Time to day trade during law school?

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shoeshine
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Time to day trade during law school?

Postby shoeshine » Tue May 24, 2011 4:05 am

I have traded on and off for several years. Thanks to a well timed rule change, a friend and I came up with a way to make modest weekly returns on "out of money" put and call options with very little risk. Over the last 20 weeks the returns have averaged about 8% per week. We double our money every nine weeks. I am not sure how long this will last because the rules could change or the price on these options could become less attractive at any time. For now it is an awesome and fun business venture. The only catch is that I have to basically be at my computer about three days a week for several hours researching and setting up the trades. Once I set up the trades it pretty much runs itself.

Will I have time to run this type of trading strategy while in law school? I am going to assume I could easily monitor stocks from my I-phone but I need about six hours of dedicated time per week to execute the strategy properly.

P.S. I wont tell you our exact strategy or what types of securities we target so don't ask.

(Edit: 4/21/12 - I am bumping this thread a year later to say that I actually didn't have time and that this was a terrible idea. The investment strategy fell apart in December when I stopped paying attention to the trades enough to stop some losses from snowballing. The options themselves are also now priced in a way that barely makes the old strategy viable either way. You live and you learn.)
Last edited by shoeshine on Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Gideon Strumpet
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby Gideon Strumpet » Tue May 24, 2011 5:21 am

Yes, you will have time to do something that takes six hours a week.

jdl239
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby jdl239 » Tue May 24, 2011 12:51 pm

Not trying to be rude here. But why are you going to law school if you can double your money every 8 weeks? If I could do that, I would dedicate all my time to it and make a career out of it.

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fundamentallybroken
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby fundamentallybroken » Tue May 24, 2011 12:54 pm

jdl239 wrote:Not trying to be rude here. But why are you going to law school if you can double your money every 8 weeks? If I could do that, I would dedicate all my time to it and make a career out of it.


shoeshine wrote:I am not sure how long this will last because the rules could change or the price on these options could become less attractive at any time.


One shouldn't try to make a career of something that is not certain, and could change at any time.

Oh wait...

shoeshine
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby shoeshine » Tue May 24, 2011 1:24 pm

jdl239 wrote:Not trying to be rude here. But why are you going to law school if you can double your money every 8 weeks? If I could do that, I would dedicate all my time to it and make a career out of it.


You are not being rude. I don't want to make a career out of it because it is incredibly unstable. Day trading is a fun hobby but I would liken choosing it as a career to deciding to become a professional poker player. There are incredible highs and lows to it. This latest strategy is good because it does not involve trading 8 hrs a day. Like I said earlier, there will probably be a rule change soon that will effect the way my strategy works.

Second of all, believe it or not I actually really want to practice law. I specifically want to go into corporate law (hence me choosing to attend a T6). I previously worked for a big financial firm and I am fascinated/obsessed with m & a transactions (everyone in finance is). Being able to be involved with the legal side of these deals would be a dream come true for me.

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AreJay711
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby AreJay711 » Tue May 24, 2011 1:28 pm

Get your loan money upfront, cut all but the most necessary expenses out of you budget, and profit (or live like a miser otherwise).

wojo96
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby wojo96 » Tue May 24, 2011 1:30 pm

Flame.

bmili
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby bmili » Wed May 25, 2011 9:15 am

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Last edited by bmili on Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

stylishlaw
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby stylishlaw » Thu May 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Sounds like you're selling straddles. 8% a week sounds a bit unreal.

bmili
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby bmili » Thu May 26, 2011 7:42 pm

.
Last edited by bmili on Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Hippononymous
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby Hippononymous » Thu May 26, 2011 7:52 pm

wojo96 wrote:Flame.

shoeshine
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby shoeshine » Thu May 26, 2011 8:03 pm

The 8% is net our entire investment in the strategy but not taxes :| . When we came up with the strategy we had estimated 4% returns but it has been wildly more successful than anticipated. You are all extremely perceptive and I will confess that it is not a traditional straddle but it is a derivative of that idea executed on a short term basis. We have some pretty serious risk controls built into the strategy but a choppy or unpredictable marketplace would ruin most of our profits (but not the capital).

