Is it even worth it now?

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rostovru
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Is it even worth it now?

Postby rostovru » Sun May 01, 2011 3:32 am

Question: Is law school even worth it now?

While we all know the economy is in shambles, the precedent for outsourcing legal work to cheap firms abroad seems nascent. Will this trend grow? Will there continue to be little demand for lawyers - at least well-paid ones? Will it continue when, or if, the economy heals?

If so, where does that that leave the majority of us who are investing or in the process of investing significant sums of money into a legal education?

What are your reasons for continuing your legal aspirations, and has anyone actually decided against lawyering given the situation?

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Knock
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Knock » Sun May 01, 2011 3:33 am

rostovru wrote:Question: Is law school even worth it now?

While we all know the economy is in shambles, the precedent for outsourcing legal work to cheap firms abroad seems nascent. Will this trend grow? Will there continue to be little demand for lawyers - at least well-paid ones? Will it continue when, or if, the economy heals?

If so, where does that that leave the majority of us who are investing or in the process of investing significant sums of money into a legal education?

What are your reasons for continuing your legal aspirations, and has anyone actually decided against lawyering given the situation?


It depends.

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powerlawyer06
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby powerlawyer06 » Sun May 01, 2011 3:39 am

I am not sure...

I would only go into debt for a T14 ITE and there are still no guarantees even there.
However I think the future is much more bright than someone going into debt to get an MD right now (see Socialized Medicine).

Edited.
Last edited by powerlawyer06 on Sun May 01, 2011 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Veyron
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Veyron » Sun May 01, 2011 3:40 am

ABANDON ALL HOPE YE WHO ENTER HERE

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Hannibal
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Hannibal » Sun May 01, 2011 3:41 am

knock wrote:It depends.


TCR

powerlawyer06 wrote:I am not sure...

I would only go T14 ITE and there are still no guarantees even there.
However I think the future is much more bright than someone going into debt to get an MD right now (see Socialized Medicine).


lol

rostovru
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby rostovru » Sun May 01, 2011 4:04 am

Aren't NW and UVA grads having a hard time getting anything that pays these days?

What about those who, G-d forbid, ended up at GW, UCLA or Fordham? What will it take for them to find themselves?

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Veyron
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Veyron » Sun May 01, 2011 4:15 am

rostovru wrote:Aren't NW and UVA grads having a hard time getting anything that pays these days?

What about those who, G-d forbid, ended up at GW, UCLA or Fordham? What will it take for them to find themselves?


Hard time finding ANYTHING that pays, even I wouldn't go that far (although some people wind up in 20/hr doc review).

GW, UCLA, and Fordham are fucked right now, but you already knew that.

flcath
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby flcath » Sun May 01, 2011 4:42 am

Probably not.

A better question is whether the situation will ever get better. Hopefully there are enough people who care about the legal industry (formerly a profession) that it can be resurrected once the bottom drops out entirely.

The other direction things could go is that the University of Phoenix online gets the green light from the ABA to pass out JDs by the thousand, the degree becomes a complete liability for those who possess it (like a criminal record, but indicating lack of talent instead of lack of morals), and prestigious universities stop having law schools in order to avoid the stigma.

rostovru
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby rostovru » Sun May 01, 2011 4:58 am

flcath wrote:The other direction things could go is that the University of Phoenix online gets the green light from the ABA to pass out JDs by the thousand, the degree becomes a complete liability for those who possess it (like a criminal record, but indicating lack of talent instead of lack of morals), and prestigious universities stop having law schools in order to avoid the stigma.


Agreed. This coming from a journalist.... I planned to make a career change a year ago from journalism - also in bleak straits - and wonder if opening a luxury lemonade stand may prove more intelligent over the long run than pursuing law.

I hate to be a pessimist, but as much as I'm drawn to the liveliness of legal - just look at how much fun all of us are on this forum - discussion/debate seems to no longer pay the bills. Unless I'm missing something.

And I geniunely hope that I am.

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Tanicius
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Tanicius » Sun May 01, 2011 5:10 am

powerlawyer06 wrote:I am not sure...

I would only go into debt for a T14 ITE and there are still no guarantees even there.
However I think the future is much more bright than someone going into debt to get an MD right now (see Socialized Medicine).

Edited.



Image

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quickquestionthanks
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby quickquestionthanks » Sun May 01, 2011 6:07 am

These threads are stupid.

Step 1: Are you good at analytical thinking?
Step 2: Are you a hard worker?
Step 3: Are you easy to talk to?

Then you will be fine.

rostovru
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby rostovru » Sun May 01, 2011 6:15 am

quickquestionthanks wrote:These threads are stupid.


Statistics show they aren't.

quickquestionthanks wrote: Step 1: Are you good at analytical thinking?
Step 2: Are you a hard worker?
Step 3: Are you easy to talk to?

Then you will be fine.


So here's the answer: Be a good analytical thinker (most of us who have made this far are at least half that), a hard worker (totally), and easy to talk to (at times)? That's all?

I think everyone is relieved if this is all it takes.

deadhipsters
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby deadhipsters » Sun May 01, 2011 8:59 am

Tanicius wrote:
powerlawyer06 wrote:I am not sure...

I would only go into debt for a T14 ITE and there are still no guarantees even there.
However I think the future is much more bright than someone going into debt to get an MD right now (see Socialized Medicine).

Edited.



Image


Ha. Damn you Obama! Eroding the wealth of some of the worlds best compensated doctors!

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powerlawyer06
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby powerlawyer06 » Sun May 01, 2011 2:15 pm

Tanicius wrote:
powerlawyer06 wrote:I am not sure...

