Reverse Gunnerism

(Please Ask Questions and Answer Questions)
User avatar
crumpetsandtea
Posts: 7156
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:57 pm

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby crumpetsandtea » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:02 pm

0L here, but I'd agree with vamedic. It's all about respect--to both your peers and your professor. You have a lot of material to cover in a short amount of time, so if you have a question that doesn't relate to your fundamental understanding of the topic being covered it doesn't make sense to stall the entire class (ie: with a random hypothetical that doesn't necessarily have to do with the topic on hand). I think it'd be a better use of everyone's time for you to go to office hours and ask then (plus it gives you an excuse to get one on one time with the professor, which is always nice).

User avatar
holdencaulfield
Posts: 478
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:12 pm

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby holdencaulfield » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:43 am

kwais wrote:I am a 0L but... When people talk about "gunners" on here it really does sound like thinly veiled jealousy that they themselves don't have the stones to ask a question for fear of being labeled a gunner. Get over it.




lol

User avatar
Kilpatrick
Posts: 1073
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:06 am

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby Kilpatrick » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:56 am

0Ls cannot really understand what law school gunners are like. They're unlike anything I've ever witnessed. It's not just asking questions or answering things when the professor asks the class. It is raising your hand multiple times a day EVERY day and then saying the stupidest shit ever. It's not just participating. We're not jealous of them. These people are really really annoying and they waste everybody's time.

User avatar
well-hello-there
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:38 pm

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby well-hello-there » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:00 am

Cupidity wrote:Whatever they have to say is less important than what the professor could be saying instead.

/thread

User avatar
Cupidity
Posts: 2214
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:21 pm

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby Cupidity » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:10 am

kwais wrote:I don't give a flying shit what my peers think about that. Get over it.


The fun thing about practicing law, there is a direct correlation between "what [your] peers think about [you]" and how much $$/Prestige you will have. Your peers have connections and knowledge that you do not, you need them to like you. It's called networking. Welcome to the real world.
Last edited by Cupidity on Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Cupidity
Posts: 2214
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:21 pm

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby Cupidity » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:11 am

Our gunner spoke 12 times today in one class. Once for over two minutes.

User avatar
Cupidity
Posts: 2214
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:21 pm

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby Cupidity » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:13 am

Lawquacious wrote:
Cupidity wrote:
dtwvan wrote:to look down on someone for taking their education into their hands by exploring their thoughts because they are paying thousands upon thousand of dollars is absurd.


I don't look down on them for taking their education into their hands, I look down on them for taking MY EDUCATION into their hands.

Hey, if you want to use 1/87 of the available discussion time per class to know how the RAP would apply in some obscure hypothetical, go for it. But the second you hit 2/87, that's my time you are interfering with.

Whatever they have to say is less important than what the professor could be saying instead.




I don't think you addressed the counterpoint to this common notion that a gunner is in some way stealing money or time from other students by talking a lot. I'm not trying to defend hyper-competitive behavior or the hogging of class time, but I think there is a legitimate critique that when people are unwilling to answer questions (perhaps out of concern for being labeled a gunner or otherwise looking bad) they may be detracting from the quality of the class experience at least as much as the person who may be stepping up to answer questions too frequently in some cases. Harsh critique of those who talk a lot because they are perceived as taking something from others may discourage people generally from participating IMO.

Regarding this idea that people are taking your education away from you in some way when they participate a lot, I tend to think that the professor is the one responsible if he or she is not redirecting the question or limiting potentially derailing comments or questions. I think a good professor should be able to do that without too much trouble. In terms of your theory that the person talking more than 1/87 of the allotted student time is stealing something from you (implied if not stated directly), I have a suspicion that is not a theory that would hold in court. :) I don't mean to be callous though; I do understand where you're coming from, but I think the way you are breaking it down is making artificial distinctions (and I question also whether this attitude makes class experiences less enjoyable for you because you are concerned about whether someone will steal YOUR time).

I'd say the basic idea of this thread is to question the definition of 'gunner' (which now seems to pretty much just mean someone who participates a lot or too much in class, although I think perhaps it initially meant someone who had a hyper-competitive attitude), and to question whether the hatred or vocal dislike of those who talk a lot in class can itself be detrimental to the quality of class discussion.

"Gunner" implies trying to shoot someone or something down as far as I can tell, and I think it originally implied trying to shoot others down through competition. Now, with it pretty much applying to people who talk a lot in class- perhaps inappropriately at times- and who are considered uncool either because of or in spite of this, it seems that the phrase maybe simply refers to someone who is shooting down questions in class by answering everything or at least shooting out a lot of stuff from their mouth lol. I suppose I find it a somewhat interesting and complex (diminutive) concept and label, which I am trying to understand better, and which I am also seeking to critique insofar as the labeling of others in this way may have certain negative consequences in itself.

