Starting your own firm...

(Please Ask Questions and Answer Questions)
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Stringer Bell
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby Stringer Bell » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:03 pm

franklin14 wrote:I don't think any deli owners are offended... It is probably harder to start a deli. Deli loans require the ability to show that you can pay them back and basic a understanding of finance and accounting. You also have to know how to make a sandwhich, whereas a lawyer doesn't actually have to know how to practice law before beginning.


This is just dumb even beyond Arejay's valid point of the differences between getting a crappy sandwich and a crappy attorney. The guvmnet gives you a blank check to pursue a certification to practice law (which I don't like, but that's another issue). You don't get a blank check to advertise, hire administrative staff, rent office space, etc.

Outside of Health Inspector stuff, which isn't close to the same level as getting a law degree and passing the bar, there is no certification necessary to sell sandwiches. You just need the capital to get it started.

Now, I think it is beyond stupid that the US government will hand anyone a 250k blank check to attend Cooley, but won't do the same for someone smart to open up a Subway. But again, that's another issue.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:09 pm

drummerboy wrote:to those in debt(like myself) to those not getting into T14 (like myself) We can only hope for the best. An uphill battle awaits us all. Lets at least try to go into this "purgatory" of a profession with the most postive attitude as possible. Agreed?


your schtick is becoming unbearable. If you can't get into a decent law school or a full ride, don't go, or you'll destroy your financial life at 23 yrs old.

drummerboy
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby drummerboy » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:10 pm

its almost lunch time and all this talk about sandwiches is making me hungry

drummerboy
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby drummerboy » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:15 pm

patriot you made an interesting point. are you saying that getting a full ride is the best path. so at what level of school is attending at a full ride most advisable? This is a very important question. It may be the best solution to our problem

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rman1201
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby rman1201 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:17 pm

The costs of starting a firm are overstated here. In the beginning it is feasible to operate from home with a PO Box for all business correspondance and you can usually find all legal forms online for a reasonable price. It would still be an endeavor with enormous likelihood to fail, out of school with no experience the most you could hope for is the bottom of shitlaw (DUI, Small Divorces, Misdemeanors, Traffic(?)) and you'd face immense competition as saturation is an overstatement of the state of these fields.

And no, running a law firm is not comparable to running a deli.

drummerboy
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby drummerboy » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:22 pm

ok lets digress for a moment. at what ranking level would you attend with $$$ offer even if you you get into a higher ranked school at full ride.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:25 pm

drummerboy wrote:patriot you made an interesting point. are you saying that getting a full ride is the best path. so at what level of school is attending at a full ride most advisable? This is a very important question. It may be the best solution to our problem

if you can't get into a good school, at least a full ride lets you come out without being in an impossible hole. 200k in debt without a job or a low paying job is a killer no matter where you attend. No debt and no job is at least not that big of a deal. If the best school you can get into is ranked below the top 20-30 schools, than full ride or cheap in state tuition is your best bet.

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rman1201
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby rman1201 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:25 pm

drummerboy wrote:ok lets digress for a moment. at what ranking level would you attend with $$$ offer even if you you get into a higher ranked school at full ride.


You can't just ask vague questions like that and hope for a serious answer.
It depends on the school(s), the location, target market/job, how much $$$, etc.

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:27 pm

drummerboy wrote:to those in debt(like myself) to those not getting into T14 (like myself) We can only hope for the best. An uphill battle awaits us all. Lets at least try to go into this "purgatory" of a profession with the most postive attitude as possible. Agreed?

Gongrats man! You just won thickest-skull of the week award!!

drummerboy wrote:ok lets digress for a moment. at what ranking level would you attend with $$$ offer even if you you get into a higher ranked school at full ride.

If you're not going for T-14 it should be for good money (the lower down the higher the scholly). If you want to go to a low T1 and below, I would say full ride or VERY cheap, ONLY if it is known as have a specific amount of local prestige in an area you want to work, aka, no T4's under any circumstances.

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rman1201
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby rman1201 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:29 pm

delBarco wrote:If you're not going for T-14 it should be for good money (the lower down the higher the scholly). If you want to go to a low T1 and below, I would say full ride or VERY cheap, ONLY if it is known as have a specific amount of local prestige in an area you want to work, aka, no T4's under any circumstances.


But what about T3s????

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:30 pm

and fwiw, I can't find the study (I just tried), but the fail rate of startup law firms is between 75-80%.

franklin14
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby franklin14 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:31 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
franklin14 wrote:I don't think any deli owners are offended... It is probably harder to start a deli. Deli loans require the ability to show that you can pay them back and basic a understanding of finance and accounting. You also have to know how to make a sandwhich, whereas a lawyer doesn't actually have to know how to practice law before beginning.


This is just dumb even beyond Arejay's valid point of the differences between getting a crappy sandwich and a crappy attorney. The guvmnet gives you a blank check to pursue a certification to practice law (which I don't like, but that's another issue). You don't get a blank check to advertise, hire administrative staff, rent office space, etc.

Outside of Health Inspector stuff, which isn't close to the same level as getting a law degree and passing the bar, there is no certification necessary to sell sandwiches. You just need the capital to get it started.

Now, I think it is beyond stupid that the US government will hand anyone a 250k blank check to attend Cooley, but won't do the same for someone smart to open up a Subway. But again, that's another issue.


