Is it even worth it now?

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swc65
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby swc65 » Sun May 01, 2011 7:31 pm

ahduth wrote:This is the win Bachmann video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg8kDG94kb8

edit: this one looks better, less Anderson Cooper going on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fG-x1K2eZo



I have no idea why you posted this. I am pretty sure John Quincy Adams worked tirelessly until he saw...... oh what? he died 20 years before that happened. Oh... never mind.

well surely there were other founding fathers who were even around when the 13th was.... oh wait what? the declara... was sign in.... oh.... and slavery wasn't abolished until 18... oh nevermind. go to commercial.

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Bartlebee06
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Bartlebee06 » Sun May 01, 2011 7:33 pm

ahduth wrote:
Flips88 wrote:
Bartlebee06 wrote:Im sorry but to me Obama is no different than Bush and I dont want him to have a 4th term now.

Ugh. Bush would've never passed a health care bill. Bush would've never ordered the DOJ to stop defending DOMA. Bush would've never signed the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act. Bush would've never extended federal benefits to same sex partners. Bush would've continued the ban on aid to clinics that perform abortions world wide. Bush wouldn't have allowed embryonic stem cell research.

If you think Obama == Bush, then you are trying to make it so instead of looking at facts


Yeah, this Obama = Bush argument belies an extremely narrow view of what is relevant in politics. Has Obama managed to do everything he claimed he would do? No. Has he passed another Medicare Part D boondoggle? No.


If Obamacare isnt a boondogle when it hits I will kiss you feet my friend but I fear it will be far worse. Pelosi- "We have to pass the bill so we can se what is in it.

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Flips88
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Flips88 » Sun May 01, 2011 7:34 pm

Bartlebee06 wrote:
ahduth wrote:
Flips88 wrote:
Bartlebee06 wrote:Im sorry but to me Obama is no different than Bush and I dont want him to have a 4th term now.

Ugh. Bush would've never passed a health care bill. Bush would've never ordered the DOJ to stop defending DOMA. Bush would've never signed the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act. Bush would've never extended federal benefits to same sex partners. Bush would've continued the ban on aid to clinics that perform abortions world wide. Bush wouldn't have allowed embryonic stem cell research.

If you think Obama == Bush, then you are trying to make it so instead of looking at facts


Yeah, this Obama = Bush argument belies an extremely narrow view of what is relevant in politics. Has Obama managed to do everything he claimed he would do? No. Has he passed another Medicare Part D boondoggle? No.


If Obamacare isnt a boondogle when it hits I will kiss you feet my friend but I fear it will be far worse. Pelosi- "We have to pass the bill so we can se what is in it.

Tell me what you think is in the health care bill.

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Bartlebee06
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Bartlebee06 » Sun May 01, 2011 7:35 pm

swc65 wrote:
ahduth wrote:This is the win Bachmann video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg8kDG94kb8

edit: this one looks better, less Anderson Cooper going on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fG-x1K2eZo



I have no idea why you posted this. I am pretty sure John Quincy Adams worked tirelessly until he saw...... oh what? he died 20 years before that happened. Oh... never mind.

well surely there were other founding fathers who were even around when the 13th was.... oh wait what? the declara... was sign in.... oh.... and slavery wasn't abolished until 18... oh nevermind. go to commercial.


Again, the founders kept the country together because they feared if they hadnt, slavery would never end.

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Flips88
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Flips88 » Sun May 01, 2011 7:37 pm

Bartlebee06 wrote:
swc65 wrote:
ahduth wrote:This is the win Bachmann video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg8kDG94kb8

edit: this one looks better, less Anderson Cooper going on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fG-x1K2eZo



I have no idea why you posted this. I am pretty sure John Quincy Adams worked tirelessly until he saw...... oh what? he died 20 years before that happened. Oh... never mind.

well surely there were other founding fathers who were even around when the 13th was.... oh wait what? the declara... was sign in.... oh.... and slavery wasn't abolished until 18... oh nevermind. go to commercial.


Again, the founders kept the country together because they feared if they hadnt, slavery would never end.

lolwut?

aliarrow
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby aliarrow » Sun May 01, 2011 7:39 pm

Bartlebee06 wrote:
swc65 wrote:
ahduth wrote:This is the win Bachmann video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg8kDG94kb8

edit: this one looks better, less Anderson Cooper going on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fG-x1K2eZo



I have no idea why you posted this. I am pretty sure John Quincy Adams worked tirelessly until he saw...... oh what? he died 20 years before that happened. Oh... never mind.

well surely there were other founding fathers who were even around when the 13th was.... oh wait what? the declara... was sign in.... oh.... and slavery wasn't abolished until 18... oh nevermind. go to commercial.



Again, the founders kept the country together because they feared if they hadnt, slavery would never end.


