Need Help/Advice

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damage-inc
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Need Help/Advice

Postby damage-inc » Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:58 pm

(Also posted in the Financial Aid forum)

Creating this thread because I was just recently blind sided by Cornell with absolute $0 in grants even though I believe my family has enough of a need to justify some kind of need-based grant. I filed both FAFSA and NeedAccess on time and I am showing factual and legitimate numbers of 36k combined family income (12k parents + 24k me) , no assets such as stocks,bonds or house, over 25k in undergrad loans, and most importantly 0 Expected Family Contribution. I don't want to make this thread a long list of how poor my family is but I truly do believe that the above justifies some kind of need.

Now I know that I have a 167/3.9+ and those numbers might not blow away anyone at Cornell admissions but those same numbers have snagged me 38k/year merit from WUSTL and 25k/year merit from BU (currently being reconsidered in light of WUSTL's offer) as well as numerous other scholarships

I am not sure as to what is wrong on my need application that Cornell is giving me nothing. What do TLS'ers suggest I do in this situation? Is there any way I can put my family's financial hardships into words for them?

Thanks for the help

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Patriot1208
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Re: Need Help/Advice

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:14 pm

Sorry but Cornell and the vast majority of law schools do not give out need based grants, or at the very least only give out a miniscule amount. The schools most known for it are harvard, yale, stanford, and columbia. No matter what you do now you probably aren't getting need based aid from Cornell because they already did their calculations. You can take out loans or you can take merit aid at a lower school. Or you can retake the lsat, score much higher, and get merit aid from cornell or need based from columbia.

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Cupidity
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Re: Need Help/Advice

Postby Cupidity » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:31 pm

Looking at your numbers, BU is paying you what you are worth, don't get your hopes up.

FiveSermon
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Re: Need Help/Advice

Postby FiveSermon » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:35 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:Sorry but Cornell and the vast majority of law schools do not give out need based grants, or at the very least only give out a miniscule amount. The schools most known for it are harvard, yale, stanford, and columbia. No matter what you do now you probably aren't getting need based aid from Cornell because they already did their calculations. You can take out loans or you can take merit aid at a lower school. Or you can retake the lsat, score much higher, and get merit aid from cornell or need based from columbia.


This. Your LSAT drags down their barely sustained new median even though you have a high GPA.

I am a little shocked at 0 aid since you seem to be making very little $ (parents included).

Try to negotiate with Cornell for some $. You'd be lucky to get anything though.

damage-inc
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Re: Need Help/Advice

Postby damage-inc » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:48 pm

thanks for the replies up to this point. So would a meeting with the financial aid director be worth it at all? that goes back to my original question, would it be worth it try putting my financial need into words so that they possibly reconsider?

FiveSermon
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Re: Need Help/Advice

Postby FiveSermon » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:51 pm

damage-inc wrote:thanks for the replies up to this point. So would a meeting with the financial aid director be worth it at all? that goes back to my original question, would it be worth it try putting my financial need into words so that they possibly reconsider?


I think emailing them with offers from other schools is what most people do.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Need Help/Advice

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:54 pm

FiveSermon wrote:
damage-inc wrote:thanks for the replies up to this point. So would a meeting with the financial aid director be worth it at all? that goes back to my original question, would it be worth it try putting my financial need into words so that they possibly reconsider?


I think emailing them with offers from other schools is what most people do.

He's trying to get NEED based aid. He isn't getting any merit aid. And telling him that BU and WUSTL gave him some money isn't going to help. OP, you can try talking to the financial aid office about the aid but you aren't going to win a fight in the merit part of it and i'd doubt you are getting anything in the need based part. But, of course, you never make a shot you don't take.

FiveSermon
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Re: Need Help/Advice

Postby FiveSermon » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:58 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:
damage-inc wrote:thanks for the replies up to this point. So would a meeting with the financial aid director be worth it at all? that goes back to my original question, would it be worth it try putting my financial need into words so that they possibly reconsider?


I think emailing them with offers from other schools is what most people do.

He's trying to get NEED based aid. He isn't getting any merit aid. And telling him that BU and WUSTL gave him some money isn't going to help. OP, you can try talking to the financial aid office about the aid but you aren't going to win a fight in the merit part of it and i'd doubt you are getting anything in the need based part. But, of course, you never make a shot you don't take.


There is a 167 with a lower GPA than OP that negotiated some $ at Cornell this year.

