Bare essentials for men's law school wardrobe? Forum

[crit_racer]

I've had really good luck with Nordstrom's house brand dress shirts. Unlike most other wrinkle free dress shirts, theirs aren't too itchy and are still pretty sharp looking. Of course, this is coming from someone who has to wear a dress shirt to work every day, so I appreciate wrinkle free. If you're just wearing dress shirts every few weeks for an interview or w/e, it might not be necessary.

Either way, I like Nordstroms a lot. Their staff always does a good job of helping out this fashion-challenged guy.

[zonto]

Try finding decent shirts when you need a 15 1/2 36/37...

[Renzo]

I've had really good luck with Nordstrom's house brand dress shirts. Unlike most other wrinkle free dress shirts, theirs aren't too itchy and are still pretty sharp looking. Of course, this is coming from someone who has to wear a dress shirt to work every day, so I appreciate wrinkle free. If you're just wearing dress shirts every few weeks for an interview or w/e, it might not be necessary.

Either way, I like Nordstroms a lot. Their staff always does a good job of helping out this fashion-challenged guy.

I think the Nordstroms shirts are the best around for the money. They beat the hell out Brooks Brothers at the same price point.

[YaSvoboden]

Try finding decent shirts when you need a 15 1/2 36/37...

Try Casual Male XL. I went to the one on like 6500 s. State and was able to custom order some shirts. I wear 18 39/40. Not quite as skinny, but a tough size to find. They also altered some other shirts I bought for $5 a piece so the body part actually fit, not sure if that can help with the neck though.

[aliarrow]

Whats the difference between Ralph and Lauren? I was looking at Dillards suits today and they only had Ralph

[Renzo]

Whats the difference between Ralph and Lauren? I was looking at Dillards suits today and they only had Ralph

If you are a boy, the Lauren label is a licensed brand not manufactured by Ralph Lauren. For girls it's also the entry-level label, but a genuine Ralph Lauren line (not just a licensed name).

The "RALPH" label hasn't been used in many many years; Ralph Lauren uses the Polo (for men), Blue Label, or Black Label brands now for non-couture, non-sports lines.

[zonto]

Try Casual Male XL. I went to the one on like 6500 s. State and was able to custom order some shirts. I wear 18 39/40. Not quite as skinny, but a tough size to find. They also altered some other shirts I bought for $5 a piece so the body part actually fit, not sure if that can help with the neck though.

Done and done. Nobody makes a neck size that small with sleeves that long. I have found one Land's End shirt and a bunch of out-of-stock Staffords at JCP...

[ahduth]

I guess I'm a snob. Men's Warehouse is gross. Go to Nordstrom's or somewhere and have them put you in a decent suit. You're spending 200 thousand dollars to go to school. Spend the extra money so you don't go to EIW interviews looking like you're straight out of college, even if you are.

edit: Also, Brooks Brothers suits are gross, they make you look like a dandy. No offense intended to anyone who relishes being a dandy.

Am I the only one who will be wearing black pinstripes to EIW? I'm of the opinion I get to do that, because I'm old. Maybe I just haven't owned a nice navy suit recently... I dunno. Personally I'm thinking if everyone is traipsing through there in navy suits, you're possibly better off cutting a different image. But again, I'm old so, I'll be different anyhow I suppose.

[lisjjen]

I guess I'm a snob. Men's Warehouse is gross. Go to Nordstrom's or somewhere and have them put you in a decent suit. You're spending 200 thousand dollars to go to school. Spend the extra money so you don't go to EIW interviews looking like you're straight out of college, even if you are.

I hate to sound like a snob too, but Men's Warehouse makes me think of what they wear in The Office.

[kalvano]

Saks Off Fifth is a great place to pick up nice suits for cheap. I got a Boss and Burberry for about $500 total at their 2-for-1 sale. Nordstrom Rack is good, too. Mens Wearhouse sucks. Pay a little extra for good quality stuff and it will last years.

