A set of 0L questions

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Mroberts3
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Re: A set of 0L questions

Postby Mroberts3 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:55 pm

1. Notes are the most important thing for me. They are THE basis for my outline and study strategy. Take notes critically -- don't just write down what is going on around you. Ask if the information is likely to show up on an exam and why it might. Always write down black letter law and case holdings, the rest is basically up to you (as is note structure).

3. My outlines were very short (like 15 pages) and that worked for me. I don't think there is a "right" way to do it, but I suspect that longer outlines do not = higher grades, so don't make them longer just for the hell of it. I make outlines as I go through the semester and edit them down at the end of the year. Checklists are also crucial as they are likely what you will actually use on the exam.

As for how to cut down, the most important think is to think about what will actually be on the exam and why its important to know it. The biggest mistake people make is thinking they have to have all the material written down (or its cousin, thinking they need to know "the answer" for everything rather than know HOW to analyze a type of problem).

5. Cases on exams varies. In contracts i never wrote a case name. In civ pro half of the essay was applying a few cases to the hypo in detail. This is more obvious once you start class because it becomes clear which cases are more than just a snippet of BLL and have a whole analytical structure behind them.

6. Outside info depends. You don't need to lean stuff outside the class (or shouldn't if your prof is being fair), but it may help a lot to know information that was assigned but not discussed in class. For example, a small case that didn't get a lot of class discussion might help you understand a rule even if you don't have to use it specifically on the exam.


Final note: read getting to maybe. Read it now. Read it again during the year. Read it more before finals. Then...you get the idea. Once you understand what a law school exam wants out of you, the rest of this "how to" stuff becomes more intuitive.

Green Crayons
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Re: A set of 0L questions

Postby Green Crayons » Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:59 pm

Etudilos wrote:I realize that certain amount of engaging friendliness is useful in law school as well as the legal profession, but I also think that getting involved past a certain point likely works against you. I know this sounds cold, like I'm 'all business' and 'dont let human emotions get in my way' or something, but really I'm just a very private person (I must be the last young person without facebook); I have one good friend, a girlfriend, my family, and like spending time alone-- I feel very complete and content, and I don't enjoy adding more people in my social circle and don't like being socially beholden to others. I don't want to get a phone call from someone at law school because he/she broke up with his/her boyfriend/girlfriend, and I don't want to sit in a study group where we waste two hours talking about the humorous habits of a teacher. I'm very protective of my spare time and how I spend it, and I just know I don't enjoy those things, so I'm very conscious about not trying to give off signals that I am willing to be that personal with other people (again, I don't want to be mean and certainly avoid being hostile, but I just try to subtly make my will toward non-intimacy clear). I realize that many people don't feel this way and wouldn't want to seclude themselves in this sense, and I totally respect and understand that.
I know kids like you in law school.

They did not do well first semester.

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Zannie1986
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Re: A set of 0L questions

Postby Zannie1986 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:18 pm

You're probably not going to like this answer, I know I didn't last semester, but a lot of the studying process is just figuring out what works for you. I would have flipped shit if I only brought a post it to a civ pro exam, and that class is a pretty straight forward class if you get a good teacher anyway. As painful and draggy as it is, I make sure every case we covered in class was on my outline. I felt it was better to have that assurance that everything was in there than "damn, what was that...if only I had...." type feeling. I do recommend doing your outlines in advance enough that you actually get to review your outline AND take practice exams. I suppose those who wait til reading days are already reviewing as they outline so they feel they're killing two birds with one stone; what they gave up with that choice it seemed was actually taking the 3-4 hrs to do practice exams. Maybe they were, it's hard to say, but I know that at least some people seemed surprised when the clock ran out and they still had so much left to say. I'd say I felt pretty comfortable with the time allotted. I know that's vague and not really directed towards your six questions, but once you start school, I'm not saying it all clicks, I'm still waiting for that, but I will say you have to do YOU, and try to channel out those who think they have the right path. you got it, just believe in it.

delusional
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Re: A set of 0L questions

Postby delusional » Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:26 am

Where does one find these famous notes/outlines of Xeoh?

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Tim0thy222
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Re: A set of 0L questions

Postby Tim0thy222 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:17 pm

delusional wrote:Where does one find these famous notes/outlines of Xeoh?


+1

I saw a link to a picture of the notes, but it appeared to just be one page. Is that all that is available?

nodummy
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Re: A set of 0L questions

Postby nodummy » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:11 pm

Where did you find classroom podcasts? I'm looking for video of 1L lectures, preferably from the fall semester to get an idea of what the first few classes are like.

