Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

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albusdumbledore
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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby albusdumbledore » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:49 pm

skoobily doobily wrote:"Is there really a degree that prepares you for law school?"

No. Law is a unique field of study, and beyond good reading comprehension, solid writing skill, and sufficient analytic ability, you don't need any other preparation for law school.


Are there degrees from which graduates have the propensity to succeed in law school?

Yes, but probably only inasmuch as those graduates would be inherently better at law school whether or not they had earned that specific degree.


I don't understand what these last 4 pages are about.


This would assume you can't gain better reading comprehension, writing skills, and analytic ability from one undergrad degree over another, which I think is patently false. Anyways, the answer to this thread is philosophy. If it is done right, it's heavily analytic (formal logic), forces you to read and understand ridiculously complex material, and will hone your writing skills at least as much as any other liberal arts major.

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FalafelWaffle
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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby FalafelWaffle » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:56 pm

albusdumbledore wrote:
skoobily doobily wrote:"Is there really a degree that prepares you for law school?"

No. Law is a unique field of study, and beyond good reading comprehension, solid writing skill, and sufficient analytic ability, you don't need any other preparation for law school.


Are there degrees from which graduates have the propensity to succeed in law school?

Yes, but probably only inasmuch as those graduates would be inherently better at law school whether or not they had earned that specific degree.


I don't understand what these last 4 pages are about.


This would assume you can't gain better reading comprehension, writing skills, and analytic ability from one undergrad degree over another, which I think is patently false. Anyways, the answer to this thread is philosophy. If it is done right, it's heavily analytic (formal logic), forces you to read and understand ridiculously complex material, and will hone your writing skills at least as much as any other liberal arts major.


Meh, philosophy keeps getting touted around as THE major, but I'm not convinced. With the exception of the Deductive Logic course I took, I don't think upper level Philosophy courses have any more ridiculously complex material than a similar major. I don't think, for example, the Grotius I read for International Law (Poli Sci department) was any more difficult than, say, Kant in a similar level Philosophy course. Granted, one could argue that Grotius was a philosopher, but my point is that it's not limited to the Philosophy department. I'm working my way through a seminar on Chinese politics, and let me tell you, the reading isn't exactly a picnic. I highly doubt that the most prestigious American philosophy journal publishes articles that are any more difficult than the ones I'm reading in China Quarterly. Major elitism is kind of silly, especially when arguing for superiority within similar disciplines.

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FalafelWaffle
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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby FalafelWaffle » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:05 pm

BrianGriffintheDog wrote:Bachelor of law if you're in UK
True story bro


Used to be LLB's in this country too. My great uncle earned one, back in the day.

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albusdumbledore
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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby albusdumbledore » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:15 pm

FalafelWaffle wrote:
albusdumbledore wrote:
skoobily doobily wrote:"Is there really a degree that prepares you for law school?"

No. Law is a unique field of study, and beyond good reading comprehension, solid writing skill, and sufficient analytic ability, you don't need any other preparation for law school.


Are there degrees from which graduates have the propensity to succeed in law school?

Yes, but probably only inasmuch as those graduates would be inherently better at law school whether or not they had earned that specific degree.


I don't understand what these last 4 pages are about.


This would assume you can't gain better reading comprehension, writing skills, and analytic ability from one undergrad degree over another, which I think is patently false. Anyways, the answer to this thread is philosophy. If it is done right, it's heavily analytic (formal logic), forces you to read and understand ridiculously complex material, and will hone your writing skills at least as much as any other liberal arts major.


Meh, philosophy keeps getting touted around as THE major, but I'm not convinced. With the exception of the Deductive Logic course I took, I don't think upper level Philosophy courses have any more ridiculously complex material than a similar major. I don't think, for example, the Grotius I read for International Law (Poli Sci department) was any more difficult than, say, Kant in a similar level Philosophy course. Granted, one could argue that Grotius was a philosopher, but my point is that it's not limited to the Philosophy department. I'm working my way through a seminar on Chinese politics, and let me tell you, the reading isn't exactly a picnic. I highly doubt that the most prestigious American philosophy journal publishes articles that are any more difficult than the ones I'm reading in China Quarterly. Major elitism is kind of silly, especially when arguing for superiority within similar disciplines.