Brooks Brothers slim fit, non-iron dress shirts are worth every penny when you realize that you have no clean shirts the night before and interview and you can just throw them in the wash and the dryer and they come out looking perfect.

[lisjjen]

Saks Off Fifth is a great place to pick up nice suits for cheap. I got a Boss and Burberry for about $500 total at their 2-for-1 sale. Nordstrom Rack is good, too. Mens Wearhouse sucks. Pay a little extra for good quality stuff and it will last years.

Brooks Brothers slim fit, non-iron dress shirts are worth every penny when you realize that you have no clean shirts the night before and interview and you can just throw them in the wash and the dryer and they come out looking perfect.

The problem is, Men's Warehouse really isn't that cheap. Nordstrom's Rack ftw, every day all day.

[Renzo]

Am I the only one who will be wearing black pinstripes to EIW?

Different isn't good. See, e.g., this at the 1:10 mark.

[kalvano]

Saks Off Fifth is a great place to pick up nice suits for cheap. I got a Boss and Burberry for about $500 total at their 2-for-1 sale. Nordstrom Rack is good, too. Mens Wearhouse sucks. Pay a little extra for good quality stuff and it will last years.

Brooks Brothers slim fit, non-iron dress shirts are worth every penny when you realize that you have no clean shirts the night before and interview and you can just throw them in the wash and the dryer and they come out looking perfect.

The problem is, Men's Warehouse really isn't that cheap. Nordstrom's Rack ftw, every day all day.

I've only been in once. It was dark and dingy, and generally unimpressive.

Sometimes shit is ridiculously overpriced for no reason. Men's suits rarely are. There's a damn good reason why a Hugo Boss / Burberry / Hickey Freeman costs $1200 and others costs $250.

[ahduth]

Am I the only one who will be wearing black pinstripes to EIW?

Different isn't good. See, e.g., this at the 1:10 mark.

Well, when I need to do some corporate thing that requires a suit, lately I've been wearing a black suit that has much darker pinstripes than that, and more of them (closer together). It's not nearly as flashy as that attorney's, it's consummately professional. I hear the message about being deferential and wearing navy, but I'm assuming firms that would reject me on that basis would already be rejecting me on the basis of my age.

I did have a nice dark charcoal thing, I want to say it was Hugo Boss, but I have no idea where it is now. Still bugs me, I left it in some hotel room or something at some point.

[kalvano]

Pinstripes can be OK, if they are tasteful and discrete. Whatever that guy was wearing in the video does not qualify.

[haveaniceday111]

has anyone tried http://www.indochino.com or any other online-ordered tailored places?

I'd be interested in hearing thoughts/opinions/experiences on that. They look pretty interesting though.

[fastforward]

I have refrained from posting on these haberdashery threads until now. But I continue to see, everywhere, violations of some basic rules that I haven't seen addressed elsewhere in these forums. I don't know anyone who attributes their landing a job in the legal field to their well-turned-out appearance. Still, sartorial mistakes can distract from your stellar professional credentials. The idea is to convey that you know and follow certain unspoken rules.

The tie --whatever knot -- should have the tip fall just at the bottom of the belt buckle when the man is standing straight. A four-in-hand is the easiest to master, and you will never go wrong with it. But the critical thing is the length, followed closely by symmetry of the knot. Practice, practice, practice. The tie always should be silk, in a conservative pattern such as a burgundy/navy/cream rep or foulard. A burgundy foulard will work with any conservative suit. Avoid a pocket square unless you know exactly what you are doing.

It should be second nature for a well-dressed man to unbutton the suit coat upon taking a seat, and to fasten one button upon rising. This is de rigueur courtroom and business meeting behavior, so attorneys interviewing you may unconsciously notice if you do not execute this maneuver with insouciance.