I would only go into debt for a T14 ITE and there are still no guarantees even there.
However I think the future is much more bright than someone going into debt to get an MD right now (see Socialized Medicine).

Edited.



Image


Nope I am not kidding. At best the future is uncertain. Ask any primary care physician what Medicare has done to their income over the past twenty years. Basically medicare held the amount they would pay for simple procedures steady or raised them less than inflation over this time period. The end result is the primary care physicians make less or the same than they did in the early 90s. This is why everyone wants to specialize in med school. Specialists and surgeons are the only ones who are making a good amount of money. Socialized medicine (in one form or another) will give the government the power to negotiate lower fees on every procedure. So even specialist's real income will go down yet there has been nothing done to curtail the costs of practicing medicine in America (i.e. Tort reform, lower med school education costs). We would be one of the only major countries to adopt a socialized medical system but not subsidize the cost of medical school. I personally would not go into debt to be an MD until these uncertanties are worked out.

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Hannibal
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Hannibal » Sun May 01, 2011 2:18 pm

General care practitioners make over 300k to start. And there are more positions than can be filled.

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powerlawyer06
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby powerlawyer06 » Sun May 01, 2011 2:30 pm

Hannibal wrote:General care practitioners make over 300k to start. And there are more positions than can be filled.

Is this a joke? Do you post stuff without having any prior knowledge?

http://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/news ... ctors-paid

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/200 ... tage_N.htm
Last edited by powerlawyer06 on Sun May 01, 2011 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tanicius
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Tanicius » Sun May 01, 2011 2:35 pm

powerlawyer06 wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
powerlawyer06 wrote:I am not sure...

I would only go into debt for a T14 ITE and there are still no guarantees even there.
However I think the future is much more bright than someone going into debt to get an MD right now (see Socialized Medicine).

Edited.



Image


Nope I am not kidding. At best the future is uncertain. Ask any primary care physician what Medicare has done to their income over the past twenty years. Basically medicare held the amount they would pay for simple procedures steady or raised them less than inflation over this time period. The end result is the primary care physicians make less or the same than they did in the early 90s. This is why everyone wants to specialize in med school. Specialists and surgeons are the only ones who are making a good amount of money. Socialized medicine (in one form or another) will give the government the power to negotiate lower fees on every procedure. So even specialist's real income will go down yet there has been nothing done to curtail the costs of practicing medicine in America (i.e. Tort reform, lower med school education costs). We would be one of the only major countries to adopt a socialized medical system but not subsidize the cost of medical school. I personally would not go into debt to be an MD until these uncertanties are worked out.



Your original suggestion was that med grads (if one can get into med school) will have potentially worse prospects than most law grads. That's ridiculous, socialized medicine or not. It also remains ridiculous entirely regardless of whether or not we end up putting salary caps on physicians and/or work out a deal to pay back med student loans.
Last edited by Tanicius on Sun May 01, 2011 2:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Deuce
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Deuce » Sun May 01, 2011 2:37 pm

had to look up "nascent"

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badwithpseudonyms
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby badwithpseudonyms » Sun May 01, 2011 2:41 pm

Image

aliarrow
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby aliarrow » Sun May 01, 2011 2:42 pm

Image

dissonance1848
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby dissonance1848 » Sun May 01, 2011 2:55 pm

Why the fuck doesn't the AMA have an anti-trust suit from the federal government on its ass for the shortage of doctors? Given that medicine is way more inelastic in demand than legal services.

deadhipsters
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby deadhipsters » Sun May 01, 2011 2:58 pm

powerlawyer06 wrote:
Hannibal wrote:General care practitioners make over 300k to start. And there are more positions than can be filled.

Is this a joke? Do you post stuff without having any prior knowledge?

http://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/news ... ctors-paid

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/200 ... tage_N.htm


Give me a break. American doctors are paid better than doctors in almost any other country. Only difference is the student debt that doctors face in the States (sound familiar). Also, there is sense of entitlement by doctors in America, and while GP's make relatively little compared to some specialists, they are still unbelievably well compensated. Here is a an article from a real newspaper:

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/ ... ries-make/

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Hannibal
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby Hannibal » Sun May 01, 2011 3:05 pm

powerlawyer06 wrote:
Hannibal wrote:General care practitioners make over 300k to start. And there are more positions than can be filled.

Is this a joke? Do you post stuff without having any prior knowledge?

http://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/news ... ctors-paid

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/200 ... tage_N.htm


I read that the starting salary of practitioners was 350k, and even that couldn't pull students away from specialization. I can't find the article, it may have been significantly less. It was a while ago.

Even if it was, your original post is still flat out wrong even by your own evidence.

dissonance1848
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby dissonance1848 » Sun May 01, 2011 3:13 pm

Fuck, from reading that economix post, the obvious career choice is to move to Australia, get citizenship, pay next to nothing for med school, and make more as a specialist than in the US in a country where your cash goes farther. Sounds like a win.

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TUP
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Re: Is it even worth it now?

Postby TUP » Sun May 01, 2011 3:13 pm

Hannibal wrote:
powerlawyer06 wrote:
Hannibal wrote:General care practitioners make over 300k to start. And there are more positions than can be filled.

Is this a joke? Do you post stuff without having any prior knowledge?

http://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/news ... ctors-paid

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/200 ... tage_N.htm


I read that the starting salary of practitioners was 350k, and even that couldn't pull students away from specialization. I can't find the article, it may have been significantly less. It was a while ago.

Even if it was, your original post is still flat out wrong even by your own evidence.


LOL no ... PCPs are hurting relative to specialists. If you think the LSAT is bad, just imagine taking USMLE step 1 after spending almost a decade and taking $200k+ in loans to become a specialist.




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