I don't doubt the difficulty comprehension wise, but I think philosophy is different in regards to the analytical skills that it requires. I'm sure that comprehension wise most other liberal arts majors (like English) read just as difficult material and write just as well, but with philosophy there are extra analytical steps involved. You've got to be able to analyze arguments, deal with syllogisms, find fallacies, etc. Analytically, I think philosophy is second only to math, and I don't think other liberal arts majors directly sharpen that area as well as philosophy.

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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby fatduck » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:16 pm

albusdumbledore wrote:
FalafelWaffle wrote:
albusdumbledore wrote:
skoobily doobily wrote:"Is there really a degree that prepares you for law school?"

No. Law is a unique field of study, and beyond good reading comprehension, solid writing skill, and sufficient analytic ability, you don't need any other preparation for law school.


Are there degrees from which graduates have the propensity to succeed in law school?

Yes, but probably only inasmuch as those graduates would be inherently better at law school whether or not they had earned that specific degree.


I don't understand what these last 4 pages are about.


This would assume you can't gain better reading comprehension, writing skills, and analytic ability from one undergrad degree over another, which I think is patently false. Anyways, the answer to this thread is philosophy. If it is done right, it's heavily analytic (formal logic), forces you to read and understand ridiculously complex material, and will hone your writing skills at least as much as any other liberal arts major.


Meh, philosophy keeps getting touted around as THE major, but I'm not convinced. With the exception of the Deductive Logic course I took, I don't think upper level Philosophy courses have any more ridiculously complex material than a similar major. I don't think, for example, the Grotius I read for International Law (Poli Sci department) was any more difficult than, say, Kant in a similar level Philosophy course. Granted, one could argue that Grotius was a philosopher, but my point is that it's not limited to the Philosophy department. I'm working my way through a seminar on Chinese politics, and let me tell you, the reading isn't exactly a picnic. I highly doubt that the most prestigious American philosophy journal publishes articles that are any more difficult than the ones I'm reading in China Quarterly. Major elitism is kind of silly, especially when arguing for superiority within similar disciplines.


I don't doubt the difficulty comprehension wise, but I think philosophy is different in regards to the analytical skills that it requires. I'm sure that comprehension wise most other liberal arts majors (like English) read just as difficult material and write just as well, but with philosophy there are extra analytical steps involved. You've got to be able to analyze arguments, deal with syllogisms, find fallacies, etc. Analytically, I think philosophy is second only to math, and I don't think other liberal arts majors directly sharpen that area as well as philosophy.

do you really do any of that beyond introductory logic courses? are you sure the rest isn't just reading foucault and masturbating?

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albusdumbledore
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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby albusdumbledore » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:20 pm

fatduck wrote:do you really do any of that beyond introductory logic courses? are you sure the rest isn't just reading foucault and masturbating?


Lol, that's why I included the caveat of "If it's done right". Foucault is generally considered a continental philosopher, which is much different than analytical philosophy. If you go to a heavily continental school then I agree, it's no different than any other liberal arts major. But in analytical philosophy you do indeed do all of that.

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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby FalafelWaffle » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:20 pm

albusdumbledore wrote:
FalafelWaffle wrote:
albusdumbledore wrote:
skoobily doobily wrote:"Is there really a degree that prepares you for law school?"

No. Law is a unique field of study, and beyond good reading comprehension, solid writing skill, and sufficient analytic ability, you don't need any other preparation for law school.


Are there degrees from which graduates have the propensity to succeed in law school?

Yes, but probably only inasmuch as those graduates would be inherently better at law school whether or not they had earned that specific degree.


I don't understand what these last 4 pages are about.


This would assume you can't gain better reading comprehension, writing skills, and analytic ability from one undergrad degree over another, which I think is patently false. Anyways, the answer to this thread is philosophy. If it is done right, it's heavily analytic (formal logic), forces you to read and understand ridiculously complex material, and will hone your writing skills at least as much as any other liberal arts major.


Meh, philosophy keeps getting touted around as THE major, but I'm not convinced. With the exception of the Deductive Logic course I took, I don't think upper level Philosophy courses have any more ridiculously complex material than a similar major. I don't think, for example, the Grotius I read for International Law (Poli Sci department) was any more difficult than, say, Kant in a similar level Philosophy course. Granted, one could argue that Grotius was a philosopher, but my point is that it's not limited to the Philosophy department. I'm working my way through a seminar on Chinese politics, and let me tell you, the reading isn't exactly a picnic. I highly doubt that the most prestigious American philosophy journal publishes articles that are any more difficult than the ones I'm reading in China Quarterly. Major elitism is kind of silly, especially when arguing for superiority within similar disciplines.