I'd hardly call what happens almost 100 years after the founding anything that has to do with the founders.
Also,
lolwut?
Last edited by aliarrow on Sun May 01, 2011 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kwais
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby kwais » Sun May 01, 2011 7:40 pm

Bartlebee06 wrote:
swc65 wrote:
ahduth wrote:This is the win Bachmann video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg8kDG94kb8

edit: this one looks better, less Anderson Cooper going on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fG-x1K2eZo



I have no idea why you posted this. I am pretty sure John Quincy Adams worked tirelessly until he saw...... oh what? he died 20 years before that happened. Oh... never mind.

well surely there were other founding fathers who were even around when the 13th was.... oh wait what? the declara... was sign in.... oh.... and slavery wasn't abolished until 18... oh nevermind. go to commercial.


Again, the founders kept the country together because they feared if they hadnt, slavery would never end.


this is an outrageous cause and effect you have constructed here. This is WHY they founded this country? I promise you will still be an american once you decide it is alright to criticize and examine our founding fathers. What books are you reading?

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ahduth
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby ahduth » Sun May 01, 2011 7:40 pm

Flips88 wrote:
Bartlebee06 wrote:
swc65 wrote:
ahduth wrote:This is the win Bachmann video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg8kDG94kb8

edit: this one looks better, less Anderson Cooper going on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fG-x1K2eZo



I have no idea why you posted this. I am pretty sure John Quincy Adams worked tirelessly until he saw...... oh what? he died 20 years before that happened. Oh... never mind.

well surely there were other founding fathers who were even around when the 13th was.... oh wait what? the declara... was sign in.... oh.... and slavery wasn't abolished until 18... oh nevermind. go to commercial.


Again, the founders kept the country together because they feared if they hadnt, slavery would never end.

lolwut?


Well... the reasons why the US went to war against the Confederacy is open to debate. I don't think it was an aching liberal need to free the slaves however.

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Bartlebee06
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Bartlebee06 » Sun May 01, 2011 7:41 pm

No one who voted for it read it. I bet the Insurance companies know whats in it considering theyre stock went up 12% after it was signed into law.
--LinkRemoved--

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Flips88
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Flips88 » Sun May 01, 2011 7:41 pm

aduth wrote:
Flips88 wrote:lolwut?


Well... the reasons why the US went to war against the Confederacy is open to debate. I don't think it was an aching liberal need to free the slaves however.

There was no discussion about the Civil War. He said the founders.
Last edited by Flips88 on Sun May 01, 2011 7:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.

aliarrow
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby aliarrow » Sun May 01, 2011 7:42 pm

ahduth wrote:Well... the reasons why the US went to war against the Confederacy is open to debate. I don't think it was an aching liberal need to free the slaves however.


Lincoln didn't even give two shits about the slaves

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ahduth
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby ahduth » Sun May 01, 2011 7:42 pm

Flips88 wrote:There was no discussion about the Civil War. He said the founders.


I'm just trying to keep it moving in one direction. Bachmann fucked this one up, not me.

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Flips88
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Flips88 » Sun May 01, 2011 7:43 pm

Bartlebee06 wrote:No one who voted for it read it. I bet the Insurance companies know whats in it considering theyre stock went up 12% after it was signed into law.
--LinkRemoved--

So you don't actually know what's in it, do you?

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ahduth
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby ahduth » Sun May 01, 2011 7:44 pm

Flips88 wrote:
Bartlebee06 wrote:No one who voted for it read it. I bet the Insurance companies know whats in it considering theyre stock went up 12% after it was signed into law.
--LinkRemoved--

So you don't actually know what's in it, do you?


It was a great deal for the insurance companies, it handed them a ton of people who were now obligated to become customers. Of course their stock went up.

edit: And that was the deal. The administration agreed that they would not make the insurance companies insolvent by disallowing "pre-existing condition" clauses without handing them a bunch of customers.
Last edited by ahduth on Sun May 01, 2011 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bartlebee06
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Bartlebee06 » Sun May 01, 2011 7:44 pm

kwais wrote:
Bartlebee06 wrote:
swc65 wrote:
ahduth wrote:This is the win Bachmann video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg8kDG94kb8

edit: this one looks better, less Anderson Cooper going on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fG-x1K2eZo



I have no idea why you posted this. I am pretty sure John Quincy Adams worked tirelessly until he saw...... oh what? he died 20 years before that happened. Oh... never mind.

well surely there were other founding fathers who were even around when the 13th was.... oh wait what? the declara... was sign in.... oh.... and slavery wasn't abolished until 18... oh nevermind. go to commercial.


Again, the founders kept the country together because they feared if they hadnt, slavery would never end.


this is an outrageous cause and effect you have constructed here. This is WHY they founded this country? I promise you will still be an american once you decide it is alright to criticize and examine our founding fathers. What books are you reading?


I know its OK to criticize the founders and everyone else who was alive at the time for their lack of evolution. I simply think they set the stage for advancement.

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Flips88
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Flips88 » Sun May 01, 2011 7:44 pm

aliarrow wrote:
ahduth wrote:Well... the reasons why the US went to war against the Confederacy is open to debate. I don't think it was an aching liberal need to free the slaves however.


