JD credits towards Phd? Forum

mattviphky · Post by **mattviphky** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:49 pm

I was browsing William and Mary's history website, when I noticed their policies on transferring credits. The site said it would take a certain amount of credits from a masters program, but that only a few credits from a JD could be applied to a history PhD. I was just curious if there are schools out there that will let you transfer a healthy number of credits after law school into a PhD program? I'm thinking that there must be programs out there that do this since WM was so explicit on its site about taking only a certain amount. Just curious. I do know of schools that will let you transfer a huge amount of credits towards a Poly Sci phd, but I wasn't certain about history.

voice of reason · Post by **voice of reason** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:02 pm

I doubt many good history PhD programs are going to allow a lot of transfer credit from a JD, because law schools do not teach people to be history scholars.

Bildungsroman · Post by **Bildungsroman** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:04 pm

Why would you go to law school and then get a PhD afterwards?

JFo · Post by **JFo** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:31 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:Why would you go to law school and then get a PhD afterwards?

Because I you hate ~~myself~~ yourself.

MrPapagiorgio · Post by **MrPapagiorgio** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:36 pm

Listen brah. A JD is not a backdoor entrance into admission into another degree program. If you want a JD, go to law school. If you want an MBA, work for a few years and go to a graduate business school. If you want a PhD, get involved with some research and go to graduate school.

In short, go to the program that will end with the degree that you want.

dr123 · Post by **dr123** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:43 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:Why would you go to law school and then get a PhD afterwards?

A lot of Professors do this actually

Bildungsroman · Post by **Bildungsroman** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:57 pm

dr123 wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:Why would you go to law school and then get a PhD afterwards?
A lot of Professors do this actually

I think you mean "a very small number of professors do this". To test this theory, I just went through the Cornell permanent faculty and only 6 out of 43 professors went this route (and several of those were clearly joint degree programs with the PhD pursued concurrently). I just don't see why someone would go into law school thinking "maybe I'll get a PhD after this". I don't understand the appeal of letting your law school debt build more interest. A joint JD/PhD program would be different, but this seems like a situation where you should sit down and decide your career goals right now.

ze2151 · Post by **ze2151** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:58 pm

Hey Mr. Papagiorgio, stick to winning cars in Vegas and leave the JD/Phd advice at the door. Because the comment you made is essentially dead wrong, at least in my case. OP, pm me for details since this is an involved conversation, and it's not really of general interest on the board probably, since JD/Phds are odd birds.

No hard feelings, Nick, I love that movie.

MrPapagiorgio · Post by **MrPapagiorgio** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:00 pm

voice of reason wrote:Law schools do not teach people to ~~be history scholars~~do anything.

FTFY

mattviphky · Post by **mattviphky** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:00 pm

I was just curious how it worked. I saw that WM phd program accepted limited credits, and they are the highest ranked colonial history program. I wasn't even aware that this type of deal went on, so I was just curious if anyone knew more than I did. Again, I was just curious, and I'm definitely not trying to go to law school only to enroll in a phd program afterward. But I do enjoy history, and maybe when I'm a retired ODB I can look into this

Bildungsroman · Post by **Bildungsroman** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:01 pm

MrPapagiorgio wrote:Listen brah. A JD is not a backdoor entrance into admission into another degree program. If you want a JD, go to law school. If you want an MBA, work for a few years and go to a graduate business school. If you want a PhD, get involved with some research and go to graduate school.

In short, go to the program that will end with the degree that you want.

ze2151 wrote:Hey Mr. Papagiorgio, stick to winning cars in Vegas and leave the JD/Phd advice at the door. Because the comment you made is essentially dead wrong, at least in my case.

I'm very interested to hear more about this, especially since this response came from a 1L who, it seems, would not have a lot of experience with pursuing another degree after finishing law school.

ze2151 · Post by **ze2151** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:07 pm

The short story-
I'm doing a JD/Phd at Emory. The degrees are pursued concurrently and shave about a year and a half off the time it would take to pursue the degrees consecutively. But I know I wouldn't have gotten into the Phd without being in the law school here. Elite Phd programs are just that tough to get into. So Papagiorgio's comment isn't accurate, at least in my case. Being in the law school absolutely assisted me in getting accepted in Phd.

I'm a little confused by your comment, Bildungsroman. What does my 1L status (for 24 more hours!) have to do w/ it, and why would I not be the type that would want to pursue JD/Phd?

Bildungsroman · Post by **Bildungsroman** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:31 am

ze2151 wrote:The short story-
I'm doing a JD/Phd at Emory. The degrees are pursued concurrently and shave about a year and a half off the time it would take to pursue the degrees consecutively. But I know I wouldn't have gotten into the Phd without being in the law school here. Elite Phd programs are just that tough to get into. So Papagiorgio's comment isn't accurate, at least in my case. Being in the law school absolutely assisted me in getting accepted in Phd.