I don't doubt the difficulty comprehension wise, but I think philosophy is different in regards to the analytical skills that it requires. I'm sure that comprehension wise most other liberal arts majors (like English) read just as difficult material and write just as well, but with philosophy there are extra analytical steps involved. You've got to be able to analyze arguments, deal with syllogisms, find fallacies, etc. Analytically, I think philosophy is second only to math, and I don't think other liberal arts majors directly sharpen that area as well as philosophy.


I think if you're taking a bunch of classes in formal logic, then you're getting quite the intellectual workout (and believe me, Deductive Logic kicked my ass). With that, I agree. But I don't think there are any extra analytical steps in, say, reading Kant and about social movements in the China Journal. Especially if you're analyzing data and methodology, I don't see philosophy in general as superior in that regard.

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FalafelWaffle
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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby FalafelWaffle » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:21 pm

albusdumbledore wrote:
fatduck wrote:do you really do any of that beyond introductory logic courses? are you sure the rest isn't just reading foucault and masturbating?


Lol, that's why I included the caveat of "If it's done right". Foucault is generally considered a continental philosopher, which is much different than analytical philosophy. If you go to a heavily continental school then I agree, it's no different than any other liberal arts major. But in analytical philosophy you do indeed do all of that.


That's what I'm talking about. The philosophy department at the undergraduate level doesn't have a whole lot of formal logic courses.

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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby BrianGriffintheDog » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:24 pm

hah masturbate

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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby FalafelWaffle » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:25 pm

albusdumbledore wrote:
fatduck wrote:do you really do any of that beyond introductory logic courses? are you sure the rest isn't just reading foucault and masturbating?


Lol, that's why I included the caveat of "If it's done right". Foucault is generally considered a continental philosopher, which is much different than analytical philosophy. If you go to a heavily continental school then I agree, it's no different than any other liberal arts major. But in analytical philosophy you do indeed do all of that.


And I think there is a distinction. At my school you can concentrate in IR or comparative politics, which tend to attract smarter people. Plenty of dum-dums can coast in the American Politics concentration taking b.s. courses like U.S. Congress. There's formal logic, which is the equivalent of many mathematics and comp sci courses at my school, and then there's shit like ancient philosophy. I'm not knocking it, I'm just saying that there are subfields within every department. I don't think your average 20 year old reading Plato is any more intelligent or whatnot than the one reading about middle eastern politics.

Within the undergraduate major here, only one formal logic class is required.

With our Econ major, you can take a lot of game theory and advanced mathematics, or more on the business side. I don't think there is a general trend within these majors because there's so much room for individual concentration. Now, if a student took several formal logic classes, I'd probably agree that s/he may have worked on the relevant skills more than an average social sciences major, but I don't think you can extrapolate that into a general claim about which major is better.
Last edited by FalafelWaffle on Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby fatduck » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:27 pm

FalafelWaffle wrote:
albusdumbledore wrote:
fatduck wrote:do you really do any of that beyond introductory logic courses? are you sure the rest isn't just reading foucault and masturbating?


Lol, that's why I included the caveat of "If it's done right". Foucault is generally considered a continental philosopher, which is much different than analytical philosophy. If you go to a heavily continental school then I agree, it's no different than any other liberal arts major. But in analytical philosophy you do indeed do all of that.


That's what I'm talking about. The philosophy department at the undergraduate level doesn't have a whole lot of formal logic courses.

it depends on the program. at my school I suspect you'd have a hard time finding a professor who believes that foucault is a philosopher at all.

i still vote EE. if you can do EE you can do anything.

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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby Jack Smirks » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:30 pm

fatduck wrote:i still vote EE. if you can do EE you can do anything.

Except write above the level of an eighth grader or converse with an actual human being.

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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby BrianGriffintheDog » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:33 pm

naterj wrote:
fatduck wrote:i still vote EE. if you can do EE you can do anything.

Except write above the level of an eighth grader or converse with an actual human being.


especially w. opposite sex or same sex--whichever sex you find desirable

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albusdumbledore
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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby albusdumbledore » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:36 pm

FalafelWaffle wrote:
albusdumbledore wrote:
fatduck wrote:do you really do any of that beyond introductory logic courses? are you sure the rest isn't just reading foucault and masturbating?