I should also mention that the capital we trade with is only 12% mine. This operation only works at a certain scale (mostly because of transactional fees and trading limitations) and I do not have the adequate amount of money to make it fly. I am keeping 30% of the profits since I manage the trading.

I am glad to hear that some people believe it is not unrealistic for me to continue to trade while in school.
Last edited by shoeshine on Thu May 26, 2011 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DAJ_Summer
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby DAJ_Summer » Thu May 26, 2011 9:36 pm

You'll have plenty of time.

To the people calling flame, it's completely plausible. People beat the market for short periods of time with relative frequency, it's just that (as OP seems well aware) the market likes to hit back hard at some point.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby Tom Joad » Fri May 27, 2011 2:48 am

I hope I have time for a few hours a week otherwise my run of fantasy baseball dominance in my league of high school friends could end.

Seriously, I am the Yankees of this league.

balls
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby balls » Fri May 27, 2011 3:00 am

no way bro. you cant go to law school AND day trade at the same time. think of it this way:

a dick in the hand is worth two in the face.

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GATORTIM
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby GATORTIM » Fri May 27, 2011 3:32 am

shoeshine wrote:
jdl239 wrote:Not trying to be rude here. But why are you going to law school if you can double your money every 8 weeks? If I could do that, I would dedicate all my time to it and make a career out of it.


You are not being rude. I don't want to make a career out of it because it is incredibly unstable.


So you think law IS "stable"?

stylishlaw
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby stylishlaw » Fri May 27, 2011 4:05 am

bmili wrote:
stylishlaw wrote:Sounds like you're selling straddles. 8% a week sounds a bit unreal.



If he was selling straddles he would need the markets to be relatively stable plus he would need a good amount of margin with the unlimited risk. Im betting he gets 8% on his option position, not on his whole portfolio (it would be crazy to have 100% invested in options). Im sure there is a way to come up with different rules and disciplined trading to buy out of the money options with high deltas when the underlying has been over bought or over sold and sell on the reversal.


OP has admitted to a variant of being short straddles and requiring a stable market. I'm guessing he is long iron condors/butterfly, which makes sense since this market hasn't had a ton of volatility. You simply can't make 8% weekly on a consistent basis buying OTM options on reversals, that strategy is akin to buying lottery tickets with high payoff. OP is definitely short delta, and I'll just stop my discussion here because short-delta strategies have been discussed to death.

bmili
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby bmili » Fri May 27, 2011 8:21 am

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Last edited by bmili on Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

stylishlaw
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby stylishlaw » Fri May 27, 2011 9:39 am

I said I was guessing. Obviously everything is speculative, except for being short-delta. I was a prop trader and from experience the majority of options strategies that produce these kind of equity curves is short-delta (how he does it is not really important). Anyways, I'm not coming back into this thread since arguing this any further is unproductive.

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Fred_McGriff
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby Fred_McGriff » Mon May 30, 2011 6:20 pm

Consistant 8% weekly returns net of fees based on material publicly known information using put and call options eh.... Hey Farva what's the name of that restaurant you like with all the goofy shit on the walls and the mozzarella sticks?

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fatduck
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby fatduck » Mon May 30, 2011 6:21 pm

wtf is the point of this thread?

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Mon May 30, 2011 6:42 pm

fatduck wrote:wtf is the point of this thread?

Someone wanted to brag about an unsustainable streak of luck in the market he's been having lately.

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fatduck
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby fatduck » Mon May 30, 2011 6:44 pm

Mickey Quicknumbers wrote:
fatduck wrote:wtf is the point of this thread?

Someone wanted to brag about an unsustainable streak of luck in the market he's been having lately.

KNEW IT

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby Bildungsroman » Mon May 30, 2011 6:47 pm

Unfortunately law school takes up exactly 163 hours per week, so you won't have time for any 6 hour venture.

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rayiner
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Re: Time to day trade during law school?

Postby rayiner » Mon May 30, 2011 7:01 pm

Wow. I can't believe people actually do this shit.




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