I know man, no actual offense intended. I was just joking. I read these forums because I plan on attending LS in the fall, so I have some appreciation for the value and difficulty of the degree.

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rman1201
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby rman1201 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:31 pm

delBarco wrote:and fwiw, I can't find the study (I just tried), but the fail rate of startup law firms is between 75-80%.


Isn't that better than the rate for all small businesses in general?

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:32 pm

rman1201 wrote:
delBarco wrote:If you're not going for T-14 it should be for good money (the lower down the higher the scholly). If you want to go to a low T1 and below, I would say full ride or VERY cheap, ONLY if it is known as have a specific amount of local prestige in an area you want to work, aka, no T4's under any circumstances.


But what about T3s????

If you've wanted to be a south Dakota lawyer your whole life and you get a full ride to the University of South Dakota. Then dammit son, go to South Dakota.

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:34 pm

rman1201 wrote:
delBarco wrote:and fwiw, I can't find the study (I just tried), but the fail rate of startup law firms is between 75-80%.


Isn't that better than the rate for all small businesses in general?

I don't know, but you're looking at a 1/4 to 1/5 chance of NOT ending up financially ruined for the rest of your life, after wasting 4+ years no less. What kind of retard would take this gamble???

drummerboy
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby drummerboy » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:36 pm

thick skull award. thanks. i do have a pretty thick head. anyway my specific choices are UM, Stetson, waiting on FSU UF and FIU. In the event that I dont retake, and dont get into UF FSU would you consider FIU(even without a scholly its cheap) and its T4. I have no problem staying in Miami. This maybe my ultimate decision once the cycle comes to and end. What are your thoughts?

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lawfreak
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby lawfreak » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:38 pm

MrKappus wrote:
UCSD1984 wrote:Why doesn't anyone on these forums discuss this possibility if they can't find a job or their BigLaw dreams are crushed? Usually starting your own firm dictates "crap" work, or whatever one would refer to it as (Civil, DUIs, Divorce, etc.). Just curious to know what all the elitists on this loud-ass forum think about it. Serious topic, serious question.


This is like asking "Why don't people routinely stage their own successful missions to the Moon?" The answer is "Because it's extremely difficult to maintain a reliable client-base, let alone build one." You sound like a 20 year-old. Stop asking stupid questions.

Smart ass!!!!

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:40 pm

drummerboy wrote:thick skull award. thanks. i do have a pretty thick head. anyway my specific choices are UM, Stetson, waiting on FSU UF and FIU. In the event that I dont retake, and dont get into UF FSU would you consider FIU(even without a scholly its cheap) and its T4. I have no problem staying in Miami. This maybe my ultimate decision once the cycle comes to and end. What are your thoughts?

I'm from Florida, and would love to tell you about exactly how awful the legal market is right now coming out of Florida law schools. Honestly one of the worst in the nation.
Edit: I would consider FIU with a full scholly, a 40 thousand dollar per year stipend, and a car.

drummerboy
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby drummerboy » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:49 pm

ok what law schools in what states give a better option than Fl if youre willing to start up elsewhere? I really want to know. Ill go to most reasonable cities. Please be serious.Thanks

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lawfreak
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby lawfreak » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:52 pm

MrPapagiorgio wrote:
drummerboy wrote:correct but im not averse to risk. it nourishes me


Just when I started to change my mind about you, you go and say something like that. :roll:


No one cares about what you think! Judging from your comments, you seem to be an ignorant fool who thinks really highly of himself and completely closed minded at the same time.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby Stringer Bell » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:54 pm

delBarco wrote:
rman1201 wrote:
delBarco wrote:and fwiw, I can't find the study (I just tried), but the fail rate of startup law firms is between 75-80%.


Isn't that better than the rate for all small businesses in general?

I don't know, but you're looking at a 1/4 to 1/5 chance of NOT ending up financially ruined for the rest of your life, after wasting 4+ years no less. What kind of retard would take this gamble???


Right. I believe the failure rate of new businesses is somewhere in the 80% range, but there are tons of low upfront costs in alot of those businesses. For someone to rent a small space in a crappy part of town to open up a tailor shop is not going to take anywhere near the investment of time and capital that an average law degree will. I think less than 5% of Subways fail.

drummerboy
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby drummerboy » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:04 pm

very hostile

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lawfreak
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby lawfreak » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:07 pm

drummerboy wrote:very hostile


Just to clarify, I was referring to mr.papwtvr

drummerboy
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby drummerboy » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:10 pm

thanks i know im obnoxious but im just really trying to do the right thing for my future

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:11 pm

drummerboy wrote:ok what law schools in what states give a better option than Fl if youre willing to start up elsewhere? I really want to know. Ill go to most reasonable cities. Please be serious.Thanks

The funny situation about Florida is that they 1. Cities outside of Miami take to their own, so no matter what you're going to need connections 2. T14, or Vanderbilt because the regional prestige carries.

UF is indisputably the best law school in the state and they're looking incredibly grim right now. So the perfect combo is out of state school prestige combined with in state ties. Even schools like Emory where Florida firms recruit, you're going to need very good grades to have a realistic shot at a callback. Of course, connections is the way most kids who work in Florida will get their jobs, so having those would help.

It's good though, i'm glad you're asking questions now instead of blindly throwing yourself into the fire.




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