Starting your own firm...

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UCSD1984
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Starting your own firm...

Postby UCSD1984 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:46 pm

Why doesn't anyone on these forums discuss this possibility if they can't find a job or their BigLaw dreams are crushed? Usually starting your own firm dictates "crap" work, or whatever one would refer to it as (Civil, DUIs, Divorce, etc.). Just curious to know what all the elitists on this loud-ass forum think about it. Serious topic, serious question.

09042014
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:51 pm

UCSD1984 wrote:Why doesn't anyone on these forums discuss this possibility if they can't find a job or their BigLaw dreams are crushed? Usually starting your own firm dictates "crap" work, or whatever one would refer to it as (Civil, DUIs, Divorce, etc.). Just curious to know what all the elitists on this loud-ass forum think about it. Serious topic, serious question.


I dunno I'm learning almost no real law. Seems like I'd have no idea what hte fuck is going on.

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MrKappus
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby MrKappus » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:52 pm

UCSD1984 wrote:Why doesn't anyone on these forums discuss this possibility if they can't find a job or their BigLaw dreams are crushed? Usually starting your own firm dictates "crap" work, or whatever one would refer to it as (Civil, DUIs, Divorce, etc.). Just curious to know what all the elitists on this loud-ass forum think about it. Serious topic, serious question.


This is like asking "Why don't people routinely stage their own successful missions to the Moon?" The answer is "Because it's extremely difficult to maintain a reliable client-base, let alone build one." You sound like a 20 year-old. Stop asking stupid questions.

UCSD1984
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby UCSD1984 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:57 pm

MrKappus wrote:This is like asking "Why don't people routinely stage their own successful interstellar missions to the Moon?" The is "Because it's extremely difficult to maintain a reliable client-base, let alone build one." You sound like a 20 year-old. Stop asking stupid questions.


Awesome, let's compare building a client-base with an $800,000,000 project. Fantastic perspective dude. If you were to shadow a 30 year old who makes well over 100,000 a year that opened his own firm straight out of Law School (or maybe after 1-2 years), would your first question be "How impossible is it?" If that's your insecure approach, I fear for your future.

Edit: Not saying that >100,000 a year is typical for someone who opened their own firm straight out of Law School or thereabouts in a time frame. I do know a guy, but that is just 1 guy.

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romothesavior
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby romothesavior » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:04 pm

UCSD1984 wrote:Why doesn't anyone on these forums discuss this possibility if they can't find a job or their BigLaw dreams are crushed? Usually starting your own firm dictates "crap" work, or whatever one would refer to it as (Civil, DUIs, Divorce, etc.). Just curious to know what all the elitists on this loud-ass forum think about it. Serious topic, serious question.

If you want a serious discussion on your serious question (never mind the fact that it has been asked 1,000 times before on here), you should probably not preface the discussion by insulting the entire community you pose the question to. Just a thought.

You wanna know why people don't view it as a great option? Go pick up a phone book. Flip through the yellow pages. Count up how many solo and small firms you find. Go count them and we'll wait for you to come back. Should keep you busy for a few hours, I'd think. Also, how much do you think a recent law grad knows about arguing a case in court, filing motions, building a client base, researching a case from start to finish, or managing their case load? Probably not enough to make me wanna take my chances with being sued for malpractice. And how many grads do you think have the start up capital to rent an office, hire a secretary, place ads, and subscribe to a research database? Not many there either.

Some can do it. It is possible. But it is tremendously difficult, and the market for it is oversaturated everywhere you go.

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:05 pm

It is not impossible. But success is not probable (like you said you have but one example). Law school, on the whole, does not teach you how to run a firm or the ins and outs of being a practicing attorney. That you learn on the job. Sure, 2 summers at a firm may give you some perspective on it, but not enough to go out on your own.

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MrKappus
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby MrKappus » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:05 pm

UCSD1984 wrote:Awesome, let's compare building a client-base with an $800,000,000 project. Fantastic perspective dude. If you were to shadow a 30 year old who makes well over 100,000 a year that opened his own firm straight out of Law School (or maybe after 1-2 years), would your first question be "How impossible is it?" If that's your insecure approach, I fear for your future.

Edit: Not saying that >100,000 a year is typical for someone who opened their own firm straight out of Law School or thereabouts in a time frame. I do know a guy, but that is just 1 guy.


My future's looking pretty OK, but thanks for the concern. If you can't grasp hyperbole, then "I fear for your future." The reason most people don't start sustainable (let alone successful) firms right out of LS is b/c they have no experience and no layperson gives a fuck about what that attorney thinks of their case.