One last thing: I think I was probably out of line for stating 'gun much?' (edited out) in response to your '/thread' comment, so I apologize for that. I do kind of question though if some of the people who are most critical of those who talk a lot in class as being 'gunners' are often in fact themselves 'gunners' in many cases insofar as the term does still have some connection to being very competitive (where being critical of others can often be a component of being hyper-competitive I imagine. However, you may have fully legitimate gripes about the 'gunners' you have encountered and you may not have a hyper-competitive attitude, so I don't mean to imply otherwise).


And who the hell writes like this on an internet forum?

User avatar
well-hello-there
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:38 pm

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby well-hello-there » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:22 am

Cupidity wrote:Our gunner spoke 12 times today in one class. Once for over two minutes.

that's some bowl-shit there....i'll beat people's asses in the parking lot.

kublaikahn
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:47 am

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby kublaikahn » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:44 am

The Aswan dam built across the Nile river was not only a scientific wonder, but also considered by many to be the eighth wonder of the world. Only the second man made object visible from space, and forming Lake Nassar, the earthen dam redirected water to the rich farmland along the Nile....

My point, I'm getting to that, professor...

Where was I?...

Oh, I heart gunners. You know the gunner on day one. When the professor goes around the room and asks each student's name, he says it, then spells it.

User avatar
Cupidity
Posts: 2214
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:21 pm

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby Cupidity » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:46 am

kublaikahn wrote:The Aswan dam built across the Nile river was not only a scientific wonder, but also considered by many to be the eighth wonder of the world. Only the second man made object visible from space, and forming Lake Nassar, the earthen dam redirected water to the rich farmland along the Nile....

My point, I'm getting to that, professor...

Where was I?...

Oh, I heart gunners. You know the gunner on day one. When the professor goes around the room and asks each student's name, he says it, then spells it.


I knew ours from the mock class on the admitted students day.

Army2Law
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:35 pm

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby Army2Law » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:49 am

Cupidity wrote:
kublaikahn wrote:The Aswan dam built across the Nile river was not only a scientific wonder, but also considered by many to be the eighth wonder of the world. Only the second man made object visible from space, and forming Lake Nassar, the earthen dam redirected water to the rich farmland along the Nile....

My point, I'm getting to that, professor...

Where was I?...

Oh, I heart gunners. You know the gunner on day one. When the professor goes around the room and asks each student's name, he says it, then spells it.


I knew ours from the mock class on the admitted students day.


titcr

kublaikahn
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:47 am

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby kublaikahn » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:50 am

Cupidity wrote:
kublaikahn wrote:The Aswan dam built across the Nile river was not only a scientific wonder, but also considered by many to be the eighth wonder of the world. Only the second man made object visible from space, and forming Lake Nassar, the earthen dam redirected water to the rich farmland along the Nile....

My point, I'm getting to that, professor...

Where was I?...

Oh, I heart gunners. You know the gunner on day one. When the professor goes around the room and asks each student's name, he says it, then spells it.


I knew ours from the mock class on the admitted students day.


He also begins his diatribes with a statement like, "I may be getting ahead of myself but..."

HBK
Posts: 493
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:29 pm

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby HBK » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:54 am

I've noticed this phenomenon as well. I think it's a product of the gunners getting their grades back and realizing they aren't nearly as smart as they thought they were.

User avatar
fatduck
Posts: 4186
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby fatduck » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:55 am

I personally think gunners in science/engineering are worse than gunners in law school.

Gunners in law school are just assholes who think they're smarter than everyone, waste the time of people who actually want to learn from the professor, and will probably end up median anyway.

Gunners in math class are Rainmen who could do vector calculus at birth, but still choose to waste the time of people who are in dire need of instruction by asking questions about shit that won't even be on the final, and then they ace the final and you get a C+.

HBK
Posts: 493
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:29 pm

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby HBK » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:07 am

It's funny that all these 0Ls are posting on a topic about second semester of 1L year.

Presuming you know something when you have no clue - 1st sign of a born gunner. (One of the 0Ls actually made some sense)

As far as gunners paying thousands of dollars for education- If I have a question regarding the lecture or the reading, I will ask the professor after class. Maybe I'm stupid and don't get it, I don't want to waste everyone else's time because I don't get the material.