Lol, that's why I included the caveat of "If it's done right". Foucault is generally considered a continental philosopher, which is much different than analytical philosophy. If you go to a heavily continental school then I agree, it's no different than any other liberal arts major. But in analytical philosophy you do indeed do all of that.


And I think there is a distinction. At my school you can concentrate in IR or comparative politics, which tend to attract smarter people. Plenty of dum-dums can coast in the American Politics concentration taking b.s. courses like U.S. Congress. There's formal logic, which is the equivalent of many mathematics and comp sci courses at my school, and then there's shit like ancient philosophy. I'm not knocking it, I'm just saying that there are subfields within every department. I don't think your average 20 year old reading Plato is any more intelligent or whatnot than the one reading about middle eastern politics.

Within the undergraduate major here, only one formal logic class is required.

With our Econ major, you can take a lot of game theory and advanced mathematics, or more on the business side. I don't think there is a general trend within these majors because there's so much room for individual concentration. Now, if a student took several formal logic classes, I'd probably agree that s/he may have worked on the relevant skills more than an average social sciences major, but I don't think you can extrapolate that into a general claim about which major is better.


I'll agree that Econ may be up there at the right school. I mean there is too much variance between departments to ever settle this ridiculous question anyways.

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fatduck
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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby fatduck » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:37 pm

naterj wrote:
fatduck wrote:i still vote EE. if you can do EE you can do anything.

Except write above the level of an eighth grader or converse with an actual human being.

i should have added a "non-asian" caveat

CreativityKing
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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby CreativityKing » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:57 pm

For some reason, I just read through this entire thread. I'll summarize what I've read thus far to save future readers the time:

1. OP: Hey guys, which major is best for law school?
2. Everyone: My major
3. Rman: Lib arts majors aren't very good
4. Cade McNown: Yes huh, they rock (at good schools)
5. Rman/Cade: Agree to disagree
6. LSHopeful: No, no, I'm pretty sure lib arts majors are no good
7. Cade: Yes huh, they rock (at good schools)
8. Everyone: Time to get this thread back on track - the best major is, of course, my major. OP? OP?!
9. CreativityKing: Time for me to add something helpful to the TLS community and summarize this thread.
10. Future readers: Why the heck did CreativityKing think this was a good idea?

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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby sab0tage » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:58 pm

Liberal arts degree from ASU ftw.

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Jack Smirks
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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby Jack Smirks » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:59 pm

CreativityKing wrote:For some reason, I just read through this entire thread. I'll summarize what I've read thus far to save future readers the time:

1. OP: Hey guys, which major is best for law school?
2. Everyone: My major
3. Rman: Lib arts majors aren't very good
4. Cade McNown: Yes huh, they rock (at good schools)
5. Rman/Cade: Agree to disagree
6. LSHopeful: No, no, I'm pretty sure lib arts majors are no good
7. Cade: Yes huh, they rock (at good schools)
8. Everyone: Time to get this thread back on track - the best major is, of course, my major. OP? OP?!
9. CreativityKing: Time for me to add something helpful to the TLS community and summarize this thread.
10. Future readers: Why the heck did CreativityKing think this was a good idea?

I don't even get an appearance?

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NZA
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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby NZA » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:00 am

Philosophy.

Because you can't have philosophy without sophism! :D It makes me sad that my choice to become a lawyer is one that would most likely have made Socrates despise me, but c'est la vie.

CreativityKing
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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby CreativityKing » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:03 am

naterj wrote:
CreativityKing wrote:For some reason, I just read through this entire thread. I'll summarize what I've read thus far to save future readers the time:

1. OP: Hey guys, which major is best for law school?
2. Everyone: My major
3. Rman: Lib arts majors aren't very good
4. Cade McNown: Yes huh, they rock (at good schools)
5. Rman/Cade: Agree to disagree
6. LSHopeful: No, no, I'm pretty sure lib arts majors are no good
7. Cade: Yes huh, they rock (at good schools)
7a. Naterj: Good LORD this argument is silly
8. Everyone: Time to get this thread back on track - the best major is, of course, my major. OP? OP?!
9. CreativityKing: Time for me to add something helpful to the TLS community and summarize this thread.
10. Future readers: Why the heck did CreativityKing think this was a good idea?

