The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

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Alex-Trof
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby Alex-Trof » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:44 pm

Although most of the points made seem to be valid. I somewhat disagree with some.

1. LSAT maybe important but it is not everything. Many people fall into a trap of looking at their stats and applying to 20 schools with medians around those numbers and just hoping to get into at least one reach school, get money from at least some real possibilities, and get full rides from some easy schools. I think this approach to applying is flawed. Chose few school that you like and then apply there, Of course be reasonable, but rather than applying to 10 reach schools and playing lottery game, learn about or even visit 1-2 school that you really like. Do the same for another 3 schools. Reach out to students. Get as much info as possible. Target your applications for each of them. Spend quality time and effort making sure your application is as good as it can be and apply early.

2. LSAT is testing your ability to do well on LSAT. That is about it. By the way the correlation between the most recent LSAT and law school performance is .33 (and has been steadily decreasing) and GPA is about .28. The correlation is probably higher for outside of 25-75 percentile range, but I highly doubt you will be more successful if you answered 2-3 more multiple choice questions right.

3. Good point

4. Agree

5. CCN MVPB DNCG groupings were probably created on TLS for people to pet their egos and find some audience that would actually care to think more of them if they went to NYU versus Cornell for example.

6. True

7. Probably.

8. Aim for the best score you can get. For some people that is 180, for some 170, for others it may be 160. Don't listen to people on here that use LSAT the same way insecure teenagers use flawed rulers to measure their penises. There are millions of reasons to pick a lower ranked school over T10, T6, T14 or whatever arbitrary bracket you want to use. Those may include (location, scholarships, personal preference, ties, etc...)

9. Specialty rankings and school specific info can be useful when choosing among peer schools.

10. Do not ED to UVA or NW if you don't want to go there or there are peer school where you would much rather go. Again, find the school that is reasonable and you like, tailor your application to it and ED there.

11. Yes, although do not sacrifice the quality of your application just to be the first one to apply.

12. Yup.

13. Yes.

14. Yes.

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eminem
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby eminem » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:48 pm

I thought this was solid.

Not sure where it would best fit in (LSAT, maybe), but I would includea little more about 'soft' factors. Work experience, military service, TFA, ect... I think a lot of people new to the process are under the impression these things can overcome a weak LSAT. Best as I can figure, they really serve as discriminators between applicants with solid numbers. The best way I've seen it put: numbers are necessary, but not sufficient.

lawloser22
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby lawloser22 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:52 pm

Alex-Trof wrote:5. CCN MVPB DNCG groupings were probably created on TLS for people to pet their egos and find some audience that would actually care to think more of them if they went to NYU versus Cornell for example.


For the most part I agree with this. The reason I used them is that in the OCI threads everyone listed their schools as being in one of these four groupings. I took this to mean they were considered roughly equivalent within each grouping in terms of employability. Perhaps not.

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beachbum
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby beachbum » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:57 pm

Hmm. I feel like this list was put together by someone who's hung out on TLS for a month and now consider himself to be an expert on law school admissions. That is, it contains some good info, some bad info, and a lot of info that can't be proven one way or the other. I give it 3/5.

lawloser22
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby lawloser22 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:04 pm

beachbum wrote:Hmm. I feel like this list was put together by someone who's hung out on TLS for a month and now consider himself to be an expert on law school admissions. That is, it contains some good info, some bad info, and a lot of info that can't be proven one way or the other. I give it 3/5.


Sure, most of it is opinions and a lot of tls groupthink. By no means do I consider myself an expert on admissions -- part of the reason why I keep editing the initial post based on the feedback. I would be interested to hear what you disagree with.

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BruceWayne
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby BruceWayne » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:07 pm

lawloser22 wrote:
beachbum wrote:Hmm. I feel like this list was put together by someone who's hung out on TLS for a month and now consider himself to be an expert on law school admissions. That is, it contains some good info, some bad info, and a lot of info that can't be proven one way or the other. I give it 3/5.


Sure, most of it is opinions and a lot of tls groupthink. By no means do I consider myself an expert on admissions -- part of the reason why I keep editing the initial post based on the feedback. I would be interested to hear what you disagree with.


Edit your post to fit what Alex Trof said.

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Grizz
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby Grizz » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:17 pm

lawloser22 wrote:Nashville and LA are large legal markets.


lol no

lawloser22
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby lawloser22 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:30 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
lawloser22 wrote:
beachbum wrote:Hmm. I feel like this list was put together by someone who's hung out on TLS for a month and now consider himself to be an expert on law school admissions. That is, it contains some good info, some bad info, and a lot of info that can't be proven one way or the other. I give it 3/5.


Sure, most of it is opinions and a lot of tls groupthink. By no means do I consider myself an expert on admissions -- part of the reason why I keep editing the initial post based on the feedback. I would be interested to hear what you disagree with.


Edit your post to fit what Alex Trof said.


Done.

rad law wrote:
lawloser22 wrote:Nashville and LA are large legal markets.


lol no


My bad, no idea why I thought that.