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MrKappus
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby MrKappus » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:07 pm

romothesavior wrote:
UCSD1984 wrote:Why doesn't anyone on these forums discuss this possibility if they can't find a job or their BigLaw dreams are crushed? Usually starting your own firm dictates "crap" work, or whatever one would refer to it as (Civil, DUIs, Divorce, etc.). Just curious to know what all the elitists on this loud-ass forum think about it. Serious topic, serious question.

If you want a serious discussion on your serious question (never mind the fact that it has been asked 1,000 times before on here), you should probably not preface the discussion by insulting the entire community you pose the question to. Just a thought.

You wanna know why people don't view it as a great option? Go pick up a phone book. Flip through the yellow pages. Count up how many solo and small firms you find. Go count them and we'll wait for you to come back. Should keep you busy for a few hours, I'd think. Also, how much do you think a recent law grad knows about arguing a case in court, filing motions, building a client base, researching a case from start to finish, or managing their case load? Probably not enough to make me wanna take my chances with being sued for malpractice. And how many grads do you think have the start up capital to rent an office, hire a secretary, place ads, and subscribe to a research database? Not many there either.

Some can do it. It is possible. But it is tremendously difficult, and the market for it is oversaturated everywhere you go.


Also, I'm sorry I posted at all, b/c I should have just quoted the above and wrote "+1".

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:08 pm

MrKappus wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
UCSD1984 wrote:Why doesn't anyone on these forums discuss this possibility if they can't find a job or their BigLaw dreams are crushed? Usually starting your own firm dictates "crap" work, or whatever one would refer to it as (Civil, DUIs, Divorce, etc.). Just curious to know what all the elitists on this loud-ass forum think about it. Serious topic, serious question.

If you want a serious discussion on your serious question (never mind the fact that it has been asked 1,000 times before on here), you should probably not preface the discussion by insulting the entire community you pose the question to. Just a thought.

You wanna know why people don't view it as a great option? Go pick up a phone book. Flip through the yellow pages. Count up how many solo and small firms you find. Go count them and we'll wait for you to come back. Should keep you busy for a few hours, I'd think. Also, how much do you think a recent law grad knows about arguing a case in court, filing motions, building a client base, researching a case from start to finish, or managing their case load? Probably not enough to make me wanna take my chances with being sued for malpractice. And how many grads do you think have the start up capital to rent an office, hire a secretary, place ads, and subscribe to a research database? Not many there either.

Some can do it. It is possible. But it is tremendously difficult, and the market for it is oversaturated everywhere you go.


Also, I'm sorry I posted at all, b/c I should have just quoted the above and wrote "+1".


I too share this sentiment.

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Grond
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby Grond » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:09 pm

CHECK YOU FOONBERG

edit: ok, to clarify.

http://foonberglaw.com/lessons-from-a-s ... ctitioner/

Jay Foonberg is the guru in this area. Check out his articles/book and see if that's the sort of thing you are interested in and/or capable of.

UCSD1984
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby UCSD1984 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:13 pm

romothesavior wrote:
UCSD1984 wrote:Why doesn't anyone on these forums discuss this possibility if they can't find a job or their BigLaw dreams are crushed? Usually starting your own firm dictates "crap" work, or whatever one would refer to it as (Civil, DUIs, Divorce, etc.). Just curious to know what all the elitists on this loud-ass forum think about it. Serious topic, serious question.

If you want a serious discussion on your serious question (never mind the fact that it has been asked 1,000 times before on here), you should probably not preface the discussion by insulting the entire community you pose the question to. Just a thought.

You wanna know why people don't view it as a great option? Go pick up a phone book. Flip through the yellow pages. Count up how many solo and small firms you find. Go count them and we'll wait for you to come back. Should keep you busy for a few hours, I'd think. Also, how much do you think a recent law grad knows about arguing a case in court, filing motions, building a client base, researching a case from start to finish, or managing their case load? Probably not enough to make me wanna take my chances with being sued for malpractice. And how many grads do you think have the start up capital to rent an office, hire a secretary, place ads, and subscribe to a research database? Not many there either.

Some can do it. It is possible. But it is tremendously difficult, and the market for it is oversaturated everywhere you go.


Honestly, I was intending to insult anyone. If "loud-ass forum" and "elitists" insults anyone on here, I'd be surprised considering some of that crap I've seen people write to others. If I did insult anyone, my apologies...those weren't my intentions...except for that Kappus guy. He can go to hell.

Thanks for the response Romo, makes perfect sense.

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MrKappus
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby MrKappus » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:13 pm

UCSD1984 wrote:Honestly, I was intending to insult anyone. If "loud-ass forum" and "elitists" insults anyone on here, I'd be surprised considering some of that crap I've seen people write to others. If I did insult anyone, my apologies...those weren't my intentions...except for that Kappus guy. He can go to hell.

Thanks for the response Romo, makes perfect sense.