I'm a little confused by your comment, Bildungsroman. What does my 1L status (for 24 more hours!) have to do w/ it, and why would I not be the type that would want to pursue JD/Phd?

Well, the OP's question was specifically about pursuing a PhD after law school, so your response that your personal experience would disagree was a bit of a non-sequitur. I think a joint JD/PhD is a totally different animal from finishing a JD and then deciding to pursue a PhD.

ze2151 · Post by **ze2151** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:41 am

But I was responding specifically to Papagiorgio's comment that JD isn't a "backdoor entry into Phd." Is that a non-sequitur?

snichols16 · Post by **snichols16** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:16 am

I just finished my PhD at a top 5 history program and am starting my JD this fall. I can assure you that none of the top PhD history programs would allow you to "transfer" credits. For example: my PhD program was a terminal PhD; you cannot apply for just a masters (though you do get a masters along the way). During your first two years of course work, you have to take a minimum number of credits to qualify to advanced to candidacy. If you come in an already have a masters, they only excuse you from one one class worth of credits.

You might be able to do the same with a JD, but if you're in a PhD program, you take these classes to help give you the background needed to begin your research and to meet the professors who are going to help you along the way. You don't want to try and get out of having to do anything (except for maybe language exams, etc).

danquayle · Post by **danquayle** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:33 pm

MrPapagiorgio wrote:Listen brah. A JD is not a backdoor entrance into admission into another degree program. If you want a JD, go to law school. If you want an MBA, work for a few years and go to a graduate business school. If you want a PhD, get involved with some research and go to graduate school.

In short, go to the program that will end with the degree that you want.

I can't speak to a PHD, but I know having a JD was a major asset in my b-school admissions. But, to be fair, that was only probably because it permitted me to pick up good transactional experience with a company. It probably wouldn't have helped, and maybe hurt, were I doing litigation work at a law firm.

danquayle · Post by **danquayle** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:38 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
dr123 wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:Why would you go to law school and then get a PhD afterwards?
A lot of Professors do this actually
I think you mean "a very small number of professors do this". To test this theory, I just went through the Cornell permanent faculty and only 6 out of 43 professors went this route (and several of those were clearly joint degree programs with the PhD pursued concurrently). I just don't see why someone would go into law school thinking "maybe I'll get a PhD after this". I don't understand the appeal of letting your law school debt build more interest. A joint JD/PhD program would be different, but this seems like a situation where you should sit down and decide your career goals right now.

I had a few professors who got their PHD after their JD. They said they did so to bolster their credentials because they simply wanted to teach. Similar to how some professors use a Yale LLM. One guy in particular used a phd to get into my school's history department, then backdoored his way into teaching law. But this probably only works if the phd is itself prestigious. (His was). And if you can get into a solid phd program to begin with, why bother with the JD?

AreJay711 · Post by **AreJay711** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:50 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
ze2151 wrote:The short story-
I'm doing a JD/Phd at Emory. The degrees are pursued concurrently and shave about a year and a half off the time it would take to pursue the degrees consecutively. But I know I wouldn't have gotten into the Phd without being in the law school here. Elite Phd programs are just that tough to get into. So Papagiorgio's comment isn't accurate, at least in my case. Being in the law school absolutely assisted me in getting accepted in Phd.

I'm a little confused by your comment, Bildungsroman. What does my 1L status (for 24 more hours!) have to do w/ it, and why would I not be the type that would want to pursue JD/Phd?
Well, the OP's question was specifically about pursuing a PhD after law school, so your response that your personal experience would disagree was a bit of a non-sequitur. I think a joint JD/PhD is a totally different animal from finishing a JD and then deciding to pursue a PhD.

It depends on the circumastances. I could see myself going for a PhD if I hated being a lawyer. It would be an epic wast of time and money (the JD) but ppl misjudge shit all the time. Except for schools and programs that give you the JD for free with academic placement it isn't a terrible idea to at lest consider.

ResolutePear · Post by **ResolutePear** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:55 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:Why would you go to law school and then get a PhD afterwards?

blink · Post by **blink** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:17 am

snichols16 wrote:I just finished my PhD at a top 5 history program and am starting my JD this fall. I can assure you that none of the top PhD history programs would allow you to "transfer" credits. For example: my PhD program was a terminal PhD; you cannot apply for just a masters (though you do get a masters along the way). During your first two years of course work, you have to take a minimum number of credits to qualify to advanced to candidacy. If you come in an already have a masters, they only excuse you from one one class worth of credits.