Lincoln didn't even give two shits about the slaves

I mean, he was morally opposed to slavery, but he has the famous quote that if he could save the union without freeing any slaves then he would or if he could save the union by freeing all slaves then he would.

aliarrow
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby aliarrow » Sun May 01, 2011 7:45 pm

Bartlebee06 wrote:I know its OK to criticize the founders and everyone else who was alive at the time for their lack of evolution. I simply think they set the stage for advancement.


So then why would you want to remain stagnant instead of continuous advancement?

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ahduth
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby ahduth » Sun May 01, 2011 7:47 pm

aliarrow wrote:
Bartlebee06 wrote:I know its OK to criticize the founders and everyone else who was alive at the time for their lack of evolution. I simply think they set the stage for advancement.


So then why would you want to remain stagnant instead of continuous advancement?


This. A million times this. Should we be arguing about originialist judicial philosophy?

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Flips88
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Flips88 » Sun May 01, 2011 7:49 pm

ahduth wrote:
aliarrow wrote:
Bartlebee06 wrote:I know its OK to criticize the founders and everyone else who was alive at the time for their lack of evolution. I simply think they set the stage for advancement.


So then why would you want to remain stagnant instead of continuous advancement?


This. A million times this. Should we be arguing about originialist judicial philosophy?

Lol @ people who think the constitution is not a living document in need of interpretation resulting from society's advancement

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Bartlebee06
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Bartlebee06 » Sun May 01, 2011 7:53 pm

aliarrow wrote:
ahduth wrote:Well... the reasons why the US went to war against the Confederacy is open to debate. I don't think it was an aching liberal need to free the slaves however.


Lincoln didn't even give two shits about the slaves


Wrong. Slavery was rampant durring his time and this was so throughout the world. It bothered him though. He was raised to think of slaves as less than human but he knew this was wrong.

1855: AL wrote to Joshua Speed, a slave-owning friend.“I confess I hate to see the poor creatures hunted down, and caught, and carried back to their stripes, and unrewarded toils; but I bite my lip and keep quiet… In 1841 you and I had together a tedious low-water trip, on a Steam Boat from Louisville to St. Louis. You may remember, as I well do, that from Louisville to the mouth of the Ohio there were, on board, ten or a dozen slaves, shackled together with irons. That sight was a continual torment to me; and I see something like it every time I touch the Ohio (River), or any other slave-border.It is hardly fair for you to assume, that I have no interest in a thing which has, and continually exercises, the power of making me miserable.”(Lincoln, 1953, v2, p 320)

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Flips88
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Flips88 » Sun May 01, 2011 7:54 pm

Flips88 wrote:
Bartlebee06 wrote:No one who voted for it read it. I bet the Insurance companies know whats in it considering theyre stock went up 12% after it was signed into law.
--LinkRemoved--

So you don't actually know what's in it, do you?

^ahem.

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Bartlebee06
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Bartlebee06 » Sun May 01, 2011 7:58 pm

Flips88 wrote:
ahduth wrote:
aliarrow wrote:
Bartlebee06 wrote:I know its OK to criticize the founders and everyone else who was alive at the time for their lack of evolution. I simply think they set the stage for advancement.


So then why would you want to remain stagnant instead of continuous advancement?


This. A million times this. Should we be arguing about originialist judicial philosophy?

Lol @ people who think the constitution is not a living document in need of interpretation resulting from society's advancement


A living breathing document. Well that my friend means it can one day die. Its the same reason for certain unalienable rights endowed by god. If your rights are given to you by the government instead of your god (whoever that may be) then the govt. can take them away.
If everything is open for interpretation then lets just have true democracy which equals mob-rule.

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Bartlebee06
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Bartlebee06 » Sun May 01, 2011 8:00 pm

Flips88 wrote:
Flips88 wrote:
Bartlebee06 wrote:No one who voted for it read it. I bet the Insurance companies know whats in it considering theyre stock went up 12% after it was signed into law.
--LinkRemoved--

So you don't actually know what's in it, do you?

^ahem.


Yes, and I know about the accounting tricks they used too. And I know their intentions to use this law to usher sigle payer. They were quite open about it.

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ahduth
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby ahduth » Sun May 01, 2011 8:01 pm

Bartlebee06 wrote:A living breathing document. Well that my friend means it can one day die. Its the same reason for certain unalienable rights endowed by god. If your rights are given to you by the government instead of your god (whoever that may be) then the govt. can take them away.
If everything is open for interpretation then lets just have true democracy which equals mob-rule.


Sorry dude, I have to take exception to that. If you and your crazies don't have room for my atheism, sorry. We're going to shove government run medicine down your throat and you're going to enjoy it.

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kwais
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby kwais » Sun May 01, 2011 8:02 pm

Bartlebee06 wrote:A living breathing document. Well that my friend means it can one day die. Its the same reason for certain unalienable rights endowed by god. If your rights are given to you by the government instead of your god (whoever that may be) then the govt. can take them away.
If everything is open for interpretation then lets just have true democracy which equals mob-rule.


nope




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