09042014
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby 09042014 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:14 pm

beachbum wrote:Hmm. I feel like this list was put together by someone who's hung out on TLS for a month and now consider himself to be an expert on law school admissions. That is, it contains some good info, some bad info, and a lot of info that can't be proven one way or the other. I give it 3/5.


That sort of nefarious ND and Tulane trolling sounds like Law School Discussion Alumni.

lawloser22
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby lawloser22 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:14 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
beachbum wrote:Hmm. I feel like this list was put together by someone who's hung out on TLS for a month and now consider himself to be an expert on law school admissions. That is, it contains some good info, some bad info, and a lot of info that can't be proven one way or the other. I give it 3/5.


That sort of nefarious ND and Tulane trolling sounds like Law School Discussion Alumni.


I think you're just upset about #14 (though admittedly that may be where I read that).

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aspire2more
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby aspire2more » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:39 am

Writing your recommendation writers a thank-you note and updating them once you've found out where you're going is a very courteous thing to do. Sending a gift is almost universally regarded as inappropriate.

lawloser22
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby lawloser22 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:29 am

aspire2more wrote:Writing your recommendation writers a thank-you note and updating them once you've found out where you're going is a very courteous thing to do. Sending a gift is almost universally regarded as inappropriate.


That's interesting. There have been multiple threads like this one recently which suggest otherwise:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=104632

I would be interested in hearing shortporch's thoughts on this.

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powerlawyer06
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby powerlawyer06 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:45 am

15. Be an under represented minority. Then none of the preceding 14 apply to you.

dkt4
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby dkt4 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:57 am

powerlawyer06 wrote:15. Be an under represented minority. Then none of the preceding 14 apply to you.


the police told me try to not be a URM when i was a kid. this is horribly misleading.

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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:21 am

Figured this would be stupid, but overall, nicely done.


Couple notes: (IMO, of course)
8. - Its not 170 or bust. However, your goal should be 170.

12. - I take issue with. You're pretty clear cut in your advice where there is a lot of conflicting opinion. I feel my prep, though insubstantial, helped. I was prepared for what school was going to be like and went in with a plan. It helped, that's for me, personally, and at least a few others I attend school with.

rose711
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby rose711 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:13 am

15. Research the job market(s) you think you might want to go into after you graduate. Many places have hiring freezes. Don't assume that biglaw is for you just because you see the salaries. Find out how deep into the class firms hire, how many firms go to OCI, how many SAs they hire, and talk to current 3Ls and 2Ls about their job searches.
Last edited by rose711 on Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

bendurnotes4me
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby bendurnotes4me » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:25 am

How do you find out how deep into a class the firm hires? Do you have to contact individual firms to find out that information or are there statistics for the top schools - other than the school-reported % in private firms or the NLJ 250 list..

flcath
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby flcath » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:40 pm

ND and Tulane, eh?

I wanna add that TFA really isn't very competitive; it's just not an gig that's impressed by academic credentials. You've probably seen (and I've since met) ppl with 3.6's from ivies who got rejected from TFA, and assumed naturally that TFA must be super competitive.

I knew numerous (like literally, probably ~20) kids with 3.0-3.5 gpas at my sTTTate school who did TFA; they were just very social, likable, and engaged in extracurricular activities.

Lesson: don't be an aspie fuck. This will also get you booted from Biglaw eventually.

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Alex-Trof
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby Alex-Trof » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:49 pm

flcath wrote:ND and Tulane, eh?

I wanna add that TFA really isn't very competitive; it's just not an gig that's impressed by academic credentials. You've probably seen (and I've since met) ppl with 3.6's from ivies who got rejected from TFA, and assumed naturally that TFA must be super competitive.

I knew numerous (like literally, probably ~20) kids with 3.0-3.5 gpas at my sTTTate school who did TFA; they were just very social, likable, and engaged in extracurricular activities.

Lesson: don't be an aspie fuck. This will also get you booted from Biglaw eventually.


They are very particular about what they are looking for. You have to actually embody their values and views to be a viable candidate. By the way, their average GPA for 2009 Corps Members was 3.6, SAT I think was in the mid 1300s, 95% of Corps members had significant leadership experience in college. They do try to be diverse and recruit from good as well as not so good colleges. But they are fairly selective, given that out of 46,000 applicants only 4,500 gained acceptance.

bdubs
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby bdubs » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:55 pm

Alex-Trof wrote:
flcath wrote:ND and Tulane, eh?

I wanna add that TFA really isn't very competitive; it's just not an gig that's impressed by academic credentials. You've probably seen (and I've since met) ppl with 3.6's from ivies who got rejected from TFA, and assumed naturally that TFA must be super competitive.

I knew numerous (like literally, probably ~20) kids with 3.0-3.5 gpas at my sTTTate school who did TFA; they were just very social, likable, and engaged in extracurricular activities.

Lesson: don't be an aspie fuck. This will also get you booted from Biglaw eventually.


They are very particular about what they are looking for. You have to actually embody their values and views to be a viable candidate. By the way, their average GPA for 2009 Corps Members was 3.6, SAT I think was in the mid 1300s, 95% of Corps members had significant leadership experience in college. They do try to be diverse and recruit from good as well as not so good colleges. But they are fairly selective, given that out of 46,000 applicants only 4,500 gained acceptance.


The point I was trying to make is that with 46k applicants they aren't hiring a lot of sub 3.0 GPAs which is what the OP was suggesting. TFA is not a fall back plan for when you get fired from your barista job.

Also, aside from knowing people who were in or interested in TFA lots of my perspective comes from this piece:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/12/educa ... nerip.html

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Alex-Trof
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby Alex-Trof » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:22 pm

bdubs wrote:
Alex-Trof wrote:
flcath wrote:ND and Tulane, eh?

I wanna add that TFA really isn't very competitive; it's just not an gig that's impressed by academic credentials. You've probably seen (and I've since met) ppl with 3.6's from ivies who got rejected from TFA, and assumed naturally that TFA must be super competitive.

I knew numerous (like literally, probably ~20) kids with 3.0-3.5 gpas at my sTTTate school who did TFA; they were just very social, likable, and engaged in extracurricular activities.

Lesson: don't be an aspie fuck. This will also get you booted from Biglaw eventually.


They are very particular about what they are looking for. You have to actually embody their values and views to be a viable candidate. By the way, their average GPA for 2009 Corps Members was 3.6, SAT I think was in the mid 1300s, 95% of Corps members had significant leadership experience in college. They do try to be diverse and recruit from good as well as not so good colleges. But they are fairly selective, given that out of 46,000 applicants only 4,500 gained acceptance.


The point I was trying to make is that with 46k applicants they aren't hiring a lot of sub 3.0 GPAs which is what the OP was suggesting. TFA is not a fall back plan for when you get fired from your barista job.

Also, aside from knowing people who were in or interested in TFA lots of my perspective comes from this piece:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/12/educa ... nerip.html


That's exactly what I was saying. LOL. I was replying to a post stating that TFA was not at all that competitive.

bdubs
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby bdubs » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:25 pm

Alex-Trof wrote:
bdubs wrote:
Alex-Trof wrote:
flcath wrote:ND and Tulane, eh?

I wanna add that TFA really isn't very competitive; it's just not an gig that's impressed by academic credentials. You've probably seen (and I've since met) ppl with 3.6's from ivies who got rejected from TFA, and assumed naturally that TFA must be super competitive.

I knew numerous (like literally, probably ~20) kids with 3.0-3.5 gpas at my sTTTate school who did TFA; they were just very social, likable, and engaged in extracurricular activities.

Lesson: don't be an aspie fuck. This will also get you booted from Biglaw eventually.


They are very particular about what they are looking for. You have to actually embody their values and views to be a viable candidate. By the way, their average GPA for 2009 Corps Members was 3.6, SAT I think was in the mid 1300s, 95% of Corps members had significant leadership experience in college. They do try to be diverse and recruit from good as well as not so good colleges. But they are fairly selective, given that out of 46,000 applicants only 4,500 gained acceptance.


The point I was trying to make is that with 46k applicants they aren't hiring a lot of sub 3.0 GPAs which is what the OP was suggesting. TFA is not a fall back plan for when you get fired from your barista job.

Also, aside from knowing people who were in or interested in TFA lots of my perspective comes from this piece:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/12/educa ... nerip.html


That's exactly what I was saying. LOL. I was replying to a post stating that TFA was not at all that competitive.


I know I was supporting your points.

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Alex-Trof
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby Alex-Trof » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:25 pm

bdubs wrote:I know I was supporting your points.


Oh, my bad.

09042014
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby 09042014 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:36 pm

Nobody cares you taught school for 2 years. It's not hard.

lawloser22
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Re: The Top 14 Things to Know Before Going to Law School

Postby lawloser22 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:42 pm

bdubs wrote:
Alex-Trof wrote:
flcath wrote:ND and Tulane, eh?

I wanna add that TFA really isn't very competitive; it's just not an gig that's impressed by academic credentials. You've probably seen (and I've since met) ppl with 3.6's from ivies who got rejected from TFA, and assumed naturally that TFA must be super competitive.

I knew numerous (like literally, probably ~20) kids with 3.0-3.5 gpas at my sTTTate school who did TFA; they were just very social, likable, and engaged in extracurricular activities.

Lesson: don't be an aspie fuck. This will also get you booted from Biglaw eventually.


They are very particular about what they are looking for. You have to actually embody their values and views to be a viable candidate. By the way, their average GPA for 2009 Corps Members was 3.6, SAT I think was in the mid 1300s, 95% of Corps members had significant leadership experience in college. They do try to be diverse and recruit from good as well as not so good colleges. But they are fairly selective, given that out of 46,000 applicants only 4,500 gained acceptance.


The point I was trying to make is that with 46k applicants they aren't hiring a lot of sub 3.0 GPAs which is what the OP was suggesting. TFA is not a fall back plan for when you get fired from your barista job.

Also, aside from knowing people who were in or interested in TFA lots of my perspective comes from this piece:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/12/educa ... nerip.html


The point was just that as far as admissions go, it doesn't really matter what you do for two years. Bartend.




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