You might be able to do the same with a JD, but if you're in a PhD program, you take these classes to help give you the background needed to begin your research and to meet the professors who are going to help you along the way. You don't want to try and get out of having to do anything (except for maybe language exams, etc).

Why didn't you do them at the same time? You must not really be worried about wasting your time/money if you do these programs consecutively...

snichols16 · Post by **snichols16** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:25 am

blink wrote:
snichols16 wrote:I just finished my PhD at a top 5 history program and am starting my JD this fall. I can assure you that none of the top PhD history programs would allow you to "transfer" credits. For example: my PhD program was a terminal PhD; you cannot apply for just a masters (though you do get a masters along the way). During your first two years of course work, you have to take a minimum number of credits to qualify to advanced to candidacy. If you come in an already have a masters, they only excuse you from one one class worth of credits.

You might be able to do the same with a JD, but if you're in a PhD program, you take these classes to help give you the background needed to begin your research and to meet the professors who are going to help you along the way. You don't want to try and get out of having to do anything (except for maybe language exams, etc).
Why didn't you do them at the same time? You must not really be worried about wasting your time/money if you do these programs consecutively...

Just as you must not be worried about wasting your time being a troll!

blink · Post by **blink** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:13 pm

snichols16 wrote:
blink wrote:
snichols16 wrote:I just finished my PhD at a top 5 history program and am starting my JD this fall. I can assure you that none of the top PhD history programs would allow you to "transfer" credits. For example: my PhD program was a terminal PhD; you cannot apply for just a masters (though you do get a masters along the way). During your first two years of course work, you have to take a minimum number of credits to qualify to advanced to candidacy. If you come in an already have a masters, they only excuse you from one one class worth of credits.

You might be able to do the same with a JD, but if you're in a PhD program, you take these classes to help give you the background needed to begin your research and to meet the professors who are going to help you along the way. You don't want to try and get out of having to do anything (except for maybe language exams, etc).
Why didn't you do them at the same time? You must not really be worried about wasting your time/money if you do these programs consecutively...
Just as you must not be worried about wasting your time being a troll!

haha yeah, my ten seconds to comment on your inefficiency really compares well to the years wasted doing these programs consecutively. nice work.

Edit: really though, why didnt you do these concurrently?

AreJay711 · Post by **AreJay711** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:43 pm

blink wrote:
snichols16 wrote:
blink wrote:
snichols16 wrote:I just finished my PhD at a top 5 history program and am starting my JD this fall. I can assure you that none of the top PhD history programs would allow you to "transfer" credits. For example: my PhD program was a terminal PhD; you cannot apply for just a masters (though you do get a masters along the way). During your first two years of course work, you have to take a minimum number of credits to qualify to advanced to candidacy. If you come in an already have a masters, they only excuse you from one one class worth of credits.

You might be able to do the same with a JD, but if you're in a PhD program, you take these classes to help give you the background needed to begin your research and to meet the professors who are going to help you along the way. You don't want to try and get out of having to do anything (except for maybe language exams, etc).
Why didn't you do them at the same time? You must not really be worried about wasting your time/money if you do these programs consecutively...
Just as you must not be worried about wasting your time being a troll!
haha yeah, my ten seconds to comment on your inefficiency really compares well to the years wasted doing these programs consecutively. nice work.

Edit: really though, why didnt you do these concurrently?

You could probably come up with some possibilities if you thought about it. One big one is that some schools do not give you the JD free with a PhD so taking them concurrently would let interest accrue for several more years on the law school debt. Not fucking rocket science to come up with that possibility, bro.

unc0mm0n1 · Post by **unc0mm0n1** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:02 pm

danquayle wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:Listen brah. A JD is not a backdoor entrance into admission into another degree program. If you want a JD, go to law school. If you want an MBA, work for a few years and go to a graduate business school. If you want a PhD, get involved with some research and go to graduate school.

In short, go to the program that will end with the degree that you want.
I can't speak to a PHD, but I know having a JD was a major asset in my b-school admissions. But, to be fair, that was only probably because it permitted me to pick up good transactional experience with a company. It probably wouldn't have helped, and maybe hurt, were I doing litigation work at a law firm.

I really hope you're right I'm getting my b-school app together now. Prepping to take the GMAT in August. I have to apply by December to participate in the JD/MBA program. They say that the admissions process is completely separate but talking to some of the people from the school they might have a backdoor agreement. Did you do your JD/MBA concurrently?

blink · Post by **blink** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:27 pm

AreJay711 wrote:
You could probably come up with some possibilities if you thought about it. One big one is that some schools do not give you the JD free with a PhD so taking them concurrently would let interest accrue for several more years on the law school debt. Not fucking rocket science to come up with that possibility, bro.

I have an idea: limit your responses to things you actually know something about, eh bro?

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