how much does US News Ranking Matter?

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Jah'rakal
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how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby Jah'rakal » Sun May 08, 2011 11:41 pm

we all know about elite t-14, 15, t-20, but what about for schools after it? davis/bloomington rank no. 23, does that make them better than say wisconsin, american, maryland? or wake forest and north carolina?

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Dany
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby Dany » Sun May 08, 2011 11:47 pm

Does not matter. What matters is where you want to work after graduation and what schools are in that region.

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Jah'rakal
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby Jah'rakal » Mon May 09, 2011 12:04 am

Dany wrote:Does not matter. What matters is where you want to work after graduation and what schools are in that region.

if that's true, how abt unc vs wake forest?

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PinkCow
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby PinkCow » Mon May 09, 2011 12:13 am

Jah'rakal wrote:
Dany wrote:Does not matter. What matters is where you want to work after graduation and what schools are in that region.

if that's true, how abt unc vs wake forest?



UNC

shoeshine
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby shoeshine » Mon May 09, 2011 12:21 am

Dany wrote:Does not matter. What matters is where you want to work after graduation and what schools are in that region.

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tyro
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby tyro » Mon May 09, 2011 12:36 am

shoeshine wrote:
Dany wrote:Does not matter. What matters is where you want to work after graduation and what schools are in that region.


This is the typical response, although I'm thinking there will be obvious advantages to attending a higher ranked regional school compared to another lower ranked regional school in the same region. For example, UIUC is going to be better if you want to work in Chicago compared to Loyola because it is more selective. Also, some regional schools with traditionally elite statuses in the region such as WUSL may provide a slight boost when it comes to employment because of the highly selective reputation. Refer to Barron's Selectivity Index for additional examples.

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Lawquacious
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby Lawquacious » Mon May 09, 2011 12:42 am

Dany wrote:Does not matter. What matters is where you want to work after graduation and what schools are in that region.


To some extent I think this is true, but there is going to be a big difference between a T30 school (or even T50 to a lesser extent) and a school that is ranked in the 80s or 90s. Even though T30 school and lower T100 school are both 'regional' in terms of placement, it doesn't mean there won't be meaningful differences in the degree of regional reach of schools in these respective ranges. Also, as a general rule there will be signficant qualitative differences in the education one would receive at these comparative ranges (such as peers and professors). I think even lower T50 v. lower T30 are likely to have some significant differences, although clearly with any 'regional' law school regional considerations could trump the qualitative/quantitative input that rankings are based on.

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Lawquacious
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby Lawquacious » Mon May 09, 2011 12:43 am

tyro wrote:
shoeshine wrote:
Dany wrote:Does not matter. What matters is where you want to work after graduation and what schools are in that region.


This is the typical response, although I'm thinking there will be obvious advantages to attending a higher ranked regional school compared to another lower ranked regional school in the same region. For example, UIUC is going to be better if you want to work in Chicago compared to Loyola because it is more selective. Also, some regional schools with traditionally elite statuses in the region such as WUSL may provide a slight boost when it comes to employment because of the highly selective reputation. Refer to Barron's Selectivity Index for additional examples.


Yep, this too.

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Dany
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby Dany » Mon May 09, 2011 12:49 am

I didn't say that in my original post because OP seemed to be comparing schools from vastly different regions. If you're looking at 2(+) schools in the same region, then of course there will be differences in quality and USNews can sometimes serve as a proxy by which to judge that quality. However, once you're looking at regional schools money should definitely be a consideration and sometimes a lower school with a full ride will be better than a school with a higher rank because even the more highly ranked school might have employment stats not worth sticker price. So I suppose my opinion is that if you're
-comparing schools in different regions, it does not matter
-comparing schools within the same region, it depends

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tyro
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby tyro » Mon May 09, 2011 12:59 am

A couple of other examples of universities with traditionally elite statuses that are outside the T14 for law school are Vanderbilt, Washington & Lee, and Boston College. Research suggests that elite status has a statistically significant effect on employment outcomes, but the interesting thing here is that these schools are elite overall but are sometimes considered secondary elite in terms of their law schools. I still think the overall university status has some effect though because of reputation, but I could be wrong.

There are plenty of people out there who view highly selective/elite public universities such as UVA and UM as somehow lesser than their private counterparts such as Cornell.
Last edited by tyro on Mon May 09, 2011 1:15 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Lawquacious
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby Lawquacious » Mon May 09, 2011 1:01 am

Dany wrote:I didn't say that in my original post because OP seemed to be comparing schools from vastly different regions. If you're looking at 2(+) schools in the same region, then of course there will be differences in quality and USNews can sometimes serve as a proxy by which to judge that quality. However, once you're looking at regional schools money should definitely be a consideration and sometimes a lower school with a full ride will be better than a school with a higher rank because even the more highly ranked school might have employment stats not worth sticker price. So I suppose my opinion is that if you're
-comparing schools in different regions, it does not matter
-comparing schools within the same region, it depends



I think rankings could still matter when comparing (non-'national') schools in different regions if the applicant doesn't have a strong regional preference for a singular locality. But I do agree that when talking about regional schools that location is a big factor, and may well trump a decision that gives a lot of weight to rankings. And if you throw money (scholly) into the mix, then of course that acts a counterbalance in relation to rankings (just as T10 scholly could counterbalance YHS in some instances etc..).

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Verity
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby Verity » Mon May 09, 2011 1:07 am

If Matters = Able to secure gainful employment, then look up the rates for each school in each region, and compare.

If Matters = Great layman's prestige, then you don't need the USN ranks. Just ask your friends who are not lawyers/law students.

If Matters = Getting you laid by dropping X school's rank, don't count on it.



Basically, USN considers a number of factors, and should be used as a rough guide, rather than with laser-like precision.

So, not much.
Last edited by Verity on Mon May 09, 2011 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

shoeshine
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby shoeshine » Mon May 09, 2011 1:09 am

Verity wrote:If Matters = Getting you laid by dropping X school's rank, don't count on it.


I am pretty sure a Yale acceptance gets you laid.

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Verity
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby Verity » Mon May 09, 2011 1:12 am

shoeshine wrote:
Verity wrote:If Matters = Getting you laid by dropping X school's rank, don't count on it.


I am pretty sure a Yale acceptance gets you laid.



Yeah, because it has great lay prestige (no pun intended), not because telling someone "I go to the number 1 LS, herpy derpy..." is sexy.

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Patriot1208
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby Patriot1208 » Mon May 09, 2011 1:51 am

tyro wrote:A couple of other examples of universities with traditionally elite statuses that are outside the T14 for law school are Washington & Lee.

wut?

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tyro
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby tyro » Mon May 09, 2011 1:58 am

Patriot1208 wrote:
tyro wrote:A couple of other examples of universities with traditionally elite statuses that are outside the T14 for law school are Washington & Lee.

wut?


As mentioned earlier, based on Barron's Selectivity Index (which is a better predictor than avg. SAT score statistics when looking at regression.)
--ImageRemoved--

Some interesting findings here:
http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~cwinship/cf ... rev803.pdf
Last edited by tyro on Mon May 09, 2011 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Patriot1208
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby Patriot1208 » Mon May 09, 2011 2:02 am

tyro wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
tyro wrote:A couple of other examples of universities with traditionally elite statuses that are outside the T14 for law school are Washington & Lee.

wut?


As mentioned earlier, based on Barron's Selectivity Index which takes credence over avg. SAT score statistics when looking at regression.
--ImageRemoved--

I don't have the time right now to go through the Barron's index methodology but I have never heard anyone call Washington & Lee prestigious for anything.

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tyro
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby tyro » Mon May 09, 2011 2:18 am

Patriot1208 wrote:
tyro wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
tyro wrote:A couple of other examples of universities with traditionally elite statuses that are outside the T14 for law school are Washington & Lee.

wut?


As mentioned earlier, based on Barron's Selectivity Index which takes credence over avg. SAT score statistics when looking at regression.
--ImageRemoved--

I don't have the time right now to go through the Barron's index methodology but I have never heard anyone call Washington & Lee prestigious for anything.


Well not all of the schools have 'world class' status which is different than elite status. U of Chicago spent I think 50 million or something in an attempt to attain world class status, it's not easy. I mean, I know some people who go to Lawrence and others are like what is that? Some schools just have lower profiles than others. If you're saying you heard W&L sucked, I'm thinking you've been biased by TLS and W&L's law school. The point I'm trying to make is that if a university overall is recognized as having elite status, this can provide an extra pull when it comes to employment outcomes. If you don't believe me then look it up.

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YankeesFan
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby YankeesFan » Mon May 09, 2011 2:20 am

[quote="tyro"]If you don't believe me then look it up.

Wut?

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tyro
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby tyro » Mon May 09, 2011 2:42 am

YankeesFan wrote:
tyro wrote:If you don't believe me then look it up.

Wut?


Nevermind. It's a seperate topic really because the findings suggest the obvious effect of elite university attendance on income level, but this has to do with universities with that status but law schools that have slightly lower statuses compared to the status of the university as a whole. Would like to see research on this because it's just a hypothesis.

Do you get what I'm suggesting though?

adamtx11
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby adamtx11 » Mon May 09, 2011 2:18 pm

SMU vs. Emory, same scholarship at each school and I want to work in Houston

which would you attend?

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PinkCow
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Re: how much does US News Ranking Matter?

Postby PinkCow » Mon May 09, 2011 2:20 pm

adamtx11 wrote:SMU vs. Emory, same scholarship at each school and I want to work in Houston

which would you attend?


SMU easy




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