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BlakcMajikc
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Re: A set of 0L questions

Postby BlakcMajikc » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:07 am

Tim0thy222 wrote:
delusional wrote:Where does one find these famous notes/outlines of Xeoh?


+1

I saw a link to a picture of the notes, but it appeared to just be one page. Is that all that is available?


Here is the link to a compilation of Xeoh's advice, including a link to a jpg of his notes/outline. Didn't go through the entire thread, but there may be some more of his stuff in it:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118545&hilit=Xeoh+notes

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BlakcMajikc
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Re: A set of 0L questions

Postby BlakcMajikc » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:24 am

nodummy wrote:Where did you find classroom podcasts? I'm looking for video of 1L lectures, preferably from the fall semester to get an idea of what the first few classes are like.


I googled: podcast civil procedure
this link to a pepperdine podcast and several others popped up:
http://professor_gregory_ogden_classes_ ... og/podcast

you can try googling other courses and see what pops up

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Tim0thy222
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Re: A set of 0L questions

Postby Tim0thy222 » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:12 pm

BlakcMajikc wrote:
Tim0thy222 wrote:
delusional wrote:Where does one find these famous notes/outlines of Xeoh?


+1

I saw a link to a picture of the notes, but it appeared to just be one page. Is that all that is available?


Here is the link to a compilation of Xeoh's advice, including a link to a jpg of his notes/outline. Didn't go through the entire thread, but there may be some more of his stuff in it:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... Xeoh+notes


Man, Xeoh is so awesome...

Thanks!

itimgtd
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Re: A set of 0L questions

Postby itimgtd » Tue May 03, 2011 5:56 am

interesting stuff..

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northwood
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Re: A set of 0L questions

Postby northwood » Sun May 08, 2011 2:39 am

Another 0L question( actually its more than one):

When did you all begin taking practice exams? When you got 3/4 of the way through the syllabus ( halfway- if you didnthave a midterm- sooner, or later?). Did you try to do one practice exam a week ( or more- but for different classes?) and how many practice exams for each class did you do?

Also: Ive heard a lot about memos and graded LRW. Do you have to figure out how to do this on your own( like a thesis type of class, where you meet with the professor only periodically, or is it another actual class( where you meet regularly)? ( I think this is a total noob question, but Ive been wondering)

Thanks for your help!

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Cupidity
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Re: A set of 0L questions

Postby Cupidity » Sun May 08, 2011 3:08 am

Etudilos wrote:1. Notes
Don't sweat notes. I've never looked at any of my class notes after the end of the class that day and so far it has only mattered on one short answer question on one exam. Notes are a good way to force yourself to pay attention in class, and I think there is some memory value to actually writing things, but don't stress over it. Class doesn't so much teach you stuff, as clarify and piece together the stuff you learn on your own either through the readings or supplements. Thus, listening to the lecture will usually be sufficient, and if it wasn't, your notes won't make a difference.

2. Recording lectures
Many schools and professors will not allow this. Regardless you should not do it. Reason 1) You will be laughed out of your section 2) it would be worthless.

3. Cutting Down Outlines
Easy solution, never make a long outline. An outline should be between 6 pages (torts/civ pro) and 15 pages (ConLaw) Don't let it get any bigger than it needs to, time is precious and your memory is finite.

4. Organizing outlines and keeping pace
Don't outline until late November, I got started two weeks before reading period on my first outline and did the rest during reading period. Don't outline too early, its a classic mistake. First, outlining early means you lose a lot of context, and second, you don't really apply the material. If you wrote it out in September, sure it is perfect, and you can memorize it, but it won't help you to apply it on an exam. Outlining close to exam time is an essential way to make the pieces of the puzzle fit.

5. Case information on exams:
I saw one short answer question on one exam that required me to know case information...I whipped out the casebook and read it during the exam. Before taking this advice, look at profs. old exams, but generally you should be fine without it. ConLaw would of course, be an exception.

6. Outside information:

Never use outside information. That doesn't mean don't use outside sources such as E&E's and hornbooks to review...but this is one of the biggest mistakes my friends made first semester. Out of the 100% of Contracts out there, you are taught 20%(if you are lucky) and are tested on 5%. Many of my friends who relied heavily on supplements had their knowledge clouded by extraneous information. Also, only supplement towards the end of the course. Each professor has a point of view regarding what is important...using hornbooks early on tends to obscure it, it is much easier to review a supplement once you understand what you need to get from it.

