Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

(Please Ask Questions and Answer Questions)
stephencolbert
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Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby stephencolbert » Tue May 10, 2011 2:18 pm

I'd love to do public policy/politics in DC after law school. Gunner 0L that I am, I've already started 1L job hunting. A graduate of my future school is a director at a public policy organization in DC where I'd love to intern/eventually work. I'm tempted to e-mail her to 1) ask for advice on law school, career, etc 2) connect with her in the hope that it will help me find a 1L job.

How would that be received? Could it help? Or could my gunner behavior end up hurting me?

kaiser
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby kaiser » Tue May 10, 2011 2:23 pm

This is actually a very smart thing to do. Kudos to you for thinking of it. Most of the supposedly "smart" people run for supplements and prep books, while you actually realized an honest way to get an edge. Never hesitate to broaden your contacts and get in touch with your school's alumni network.

But don't be pushy. Ask for advice, discuss their experiences in school and on the job, keep in touch, etc. And down the road, when you are looking into 1L positions, you will have a comfort level where you can inquire whether that person's organization is hiring. And for all you know, your contact will look into it and put in a good word for you.

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beachbum
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby beachbum » Tue May 10, 2011 2:26 pm

kaiser wrote:This is actually a very smart thing to do. Kudos to you for thinking of it. Most of the supposedly "smart" people run for supplements and prep books, while you actually realized an honest way to get an edge. Never hesitate to broaden your contacts and get in touch with your school's alumni network.

But don't be pushy. Ask for advice, discuss their experiences in school and on the job, keep in touch, etc. And down the road, when you are looking into 1L positions, you will have a comfort level where you can inquire whether that person's organization is hiring. And for all you know, your contact will look into it and put in a good word for you.


+1. Conducting these informational interviews is a great way to make contacts and get your foot in the door for the upcoming job search. And people love to talk about themselves; I'm sure she can give you some good info about her job/organization, and on her law school experience (assuming she has the time available to meet with you).

stephencolbert
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby stephencolbert » Tue May 10, 2011 3:10 pm

I'd especially like her input because I'm going to a T20 in the midwest... not exactly the most likely path to DC. So I'd love some insight into how she pulled it off.

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TTH
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby TTH » Wed May 11, 2011 1:19 pm

Yeah, this is all fine. Another protip, if you're interested in trying to get a firm job (and DC BigLaw can lead to policy work pretty easily), start researching firms now and drafting firm-specific paragraphs to drop into your cover letters for December 1. You won't have time to do this during school.

23402385985
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby 23402385985 » Wed May 11, 2011 9:37 pm

dot

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MrKappus
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby MrKappus » Wed May 11, 2011 9:40 pm

+1 to all of the advice in this thread. Things seem to have worked out so far, but 1L year and summer would have been a lot easier if I'd thought of or heard this going in.

BeenDidThat
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby BeenDidThat » Wed May 11, 2011 9:47 pm

stephencolbert wrote:I'd love to do public policy/politics in DC after law school. Gunner 0L that I am, I've already started 1L job hunting. A graduate of my future school is a director at a public policy organization in DC where I'd love to intern/eventually work. I'm tempted to e-mail her to 1) ask for advice on law school, career, etc 2) connect with her in the hope that it will help me find a 1L job.

How would that be received? Could it help? Or could my gunner behavior end up hurting me?


Interest = Good. People like talking about what they do, especially with someone who seems interested in their work. If you're genuinely interested in this public policy org., reaching out is a great idea. Regardless of if this particular org. ends up hiring you, getting a better feel for the employment landscape and getting to know someone who could likely point you in the direction of similar orgs may end up being quite valuable.

Transparent Self Servinginity = Not good. As a 0L, don't get on the topic of working unless it's brought up by the other person. This is just common sense, though. But I wanted to point it out because common sense is not always an attribute possessed by law students (or soon-to-be law students).

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arvcondor
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby arvcondor » Thu May 12, 2011 6:01 am

I've started doing similar things and people have been really receptive.

I asked this in another thread, but it died early and I'll ask again: Should you restrict this outreach mainly to alumni of your school?

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Kabuo
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby Kabuo » Thu May 12, 2011 6:32 am

stephencolbert wrote:I'd especially like her input because I'm going to a T20 in the midwest... not exactly the most likely path to DC. So I'd love some insight into how she pulled it off.


So mysterious. But really like the advice about doing cover letters now. Might just get on that.

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arvcondor
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby arvcondor » Thu May 12, 2011 6:51 am

Kabuo wrote:
stephencolbert wrote:I'd especially like her input because I'm going to a T20 in the midwest... not exactly the most likely path to DC. So I'd love some insight into how she pulled it off.


So mysterious. But really like the advice about doing cover letters now. Might just get on that.

To be fair, T20 in the midwest could include Chicago and Northwestern, along with WUSTL, which is what I assume you're thinking.

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niederbomb
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby niederbomb » Thu May 12, 2011 7:05 am

arvcondor wrote:
Kabuo wrote:
stephencolbert wrote:I'd especially like her input because I'm going to a T20 in the midwest... not exactly the most likely path to DC. So I'd love some insight into how she pulled it off.


So mysterious. But really like the advice about doing cover letters now. Might just get on that.