Additionally, professors generally have both emails and office hours. If you have a question or want to discuss retarded hypotheticals, or think the professor cares about your uber republican/democratic/libertarian take on a case, communicate outside of class and don't waste lecture time.

I may be a dick, but if I think I've made a keen distinction on the law or between cases, I will discuss it after class merely because I don't want my classmates getting the benefit of my close reading.

User avatar
fatduck
Posts: 4186
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby fatduck » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:09 am

fatduck wrote:Gunners in law school are just assholes who think they're smarter than everyone, waste the time of people who actually want to learn from the professor, and will probably end up median anyway.


HBK wrote:It's funny that all these 0Ls are posting on a topic about second semester of 1L year.

Presuming you know something when you have no clue - 1st sign of a born gunner.


Natural-born gunner here. Thanks for the heads-up.

User avatar
UnitarySpace
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:18 am

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby UnitarySpace » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:26 am

Gunning is annoying. What's equally annoying(?), though, is the minute of awkward silence following a professor's question when the whole class is afraid to answer for fear that they'll be mistaken for a gunner. I applaud gunners for filling up those silences with whatever nonsense they have to say.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby 09042014 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:41 am

My section gunner won me over with hilarious jokes.

User avatar
holdencaulfield
Posts: 478
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:12 pm

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby holdencaulfield » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:41 am

Cupidity wrote:
And who the hell writes like this on an internet forum?



I don't know, but I feel compelled to say that the idea of revese gunnerism is dumb. I would counter the idea more thoroughly, but I really don't care enough.

kublaikahn
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:47 am

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby kublaikahn » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:07 pm

fatduck wrote:I personally think gunners in science/engineering are worse than gunners in law school.

Gunners in law school are just assholes who think they're smarter than everyone, waste the time of people who actually want to learn from the professor, and will probably end up median anyway.

Gunners in math class are Rainmen who could do vector calculus at birth, but still choose to waste the time of people who are in dire need of instruction by asking questions about shit that won't even be on the final, and then they ace the final and you get a C+.



This. Science gunners always see class as some sort of beta male showdown with the professor about how best to write an equation for the surface area of his coffee mug.

YEM
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:50 am

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby YEM » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:26 pm

Cupidity wrote: And who the hell writes like this on an internet forum?


A gunner.


The earlier point about the fact that gunners waste everybody's time is key. Only one thing matters in class - what the professor says, and particularly in prepared remarks. If it's important enough for the professor to have it prepared ahead of time, you're going to see that concept/rule/exception later, probably on the final in some form or another.

Anything that keeps a professor from getting to the important stuff is a waste of time.

Nothing else in class matters - not gunner comments or flubbed cold call answers or even your class prep.

It's like most of life, shut your mouth and listen. To the 0Ls who are uncomfortable with classroom silence, get over it - you gain nothing by adding commentary in class. Legitimate questions are one thing, but sharing your insight on proximate cause is not worth the sound of your voice. (Even then, legit questions are probably better saved for office hours.)

We're spending a ton of money to perform well enough on finals to eventually get a good job. Which means that gunners are also a huge waste of money.

User avatar
UnitarySpace
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:18 am

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby UnitarySpace » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:05 pm

If your prof. doesn't get to his or her prepared remarks, then NOBODY HEARS THEM.

Also LOL if you think your think you're paying money to listen to your professor spew *** about what they think the law should be. You care about what your prof says to the extent that it might help you get in your prof's head for the exam. The only people that benefit are those who are astute enough to figure that out. And that can't be everybody or else there's no actual advantage.

edit: don't get me wrong. i hate gunners because they're annoying in a way that i couldn't understand before law school. but that's probably the only legitimate reason to hate them.

YEM
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:50 am

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby YEM » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:11 pm

UnitarySpace wrote:Also LOL if you think your think you're paying money to listen to your professor spew *** about what they think the law should be. You care about what your prof says to the extent that it might help you get in your prof's head for the exam.


Redundant.

The final is a test of how well you understand your professor's opinion (aka, "spewed sh@%") on whatever (s)he decides to test you on.

If your Torts prof loves himself some Cardozo, you'd better know Benji forwards and back.

These are missable things if some pompous gunner is pontificating about his ample experience as a 24 year old paralegal.

User avatar
UnitarySpace
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:18 am

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby UnitarySpace » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:18 pm

So you don't like gunners because they disadvantage people with less than great focus. That's fine.

rose711
Posts: 287
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:57 pm

Re: Reverse Gunnerism

Postby rose711 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:25 pm

This video is on topic here. I think you guys will like it - if you've seen this already I'll delete the link.

F*** You by GWU Law revue




Return to “Law School FAQ”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest