Lay prestige vs sports prestige

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dr123
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby dr123 » Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:06 am

lisjjen wrote:These things obviously don't do the work for you. Obviously. But lay prestige gives you an edge. I was just wondering if sports prestige would make you more interesting, give you something to talk about, make you more memorable. Something along those lines.


If you need sports prestige for something to talk about you're probably not that interesting or memorable, imo

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usuaggie
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby usuaggie » Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:10 am

i've talked to lawyers who had assumed oregon was ranked higher than it is just because they heard so much about the school during the football season.

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beachbum
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby beachbum » Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:12 am

I dunno guys, I think sports prestige is more than enough to make one school better than another.

r6_philly
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby r6_philly » Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:16 am

dr123 wrote:
lisjjen wrote:These things obviously don't do the work for you. Obviously. But lay prestige gives you an edge. I was just wondering if sports prestige would make you more interesting, give you something to talk about, make you more memorable. Something along those lines.


If you need sports prestige for something to talk about you're probably not that interesting or memorable, imo


The country is talking about Stanford football quite a bit.

ETA women's bball.

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lisjjen
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby lisjjen » Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:32 am

dr123 wrote:
lisjjen wrote:These things obviously don't do the work for you. Obviously. But lay prestige gives you an edge. I was just wondering if sports prestige would make you more interesting, give you something to talk about, make you more memorable. Something along those lines.


If you need sports prestige for something to talk about you're probably not that interesting or memorable, imo


Missing the point. Just. Missing the point.

This logic = Formula 1 cars must not perform very well because their drivers want to tune their engines and put carbon fiber performance kits on them.

Capitol A
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby Capitol A » Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:37 pm

I actually think sports prestige does have some impact on schools' general lay prestige. Of course undergrad prestige has little to do with law school prestige, and lay prestige is all but irrelavant to securing gainful employment...That being said, take for example Notre Dame and/or Duke; the general public is highly aware of these schools' acadmeic excellence. Why? because the people on TV are constantly talking about how impressive it is that they are able to compete on the level that they do (not so much Notre Dame football anymore) while maintaining high standards of academic excellence. Meanwhile, schools like Vanderbilt, UVA, W&M, and many others do not perform well enough in sports to really be a topic of discussion on TV. So, the general public outside of their close geographic proximity has no idea that they are strong academic institutions. Here in Phoenix, I would say that the majority of people think of UVA as pretty much equivelant to ASU.

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cmraider
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby cmraider » Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:57 pm

Fred_McGriff wrote:Image

T12


Let's imagine for a minute that USNWR ranked college sports programs. Just in the same way they rank medical, business and law schools, assume they treated college sports like a professional program with factors such as tradition, NFL/NBA placement, quality of coaching staff, on-field performance, etc. serving as the metrics. If you consider the only sports which most people care about (football, men's basketball and, to a lesser extent, women's basketball), who would be the T14 of college sports?

Edit: Forgot NFL wasn't the only pro sports league
Last edited by cmraider on Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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cmraider
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby cmraider » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:11 pm

My T14 would be, in no particular order:

1. Texas
2. Florida
3. USC
4. Ohio St
5. Oklahoma
6. Alabama
7. LSU
8. Virginia Tech
9. Wisconsin
10. Auburn
11. Pittsburgh
12. Miami
13. UNC
14. Michigan

Just missed:
Oregon, Miami, Florida St, Kansas, Duke, BYU

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Flips88
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby Flips88 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:12 pm

cmraider wrote:Let's imagine for a minute that USNWR ranked college sports programs. Just in the same way they rank medical, business and law schools, assume they treated college sports like a professional program with factors such as tradition, NFL placement, quality of coaching staff, on-field performance, etc. serving as the metrics. If you consider the only sports which most people care about (football, men's basketball and, to a lesser extent, women's basketball), who would be the T14 of college sports?


Not going to rank in order but Oklahoma, Texas, 'Bama, Florida, USC, LSU, Ohio State (primarily football schools with some basketball crossover ) Duke, North Carolina, UCLA, Kansas (primarily Basketball powerhouses). So that's 11. Maybe Notre Dame and Michigan (even though they've sucked as of late in football). Then I don't know Standford? Wisconsin? Miami?

so in no particular order

1.OU
2. Texas
3. Bama
4. Florida
5. USC
6. LSU
7. Ohio State
8. Duke
9. North Carolina
10. UCLA
11. Kansas
12. Notre Dame
13. Michigan
14. Wisconsin/Stanford/Miami

09042014
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby 09042014 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:14 pm

"Cornell Commencement address? Sorry but Tracy Jordan doesn't do safety schools." - Tracy Jordan

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Flips88
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby Flips88 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:14 pm

cmraider wrote:My T14 would be, in no particular order:

1. Texas
2. Florida
3. USC
4. Ohio St
5. Oklahoma
6. Alabama
7. LSU
8. Virginia Tech
9. Wisconsin
10. Auburn
11. Pittsburgh
12. Miami
13. UNC
14. Michigan

Just missed:
Oregon, Miami, Florida St, Kansas, Duke, BYU

Duke and Kansas' basketball prowess >>>>>>anything going on at Pitt or Va Tech

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tallboone
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby tallboone » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:21 pm

Sorry, but you can't leave UCLA out of this. Most NCAA championships of any college sports program, most NCCAB titles, and they used to be good a football consistently until this millenium.

t-14 in no order:

t-14 College Sports
UCLA
USC
Ohio State
Michigan
Florida
Florida St.
LSU
Texas
Oklahoma
Notre Dame
Duke
North Carolina
University of Miami
Kansas

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cmraider
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby cmraider » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:22 pm

Flips88 wrote:
cmraider wrote:My T14 would be, in no particular order:

1. Texas
2. Florida
3. USC
4. Ohio St
5. Oklahoma
6. Alabama
7. LSU
8. Virginia Tech
9. Wisconsin
10. Auburn
11. Pittsburgh
12. Miami
13. UNC
14. Michigan

Just missed:
Oregon, Miami, Florida St, Kansas, Duke, BYU

Duke and Kansas' basketball prowess >>>>>>anything going on at Pitt or Va Tech


I guess it just depends on how much weight you put in each sport. I followed the line of reasoning that Pitt is usually at the top of their conference in football and basketball, with their Bball program perennially in the top-10 nationally. Va Tech is a top-10 fball team most years and the bball team is a 20-win squad most years. Also, I put a little more stock in fball than men's bball, just because fball>bball in $$$ and popularity. But I concede it's a debatable list. How much does Kansas' and Duke's top-5 bball programs make up for their typically-last-in-conference fball programs?

Capitol A
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby Capitol A » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:24 pm

cmraider wrote:
Fred_McGriff wrote:Image

T12


Let's imagine for a minute that USNWR ranked college sports programs. Just in the same way they rank medical, business and law schools, assume they treated college sports like a professional program with factors such as tradition, NFL/NBA placement, quality of coaching staff, on-field performance, etc. serving as the metrics. If you consider the only sports which most people care about (football, men's basketball and, to a lesser extent, women's basketball), who would be the T14 of college sports?

Edit: Forgot NFL wasn't the only pro sports league

Does their program get dinged for athlete time in prison and/or arrests? then VaTech would definitely be out of the t20.

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Flips88
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby Flips88 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:29 pm

At OU, in 2008, we had the Heisman winner and the men's and women's basketball players of the year (Blake Griffin and Courtney Paris). Griffin and Bradford were both #1 draft picks. Sam already received the Offensive Rookie of the Year and Blake is already on the All-Star team and will surely win Rookie of the Year. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'

Oh and we were the first school to have 3 of the top 4 NFL draft picks.

ETA: Pitt Football top of their conference. Big East, lolz. They haven't had a memorable player since Larry Fitzgerald.

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cmraider
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby cmraider » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:42 pm

Flips88 wrote:ETA: Pitt Football top of their conference. Big East, lolz. They haven't had a memorable player since Larry Fitzgerald.


LeSean McCoy and Darrelle Revis might take offense to this.

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Flips88
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby Flips88 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:43 pm

cmraider wrote:
Flips88 wrote:ETA: Pitt Football top of their conference. Big East, lolz. They haven't had a memorable player since Larry Fitzgerald.


LeSean McCoy and Darrelle Revis might take offense to this.

Who?

r6_philly
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby r6_philly » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:47 pm

Flips88 wrote:
cmraider wrote:
Flips88 wrote:ETA: Pitt Football top of their conference. Big East, lolz. They haven't had a memorable player since Larry Fitzgerald.


LeSean McCoy and Darrelle Revis might take offense to this.

Who?


Westbrook+

jamie9248922
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby jamie9248922 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:52 pm

Sports prestige can definitely take a school to another level...I present the "Flutie effect" at Boston College. Before Flutie's Hail Mary and Heisman BC was little more than a commuter school with little to no reputation...In 25 years it has become and International institution with a Top 30 undergrad program a Top 30 Law School and many other highly regarded graduate schools....Sports can definitely help in bringing a school's lay prestige up

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Flips88
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby Flips88 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:58 pm

jamie9248922 wrote:Sports prestige can definitely take a school to another level...I present the "Flutie effect" at Boston College. Before Flutie's Hail Mary and Heisman BC was little more than a commuter school with little to no reputation...In 25 years it has become and International institution with a Top 30 undergrad program a Top 30 Law School and many other highly regarded graduate schools....Sports can definitely help in bringing a school's lay prestige up

There's no way you can attribute this to football.

jamie9248922
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby jamie9248922 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:18 pm

Flips88 wrote:
jamie9248922 wrote:Sports prestige can definitely take a school to another level...I present the "Flutie effect" at Boston College. Before Flutie's Hail Mary and Heisman BC was little more than a commuter school with little to no reputation...In 25 years it has become and International institution with a Top 30 undergrad program a Top 30 Law School and many other highly regarded graduate schools....Sports can definitely help in bringing a school's lay prestige up

There's no way you can attribute this to football.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flutie_Effect

It has been debated...but it was a factor in putting Boston College in many people's minds

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beachbum
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby beachbum » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:45 pm

There are college sports other than football and men's basketball? Since when?

sparty99
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby sparty99 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:06 pm

I definitely believe sports prestige plays a factor. I went to Michigan State University which is a good, public university that has a couple of "great programs." The school doesn't have the "prestige" that Michigan has, but when I tell people I went to MSU, they at least know it's a quality school.

Some people think MSU is great, because we are a top tier basketball school and people know our football team because we produce NFL players and play premiere programs like Notre Dame and Michigan. We are also part of the "Big 10," which is known for strong academics and sports programs. If sports prestige didn't play a factor, then it makes no sense that our alumni funding and applications increase to the university when we go to the Final Four or win a National Championship.

Whether I'm applying for jobs in the legal field, consulting, or Target, the hiring manager will know of Michigan State, regardless of whether a certain program is ranked less than Washington University (St. Louis), etc. This is an advantage that sports prestige programs have over those "coveted" universities.

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blazinswordofjustice
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby blazinswordofjustice » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:05 pm

jamie9248922 wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flutie_Effect

It has been debated...but it was a factor in putting Boston College in many people's minds


Interesting...i agree though, besides increasing a school's national reputation and image in peoples minds, a good athletic program can bring in a LOT of money for a school, a school like USC/texas/LSU sells a lot of merchandise/tickets/etc...plus increases donations by having a good athletic program...

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Flips88
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Re: Lay prestige vs sports prestige

Postby Flips88 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:13 pm

blazinswordofjustice wrote:
jamie9248922 wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flutie_Effect

It has been debated...but it was a factor in putting Boston College in many people's minds


Interesting...i agree though, besides increasing a school's national reputation and image in peoples minds, a good athletic program can bring in a LOT of money for a school, a school like USC/texas/LSU sells a lot of merchandise/tickets/etc...plus increases donations by having a good athletic program...

The athletic department is on a separate budget, so revenue stays within that department for the most part. I guess the best hope is that your NFL players donate to the university scholarship fund...




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