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Cupidity
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Re: A set of 0L questions

Postby Cupidity » Sun May 08, 2011 3:14 am

northwood wrote:Another 0L question( actually its more than one):

When did you all begin taking practice exams? When you got 3/4 of the way through the syllabus ( halfway- if you didnthave a midterm- sooner, or later?). Did you try to do one practice exam a week ( or more- but for different classes?) and how many practice exams for each class did you do?


During the reading period, generally two days before the final. Some teachers don't publish their exams and even when they do, there are a finite amount. You will be lucky to find 3 or 4 exams from your professor. Using them closer to the exam makes them more valuable. First semester though, I would advise you look over your professor's exams early on, in the first few weeks. Don't actually take it.... just skim it and see if you pick out any concepts. If your professor seems interested in case-law you know to learn it, if he seems to focus on rules and tests you can disregard a lot of info.

northwood wrote:Also: Ive heard a lot about memos and graded LRW. Do you have to figure out how to do this on your own( like a thesis type of class, where you meet with the professor only periodically, or is it another actual class( where you meet regularly)? ( I think this is a total noob question, but Ive been wondering)
Thanks for your help!


This varies both from school to school and from prof to prof. Generally LRW is taught by a practitioner or librarian, it will usually be a weekly class, or will meet every other week. At my school the primary teaching tool was conference feedback, we usually had an ungraded draft of each assignment due the week before. They would also teach basics in the class. There is a lot less quality control among LRW faculty though, and so some people have great and educational experiences and some people dont.

Sean1269
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Re: A set of 0L questions

Postby Sean1269 » Sun May 08, 2011 3:27 am

IMHO don't bother with the summer prep. First off, professors tend to like to teach their own way. Supplements are supplements for a reason, use them when you don't understand something your professor said.

Recording lectures and listening to podcasts will solely take up a lot of time, just take good notes in class and do the reading

Practice exams and outlines are different for everyone. Some people have 70 page outlines that serve them very well, they just memorize the rules via flashcards. Others (like myself) have very short outlines but memorize the entire thing. Practice exams are up in the air as well, I would suggest do a few in the last 2-3 weeks before finals just to get a feel for the exam (just outline them if you want). However, try and secure some good answers to them from the prof., they likely have model answers somewhere.

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Kimchi_smile
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Re: A set of 0L questions

Postby Kimchi_smile » Tue May 10, 2011 4:37 am

Green Crayons wrote:
Etudilos wrote:I realize that certain amount of engaging friendliness is useful in law school as well as the legal profession, but I also think that getting involved past a certain point likely works against you. I know this sounds cold, like I'm 'all business' and 'dont let human emotions get in my way' or something, but really I'm just a very private person (I must be the last young person without facebook); I have one good friend, a girlfriend, my family, and like spending time alone-- I feel very complete and content, and I don't enjoy adding more people in my social circle and don't like being socially beholden to others. I don't want to get a phone call from someone at law school because he/she broke up with his/her boyfriend/girlfriend, and I don't want to sit in a study group where we waste two hours talking about the humorous habits of a teacher. I'm very protective of my spare time and how I spend it, and I just know I don't enjoy those things, so I'm very conscious about not trying to give off signals that I am willing to be that personal with other people (again, I don't want to be mean and certainly avoid being hostile, but I just try to subtly make my will toward non-intimacy clear). I realize that many people don't feel this way and wouldn't want to seclude themselves in this sense, and I totally respect and understand that.
I know kids like you in law school.

They did not do well first semester.


Really? Why though? I'm sure one should be friendly toward other students and help each other if possible, but wouldn't spending 2 hours at a study group talking about a professor's humor a huge waste of time? Wouldn't the time be better spent making outlines? I'm also a 0L, but I don't see any reasons for being overly friendly.

Also, I would assume that the one who manages his time well and studies very hard would do well first semester. Is it not the case?

BlakcMajikc wrote:
Tim0thy222 wrote:
delusional wrote:Where does one find these famous notes/outlines of Xeoh?


+1

I saw a link to a picture of the notes, but it appeared to just be one page. Is that all that is available?


Here is the link to a compilation of Xeoh's advice, including a link to a jpg of his notes/outline. Didn't go through the entire thread, but there may be some more of his stuff in it:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118545&hilit=Xeoh+notes


He got 4.0+ GPA at UCLA and transferred to HYS and decided to go to S. :shock: He's legendary! :shock:

Thanks for the link! Reading through the thread gives me inspiration!

CrimLaw300
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Re: A set of 0L questions

Postby CrimLaw300 » Mon May 23, 2011 12:40 pm

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