell?

09042014
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:48 pm

JoeC12 wrote:I have been reading these forums for quite some time now. Although I have not posted frequently, I believe I have seen enough on here to make a fair assumption on the attitudes of TLS members as well as common misconceptions they have.

A great emphasis of TLS is the top 14 (hence the name of the website). A very large majority of the people on here believe, for the most part, its t-14 or bust. I believe too large an emphasis is placed on the t-14 and what school you go to in general. By no means am I advocating for non-ABA accredited schools. I am speaking mostly about the top 100 and Tier 2 schools. The general consensus on here is that the higher ranked schools have a huge advantage over the schools ranked below them in terms of employment. While the higher ranked school MIGHT give a better opportunity to interview for employment, IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU WILL GET THE JOB SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU GO TO A HIGHER RANKED SCHOOL.

The point I'm trying to make is that too much emphasis is placed on what school you go to and not enough is placed on the actions you take while in that school to secure employment after law school. Hypothetical situation: Bob is a 3L at Cornell University, a top 14 law school. Bob did really well on his LSAT and that granted him admission to one of the best law schools in the country. Bob is highly regarded as a very smart guy, top 25% in his class, law review, etc. However, Bob is overweight and generally doesn't care too much about his appearance. In addition to this, Bob is socially awkward and is not personable whatsoever. Jim is a 3L at Rutgers-Newark, a top 100 law school. Jim is top 25% in his class at Rutgers-Newark and thought of very highly by his peers because of his intellectual ability as well as his personality. Jim is a good looking guy and interviews extremely well. An aura of confidence surrounds Jim and it's contagious. If Bob and Jim are interviewing for the same job, there is no way in hell that Bob gets it over Jim. Most people on this website would automatically assume that Bob will get the job simply because his school is ranked higher. What about your ability to network, personality, appearance, etc? These are often overlooked by people on this site. All things being equal, yea Bob would probably get the job over Jim. But it is extremely rare that applicants for a job are equal in every aspect. When this inequality exists many on this site believe that the one with the higher ranked school always comes out on top. I strongly disagree.


Jim wouldn't even get the interview in the first place.

notanumber
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby notanumber » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:51 pm

tl;dr version: It doesn't matter where you go to school. So long as you're not fat.

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NYC Law
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby NYC Law » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:51 pm

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bjsesq
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby bjsesq » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:56 pm

Gotta love rants against arguments which were never made. Nice thread, guy who lost "his spot" to a fat boy.

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loblaw
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby loblaw » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:59 pm

Answer: job goes to Todd, Bob's hot, charming classmate who got t-14 after his triumph at the national Ultimate Frisbee championships.

Bob finds his niche as a Biglaw tax lawyer where one there cares that he's a sweaty awkward fatty.

Jim can't get an interview and goes to traffic court. THE END.

In all seriousness, I do believe a little hustle goes a long way and that personality and presentation count for a lot. However, there are only so many jobs, and, unfortunately for the rest of us, a lot of t-14 people are also slim, intelligent, and charming. There are simply more opportunities for people at elite schools. Jim may beat Bob in your theoretical deathmatch, but IRL there would be tons of candidates behind Jim and Bob.

Don't fool yourself into thinking you will have the same opportunities or end up at the same interviews as Cornell Bob.
Last edited by loblaw on Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TUP
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby TUP » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:03 pm

It's a trick question. Bob already accepted the offer from his 2L SA.

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NYC Law
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby NYC Law » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:03 pm

Of all the ASDs I went to, I don't think I encountered anyone who was genuinely ugly, at least not to the point it would hurt their chances at getting a job. If anything, I've seen more at the lower tier schools around my home state (which is full of crap schools).

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Kilpatrick
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby Kilpatrick » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:09 pm

bjsesq wrote:Gotta love rants against arguments which were never made. Nice thread, guy who lost "his spot" to a fat boy.


This.

Every time someone posts one of these "Let me tell you what's wrong with TLS" rants, it is without fail about something that no regular, sane poster on TLS has ever said.

LoyalRebel
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby LoyalRebel » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:11 pm

95% of the people here haven't finished law school and therefore have very limited experience with the legal job market. 80% then proceed to talk out of their respective asses about how much better off they are than you.

Save the talk for when you've actually landed a job, I say.

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NYC Law
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby NYC Law » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:12 pm

LoyalRebel wrote:95% of the people here haven't finished law school and therefore have very limited experience with the legal job market. 80% then proceed to talk out of their respective asses about how much better off they are than you.

Save the talk for when you've actually landed a job, I say.


Have you ever seen actual lawyers? They aren't an attractive bunch.

LoyalRebel
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby LoyalRebel » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:16 pm

NYC Law wrote:
LoyalRebel wrote:95% of the people here haven't finished law school and therefore have very limited experience with the legal job market. 80% then proceed to talk out of their respective asses about how much better off they are than you.

Save the talk for when you've actually landed a job, I say.


Have you ever seen actual lawyers? They aren't an attractive bunch.


Ally McBeal

TLSNYC
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby TLSNYC » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:17 pm

Unless Jim is a URM, Bob is getting the job.
In fact, even if Jim is a URM, it's still a toss-up.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby paulinaporizkova » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:18 pm

JoeC12 wrote:Hypothetical situation: Bob is a 3L at Cornell University, a top 14 law school. Bob did really well on his LSAT and that granted him admission to one of the best law schools in the country. Bob is highly regarded as a very smart guy, top 25% in his class, law review, etc. However, Bob is overweight and generally doesn't care too much about his appearance. In addition to this, Bob is socially awkward and is not personable whatsoever. Jim is a 3L at Rutgers-Newark, a top 100 law school. Jim is top 25% in his class at Rutgers-Newark and thought of very highly by his peers because of his intellectual ability as well as his personality. Jim is a good looking guy and interviews extremely well. An aura of confidence surrounds Jim and it's contagious. If Bob and Jim are interviewing for the same job, there is no way in hell that Bob gets it over Jim.


I'm sure this has been said already, but you're fucking retarded

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sambeber
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby sambeber » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:21 pm

Is it possible that your top choice law school is Rutgers-Newark? Is it possible that you're a 0L? Is it possible that you're.... JIM????

Not to mention... you say that people don't consider "the actions you take while in school" enough. What do looks, personality and weight have to do with these things? In fact, setting aside for a second the differences in student body makeup at these two schools, haven't they done the same "actions while in school" (ie: top 25%)?

Except of course, one is on Law Review and one isn't. Only, it's not in the way that's helpful for your argument.

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Patriot1208
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby Patriot1208 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:27 pm

Is it possible Jim thinks he's more attractive than he really is?

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DaftAndDirect
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby DaftAndDirect » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:32 pm

Fat, ugly, and awkward people struggle that much in the job market huh? Didn't take that into account re: admissions this cycle...

Thanks for the insight OP. My LOCI's going forward will now contain "Fat Lost", "Muscle Gained" and "Bitches Slain Since Original Application Date" metrics.

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby KibblesAndVick » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:34 pm

JoeC12 wrote:Bob is a 3L at Cornell University, a top 14 law school. Bob did really well on his LSAT and that granted him admission to one of the best law schools in the country


subtle Cornell trolling...

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cinephile
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby cinephile » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:41 pm

But Bob can lose weight and get a new haircut, Jim can't change where he went to law school (unless he transfers).

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Jack Smirks
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby Jack Smirks » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:43 pm

This has got to be the most retardedest thing I've ever read.

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fatduck
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Re: What people on TLS fail to realize

Postby fatduck » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:48 pm

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND

IT'S TAMMY'S BIRTHDAY




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