I don't even get an appearance?


Sorry about that. Couldn't think of a totally inoffensive/somewhat humourous way to reference religion.

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Cade McNown
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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby Cade McNown » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:08 am

CreativityKing wrote:For some reason, I just read through this entire thread. I'll summarize what I've read thus far to save future readers the time:

1. OP: Hey guys, which major is best for law school?
2. Everyone: My major
3. Rman: Lib arts majors aren't very good
4. Cade McNown: Yes huh, they rock (at good schools)
5. Rman/Cade: Agree to disagree
6. LSHopeful: No, no, I'm pretty sure lib arts majors are no good
7. Cade: Yes huh, they rock (at good schools)
8. Everyone: Time to get this thread back on track - the best major is, of course, my major. OP? OP?!
9. CreativityKing: Time for me to add something helpful to the TLS community and summarize this thread.
10. Future readers: Why the heck did CreativityKing think this was a good idea?


Applause.

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Burke21
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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby Burke21 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:15 am

NZA wrote:Philosophy.

Because you can't have philosophy without sophism! :D It makes me sad that my choice to become a lawyer is one that would most likely have made Socrates despise me, but c'est la vie.



They were considered the first lawyers. Plus, Thrasymachus nailed the definition of justice, haha.

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holdencaulfield
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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby holdencaulfield » Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:23 pm

CreativityKing wrote:For some reason, I just read through this entire thread. I'll summarize what I've read thus far to save future readers the time:

1. OP: Hey guys, which major is best for law school?
2. Everyone: My major
3. Rman: Lib arts majors aren't very good
4. Cade McNown: Yes huh, they rock (at good schools)
5. Rman/Cade: Agree to disagree
6. LSHopeful: No, no, I'm pretty sure lib arts majors are no good
7. Cade: Yes huh, they rock (at good schools)
8. Everyone: Time to get this thread back on track - the best major is, of course, my major. OP? OP?!
9. CreativityKing: Time for me to add something helpful to the TLS community and summarize this thread.
10. Future readers: Why the heck did CreativityKing think this was a good idea?




This is awesome

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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby cmraider » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:06 pm

I hate to derail this thread by answering the OP's question, but...

I'm not in law school, but I had a few UG profs who were lawyers (a couple of whom still practiced) say that my journalism major would be useful in law school because a lot of LS students can't write for dick during their 1L year. I'm not saying it's OMG THE ABSOLUTE BEST, but I can see where it might be helpful. Also, I would venture to guess that as a journalism major, I did more writing than philosophy/English/history majors at my school, although the writing was different from what I expect it to be in LS (less stuffy, shorter, more to the point, etc.).

I also agree with this comment:
FalafelWaffle wrote:I hate English majors mostly because of the bullshit myth that keeps getting propagated about them being superior writers. You're going to have just as many good to excellent writers in ANY humanities or social science major, if the program is any good.

I knew so many dumb English majors who would attempt to disguise their ignorance by suggesting people "didn't get it," when in fact I'm pretty sure they were the ones not getting it.

Now, if we're talking on what majors are better for getting you into law school, I would think you have a better (if only slightly) chance at admission if you are not a philosophy/English/history/political science major since the applicant pool is flooded with those.

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Is there really a degree that prepares your for law school?

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:12 pm

albusdumbledore wrote:
skoobily doobily wrote:"Is there really a degree that prepares you for law school?"

No. Law is a unique field of study, and beyond good reading comprehension, solid writing skill, and sufficient analytic ability, you don't need any other preparation for law school.


Are there degrees from which graduates have the propensity to succeed in law school?

Yes, but probably only inasmuch as those graduates would be inherently better at law school whether or not they had earned that specific degree.


I don't understand what these last 4 pages are about.


This would assume you can't gain better reading comprehension, writing skills, and analytic ability from one undergrad degree over another, which I think is patently false. Anyways, the answer to this thread is philosophy. If it is done right, it's heavily analytic (formal logic), forces you to read and understand ridiculously complex material, and will hone your writing skills at least as much as any other liberal arts major.

Misinterpretation.

The people with the "best" reading comprehension don't always get the highest grades, those are thresholds you need to succeed, not correlations. If you major in Philosophy and all the sudden you're able to enjoy reading The Critique of Pure Reason, it doesn't mean you're gaining an edge in LS, because the RC of the law itself is incredibly not that difficult.




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