To be fair, T20 in the midwest could include Chicago and Northwestern, along with WUSTL, which is what I assume you're thinking.


IF it was NU or Chi, OP would have said "T14" (or "T13" if he/she hates Georgetown or UT).

Most likely, the school is WUSTL, with Minnesota also a possibility.

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ktg808
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby ktg808 » Mon May 16, 2011 4:00 am

Interesting, I didn't know we could reach out to lawyers/firms/organizations prior to the December 1 deadline.

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johnnyutah
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby johnnyutah » Mon May 16, 2011 12:56 pm

stephencolbert wrote:I'd love to do public policy/politics in DC after law school. Gunner 0L that I am, I've already started 1L job hunting. A graduate of my future school is a director at a public policy organization in DC where I'd love to intern/eventually work. I'm tempted to e-mail her to 1) ask for advice on law school, career, etc 2) connect with her in the hope that it will help me find a 1L job.

How would that be received? Could it help? Or could my gunner behavior end up hurting me?

Normally, the gunner shit that 0Ls want to do it pretty useless. Job search/networking stuff is the exception, however. The more attorneys you can connect with, the better. Good on you, man.

09042014
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby 09042014 » Mon May 16, 2011 1:09 pm

Networking isn't gunning.

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whirledpeas86
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby whirledpeas86 » Mon May 16, 2011 1:31 pm

ktg808 wrote:Interesting, I didn't know we could reach out to lawyers/firms/organizations prior to the December 1 deadline.


I'm pretty sure any networking is okay before school starts. Once school starts, according to NALP guidelines, you can't contact firms before December 1st. Then again, I'm also a 0L, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Mon May 16, 2011 2:21 pm

whirledpeas86 wrote:
ktg808 wrote:Interesting, I didn't know we could reach out to lawyers/firms/organizations prior to the December 1 deadline.


I'm pretty sure any networking is okay before school starts. Once school starts, according to NALP guidelines, you can't contact firms before December 1st. Then again, I'm also a 0L, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

The answer to this implied question is relevant to my interests.

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Moxie
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby Moxie » Mon May 16, 2011 2:23 pm

whirledpeas86 wrote:
ktg808 wrote:Interesting, I didn't know we could reach out to lawyers/firms/organizations prior to the December 1 deadline.


I'm pretty sure any networking is okay before school starts. Once school starts, according to NALP guidelines, you can't contact firms before December 1st. Then again, I'm also a 0L, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong.


Emailing individuals about advice doesn't fall under these guidelines, and even if it did, how would you be reprimanded for it?

AP-375
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby AP-375 » Mon May 16, 2011 5:45 pm

I've started doing this and have talked to maybe six alums so far, and I've been blown away by how receptive/friendly/helpful they've been. Each has been at least a 25 min phone call ending with their offer to help out however they can.
Seems like the best thing I could be doing right now.

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ktg808
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby ktg808 » Mon May 16, 2011 8:45 pm

Score! Time to start stalking networking!

stephencolbert
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby stephencolbert » Mon May 16, 2011 9:09 pm

OP here - thanks for your wise counsel, fellow TLSers.

dakatz
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby dakatz » Mon May 16, 2011 9:13 pm

Its oddly refreshing to see a thread of people who are actually doing things the right way. You guys are running laps around the supposedly "smart" kids who think they are getting an edge by reading prep books. Good for you guys. Law school is a reactionary and counterintuitive game in which people often "lose the forest for the trees". They fail to perceive the end goals because they are so focused on what is right in front of them. Reading useless prep books is that kind of reactionary thing, and understandably so since it is the first tree in front of you. But you guys are thinking the right way and have the bigger picture in mind. You have no idea how helpful this may end up being.

viking138
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby viking138 » Mon May 16, 2011 9:35 pm

Definitely reach out to people in areas you're interested in! I did that with biglaw attorneys last semester and learned a lot. I also found a quasi-mentor who has given me so much great advice. I highly, highly recommend what you're suggesting. As others have noted, just make sure it's not "get me a job" so much as "I'm so interested in what you do and would love to get your advice."

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niederbomb
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby niederbomb » Tue May 17, 2011 8:44 am

johnnyutah wrote:
stephencolbert wrote:I'd love to do public policy/politics in DC after law school. Gunner 0L that I am, I've already started 1L job hunting. A graduate of my future school is a director at a public policy organization in DC where I'd love to intern/eventually work. I'm tempted to e-mail her to 1) ask for advice on law school, career, etc 2) connect with her in the hope that it will help me find a 1L job.

How would that be received? Could it help? Or could my gunner behavior end up hurting me?

Normally, the gunner shit that 0Ls want to do it pretty useless. Job search/networking stuff is the exception, however. The more attorneys you can connect with, the better. Good on you, man.


Agree - am doing this already.

If the question you ask is, "how do you recommend going about finding a 1L summer job?" to an alumnus from your school, then you will not get reprimanded. In networking, as in law, it's all about the phrasing.

viking138
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Re: Gunner 0L - Please talk me down...

Postby viking138 » Tue May 17, 2011 1:36 pm

Just to add, I think a lot of people have a greater affinity for fellow alums of their undergrad than their grad school. If you're from a smaller undergrad, or one that alumni feel very strongly about (like UMich), then reaching out to lawyers that are alums of your undergrad can be more useful, in my experience.




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