Belt and shoes should be fine quality leather (calfskin is always a good bet), and the belt should match the shoes in color. Socks should be silk blend or mercerized cotton in a dark color (no pattern until you're hired) to coordinate with suit color. These forums have many recommendations about brands of shoe. Men whose taste I trust tell me the Bostonian oxford is most comfortable, and their appearance never fails if you get the proper size and keep them treed in the closet. Need I mention spit-polish shine? DIY polish can produce an excellent result, but can be messy, so plan ahead. Once you own a pair of quality shoes, you should have a shoe brush and know how to use it. Be sure to get the shoes re-heeled when they wear, usually at the outside corners. Avoid fashion statements such as the Ari Gold square-toed slip-on.

For shirts, a solid white or ecru pinpoint oxford with a straight collar is always appropriate. Button-down and tab collars tend to bunch; spread collars look effete. If you might not have the time to get a shirt professionally laundered, have at least one high-quality no-iron shirt on hand. When you send your shirts out, ask for hangers (your other choice is folded), and heavy or medium starch. Absolutely imperative is that about 1/2 inch of cuff show past your suit coat at the wrist -- no more and no less (unless you are wearing a shirt with French cuffs and cuff links, in which case you should show cuff to just past the link; but your law school wardrobe does not call for cuff links). Wear a wife beater or v neck undershirt; a proper dress shirt will feel scratchy and if you are uncomfortable it will show in your bearing.

As for suits, until you need and can afford more wardrobe choices, stick to solids in very dark gray and navy. Brand does not matter so much as quality. As the posts above attest, price does not equal quality. There is a rich abundance of information on these forums about suit quality. Search these forums for a discussion of fused vs. canvassed suits. Get the best quality you can afford. Your suit should fit like a glove, which requires professional tailoring, so be sure to factor that into the cost. Avoid cuffs and pleats in the trousers. Wear your dress shoes to your fitting. A good tailor will be certain your trousers "break" perfectly over your shoes. Avoid a suit coat with no vent. For most men, a single vent is most flattering. A double vent is best only if you have a wide rear-end; avoid them otherwise.

I wish it could go without saying, but wardrobe maintenance is important. The scent of cigar on your suit from your cousin's wedding has not disappeared even though you no longer detect it. The pattern of your tie will not camouflage the minor drip from that errant salad dressing.

Once you have mastered the basics, you can experiment with, say, a pin stripe suit, braces (i.e. suspenders, which btw, should never match the tie), or a colorful paisley tie.

The idea is to avoid being judged for your wardrobe choices. Do everything well, and they'll have a good impression of you for reasons they might not be able to articulate. Do one thing wrong, and something they can't quite express may annoy them about you.

[lisjjen]

I have refrained from posting on these haberdashery threads until now. But I continue to see, everywhere, violations of some basic rules that I haven't seen addressed elsewhere in these forums. I don't know anyone who attributes their landing a job in the legal field to their well-turned-out appearance. Still, sartorial mistakes can distract from your stellar professional credentials. The idea is to convey that you know and follow certain unspoken rules.

The tie --whatever knot -- should have the tip fall just at the bottom of the belt buckle when the man is standing straight. A four-in-hand is the easiest to master, and you will never go wrong with it. But the critical thing is the length, followed closely by symmetry of the knot. Practice, practice, practice. The tie always should be silk, in a conservative pattern such as a burgundy/navy/cream rep or foulard. A burgundy foulard will work with any conservative suit. Avoid a pocket square unless you know exactly what you are doing.

It should be second nature for a well-dressed man to unbutton the suit coat upon taking a seat, and to fasten one button upon rising. This is de rigueur courtroom and business meeting behavior, so attorneys interviewing you may unconsciously notice if you do not execute this maneuver with insouciance.