To simply dismiss his chances at getting any merit aid from his other offers is ludicrous. Also emailing them politely would do nothing to hurt him. What will they do? Rescind his admission? Make him pay more?

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Patriot1208
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Re: Need Help/Advice

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:59 pm

FiveSermon wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:
damage-inc wrote:thanks for the replies up to this point. So would a meeting with the financial aid director be worth it at all? that goes back to my original question, would it be worth it try putting my financial need into words so that they possibly reconsider?


I think emailing them with offers from other schools is what most people do.

He's trying to get NEED based aid. He isn't getting any merit aid. And telling him that BU and WUSTL gave him some money isn't going to help. OP, you can try talking to the financial aid office about the aid but you aren't going to win a fight in the merit part of it and i'd doubt you are getting anything in the need based part. But, of course, you never make a shot you don't take.


There is a 167 with a lower GPA than OP that negotiated some $ at Cornell this year.

To simply dismiss his chances at getting any merit aid from his other offers is ludicrous. Also emailing them politely would do nothing to hurt him. What will they do? Rescind his admission? Make him pay more?

So, you didn't read my whole post?

FiveSermon
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Re: Need Help/Advice

Postby FiveSermon » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:01 pm

I did and I'm telling him he should attempt to negotiate some merit $. I never told him how to go about getting need based $ because I've never heard of someone negotiating more money by simply saying they need it more. And you said he simply won't get any merit based $.

He has a slight chance at getting some. And it won't hurt him at all to try. So why are you saying he won't get any before he even tries?

Maybe I should refresh your memory

He's trying to get NEED based aid. He isn't getting any merit aid. And telling him that BU and WUSTL gave him some money isn't going to help. OP, you can try talking to the financial aid office about the aid but you aren't going to win a fight in the merit part of it and i'd doubt you are getting anything in the need based part. But, of course, you never make a shot you don't take.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Need Help/Advice

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:04 pm

FiveSermon wrote:I did and I'm telling him he should attempt to negotiate some merit $. I never told him how to go about getting need based $ because I've never heard of someone negotiating more money by simply saying they need it more. And you said he simply won't get any merit based $.

He has a slight chance at getting some. And it won't hurt him at all to try. So why are you saying he won't get any before he even tries?

Maybe I should refresh your memory

He's trying to get NEED based aid. He isn't getting any merit aid. And telling him that BU and WUSTL gave him some money isn't going to help. OP, you can try talking to the financial aid office about the aid but you aren't going to win a fight in the merit part of it and i'd doubt you are getting anything in the need based part. But, of course, you never make a shot you don't take.

So, again, you didn't read the part where I said he should go talk to them despite what I believe?

ETA i'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and guess that you are misreading my post, which is partly my fault due to a punctuation issue.

FiveSermon
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Re: Need Help/Advice

Postby FiveSermon » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:09 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:I did and I'm telling him he should attempt to negotiate some merit $. I never told him how to go about getting need based $ because I've never heard of someone negotiating more money by simply saying they need it more. And you said he simply won't get any merit based $.

He has a slight chance at getting some. And it won't hurt him at all to try. So why are you saying he won't get any before he even tries?

Maybe I should refresh your memory

He's trying to get NEED based aid. He isn't getting any merit aid. And telling him that BU and WUSTL gave him some money isn't going to help. OP, you can try talking to the financial aid office about the aid but you aren't going to win a fight in the merit part of it and i'd doubt you are getting anything in the need based part. But, of course, you never make a shot you don't take.

So, again, you didn't read the part where I said he should go talk to them despite what I believe?


So what did that post do to contribute anything. You went on to say that he wouldn't get merit aid and he probably wouldn't get need based aid but "you never make a shot you don't take".

Benefit of attempting to negotiate money: Actually getting money. People with worse numbers than him have done it this cycle. It's not like he's trying to get into Yale with a 160/2.0.

Negatives of attempting to negotiate money: 5 minutes of his time to scan other offers and write an email?

What exactly were you trying to inform him of? That he probably wouldn't get money? Didn't I already agree with you there on a previous post?

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Patriot1208
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Re: Need Help/Advice

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:11 pm

FiveSermon wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:I did and I'm telling him he should attempt to negotiate some merit $. I never told him how to go about getting need based $ because I've never heard of someone negotiating more money by simply saying they need it more. And you said he simply won't get any merit based $.

He has a slight chance at getting some. And it won't hurt him at all to try. So why are you saying he won't get any before he even tries?

Maybe I should refresh your memory

He's trying to get NEED based aid. He isn't getting any merit aid. And telling him that BU and WUSTL gave him some money isn't going to help. OP, you can try talking to the financial aid office about the aid but you aren't going to win a fight in the merit part of it and i'd doubt you are getting anything in the need based part. But, of course, you never make a shot you don't take.

So, again, you didn't read the part where I said he should go talk to them despite what I believe?


So what did that post do to contribute anything. You went on to say that he wouldn't get merit aid and he probably wouldn't get need based aid but "you never make a shot you don't take".

Benefit of attempting to negotiate money: Actually getting money. People with worse numbers than him have done it this cycle. It's not like he's trying to get into Yale with a 160/2.0.

Negatives of attempting to negotiate money: 5 minutes of his time to scan other offers and write an email?

What exactly were you trying to inform him of? That he probably wouldn't get money? Didn't I already agree with you there on a previous post?


I'm not sure what you are arguing here. Yes, I think it's extremely slim he gets any aid but he should still go talk to the financial aid office.

FiveSermon
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Re: Need Help/Advice

Postby FiveSermon » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:13 pm

I'm not sure what you are arguing here. Yes, I think it's extremely slim he gets any aid but he should still go talk to the financial aid office.


This is pretty much what I was telling him. Not sure what you were saying when you replied to my post unless you were reiterating the exact same thing.

damage-inc
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Re: Need Help/Advice

Postby damage-inc » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:13 pm

I think the confusion in this thread stems from Cornell's combination package of Merit + Need. They don't specifically distinguish it for you so you will never be able to tell.

I am specifically asking the question: "taking merit out of the question, will meeting with the aid office and explaining my financial hardship in words (rather than numbers on needaccess) lead to any sort of grant?"

If you browse the numerous Cornell threads in the different forums (choosing law school/acceptances and denails/financial aid) there is evidence of both: people with numbers below medians getting need-based aid (up to 90k) and Cornell asking to see scholarships from BU and WUSTL.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Need Help/Advice

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:15 pm

damage-inc wrote:I think the confusion in this thread stems from Cornell's combination package of Merit + Need. They don't specifically distinguish it for you so you will never be able to tell.

I am specifically asking the question: "taking merit out of the question, will meeting with the aid office and explaining my financial hardship in words (rather than numbers on needaccess) lead to any sort of grant?"

If you browse the numerous Cornell threads in the different forums (choosing law school/acceptances and denails/financial aid) there is evidence of both: people with numbers below medians getting need-based aid (up to 90k) and Cornell asking to see scholarships from BU and WUSTL.

I've never heard of anyone successfully negotiating need based after the fact because it's done in an extremely formulaic type of way.

FiveSermon
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Re: Need Help/Advice

Postby FiveSermon » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:16 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
damage-inc wrote:I think the confusion in this thread stems from Cornell's combination package of Merit + Need. They don't specifically distinguish it for you so you will never be able to tell.

I am specifically asking the question: "taking merit out of the question, will meeting with the aid office and explaining my financial hardship in words (rather than numbers on needaccess) lead to any sort of grant?"

If you browse the numerous Cornell threads in the different forums (choosing law school/acceptances and denails/financial aid) there is evidence of both: people with numbers below medians getting need-based aid (up to 90k) and Cornell asking to see scholarships from BU and WUSTL.

I've never heard of anyone successfully negotiating need based after the fact because it's done in an extremely formulaic type of way.


Yeah. Trying to squeeze some merit based $ is your best shot.

damage-inc
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Re: Need Help/Advice

Postby damage-inc » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:20 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:I've never heard of anyone successfully negotiating need based after the fact because it's done in an extremely formulaic type of way.


which is what is confusing me. The Admit Package talks about the fact that need is calculated after subtracting expected family and student contribution. I don't get how some formula is violated when my EFC is 0 and my own contribution will be 0

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aspire2more
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Re: Need Help/Advice

Postby aspire2more » Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:46 pm

damage-inc wrote:thanks for the replies up to this point. So would a meeting with the financial aid director be worth it at all? that goes back to my original question, would it be worth it try putting my financial need into words so that they possibly reconsider?


If you want to go to Cornell and you want a grant, then yes it would be worth it. It's not going to hurt you and can only potentially help.




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