Belt and shoes should be fine quality leather (calfskin is always a good bet), and the belt should match the shoes in color. Socks should be silk blend or mercerized cotton in a dark color (no pattern until you're hired) to coordinate with suit color. These forums have many recommendations about brands of shoe. Men whose taste I trust tell me the Bostonian oxford is most comfortable, and their appearance never fails if you get the proper size and keep them treed in the closet. Need I mention spit-polish shine? DIY polish can produce an excellent result, but can be messy, so plan ahead. Once you own a pair of quality shoes, you should have a shoe brush and know how to use it. Be sure to get the shoes re-heeled when they wear, usually at the outside corners. Avoid fashion statements such as the Ari Gold square-toed slip-on.

For shirts, a solid white or ecru pinpoint oxford with a straight collar is always appropriate. Button-down and tab collars tend to bunch; spread collars look effete. If you might not have the time to get a shirt professionally laundered, have at least one high-quality no-iron shirt on hand. When you send your shirts out, ask for hangers (your other choice is folded), and heavy or medium starch. Absolutely imperative is that about 1/2 inch of cuff show past your suit coat at the wrist -- no more and no less (unless you are wearing a shirt with French cuffs and cuff links, in which case you should show cuff to just past the link; but your law school wardrobe does not call for cuff links). Wear a wife beater or v neck undershirt; a proper dress shirt will feel scratchy and if you are uncomfortable it will show in your bearing.

As for suits, until you need and can afford more wardrobe choices, stick to solids in very dark gray and navy. Brand does not matter so much as quality. As the posts above attest, price does not equal quality. There is a rich abundance of information on these forums about suit quality. Search these forums for a discussion of fused vs. canvassed suits. Get the best quality you can afford. Your suit should fit like a glove, which requires professional tailoring, so be sure to factor that into the cost. Avoid cuffs and pleats in the trousers. Wear your dress shoes to your fitting. A good tailor will be certain your trousers "break" perfectly over your shoes. Avoid a suit coat with no vent. For most men, a single vent is most flattering. A double vent is best only if you have a wide rear-end; avoid them otherwise.

I wish it could go without saying, but wardrobe maintenance is important. The scent of cigar on your suit from your cousin's wedding has not disappeared even though you no longer detect it. The pattern of your tie will not camouflage the minor drip from that errant salad dressing.

Once you have mastered the basics, you can experiment with, say, a pin stripe suit, braces (i.e. suspenders, which btw, should never match the tie), or a colorful paisley tie.

The idea is to avoid being judged for your wardrobe choices. Do everything well, and they'll have a good impression of you for reasons they might not be able to articulate. Do one thing wrong, and something they can't quite express may annoy them about you.

tl;dr

Dress like this guy.

--ImageRemoved--

[beachbum]

Hold up, so Nordstrom Rack actually has decent suits? They just opened one a few minutes away...

[lisjjen]

Hold up, so Nordstrom Rack actually has decent suits? They just opened one a few minutes away...

You have to hunt and peck. It's like a TJMaxx that has stuff you'd actually want to buy.

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

I can't imagine any of the T1 or T2 law schools are very far off from this when it comes to fashion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_P7yWnAAd0

[spets]

I'm no farmer.

[fastforward]

tl;dr

No need for you to read; looks like you got this thing.

[blsingindisguise]

Some good stuff in the long post above but I disagree on a few points:

1) Spread collars do not look "effete" - that's silly

2) A matter of preference, but I say the tie point should come closer to the top of the waistband when you stand up 100% straight. Inevitably, most people don't stand 100% straight most of the time and as such the tie can look too long and sloppy if it's tied to reach the bottom of the belt. In any case, I would not go a millimeter further than the bottom of the belt.

3) A proper four-in-hand is assymetrical, so i don't see how you can focus on symmetry. In any case, better to wear a half-windsor to interviews/court type situations.

4) STRONGLY disagree about wife-beaters/v-necks -- the outlines tend to show through the dress shirt and should be avoided unless you need to wear one with a business casual shirt. Tees are better because the only place their outline will be noticeable will be below the shoulders. I have also never heard of proper dress shirts being "scratchy."

[kalvano]

Heavy / medium starch is the worst idea ever. If I wanted to wear cardboard shirts, I would make them myself.