You sound like an idiot. I fear for your future.

UCSD1984
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby UCSD1984 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:15 pm

Don't fear for me, I'm set for life no matter what the hell I do.

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romothesavior
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby romothesavior » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:16 pm

UCSD1984 wrote:Honestly, I was intending to insult anyone. If "loud-ass forum" and "elitists" insults anyone on here, I'd be surprised considering some of that crap I've seen people write to others. If I did insult anyone, my apologies...those weren't my intentions.

Thanks for the response Romo, makes perfect sense.

No problem. And I wasn't really insulted, I just get tired of the "elitist" card being thrown around, especially by 0Ls. TLS is harsh and TLS is mean, and TLS is probably even wrong about a lot of things, but I certainly don't think we're elitist. We (and by "we" I mean the forum veterans and those of us in law school) are just realists about how things are. But overall I think TLS is an invaluable tool, and I can't imagine where I would have ended up without it.

UCSD1984
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby UCSD1984 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:20 pm

romothesavior wrote:
UCSD1984 wrote:Honestly, I was intending to insult anyone. If "loud-ass forum" and "elitists" insults anyone on here, I'd be surprised considering some of that crap I've seen people write to others. If I did insult anyone, my apologies...those weren't my intentions.

Thanks for the response Romo, makes perfect sense.

No problem. And I wasn't really insulted, I just get tired of the "elitist" card being thrown around, especially by 0Ls. TLS is harsh and TLS is mean, and TLS is probably even wrong about a lot of things, but I certainly don't think we're elitist. We (and by "we" I mean the forum veterans and those of us in law school) are just realists about how things are. But overall I think TLS is an invaluable tool, and I can't imagine where I would have ended up without it.


I know what you mean, but I think TLS is more "realistic" than it is mean, although I do agree it can be wrong about some things. Nonetheless, the amount of "slaps to reality" I've received from the 4 weeks I've been on these Forums is indeed invaluable. My entire view of Law School has changed, and definitely for the best. It makes me realize that all the conversations I've had with my current (now 2L and 3L) friends is absolute "kaput." I wish they had discovered this site, or a site like it, prior to attending Law School.

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MrKappus
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby MrKappus » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:26 pm

UCSD1984 wrote:Don't fear for me, I'm set for life no matter what the hell I do.


* gag *

What an insufferable tool...

drummerboy
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby drummerboy » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:49 pm

you guys are so wrapped up in the quick fix of big law that youre afraid to go out and pound pavement. there are no quick fixes in law or any other profession. you have to create demand for your services. sorry, but thats the reality no matter which path you take. i can promise you that once you get into the coveted big law job you will be swallowed up and then spit out if you dont bring in clients and make lots of cash for the firm. oh thats right, the same thing you would do if you were solo. only difference, someone is breathing down your neck and considers you as expendable as a dirty pair of underwear.so good luck HYSgrads

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redsox
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby redsox » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:55 pm

UCSD1984 wrote:It makes me realize that all the conversations I've had with my current (now 2L and 3L) friends is absolute "kaput."


What?

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MrKappus
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby MrKappus » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:00 am

redsox wrote:
UCSD1984 wrote:It makes me realize that all the conversations I've had with my current (now 2L and 3L) friends is absolute "kaput."


What?


Haha.

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pu_golf88
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby pu_golf88 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:02 am

redsox wrote:
UCSD1984 wrote:It makes me realize that all the conversations I've had with my current (now 2L and 3L) friends is absolute "kaput."


What?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=kaput

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TommyK
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby TommyK » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:02 am

drummerboy wrote:you guys are so wrapped up in the quick fix of big law that youre afraid to go out and pound pavement. there are no quick fixes in law or any other profession. you have to create demand for your services. sorry, but thats the reality no matter which path you take. i can promise you that once you get into the coveted big law job you will be swallowed up and then spit out if you dont bring in clients and make lots of cash for the firm. oh thats right, the same thing you would do if you were solo. only difference, someone is breathing down your neck and considers you as expendable as a dirty pair of underwear.so good luck HYSgrads


You make it sound so easy. It's not. It takes time to generate a list of clients and word of mouth. It's very possible to strike out on your own. You're just very likely to starve to death while you're trying to get your business to grow to the point where you're actually generating enough of a profit to pay for your ramen noodles.

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TommyK
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby TommyK » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:04 am

pu_golf88 wrote:
redsox wrote:
UCSD1984 wrote:It makes me realize that all the conversations I've had with my current (now 2L and 3L) friends is absolute "kaput."


What?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=kaput


Yeah, he's using that word wrong. The definition isn't broken or useless; it's broken and useless. A vaccuum can be kaput. Advice can't. So I echo the question "what?"

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redsox
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby redsox » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:06 am

TommyK wrote:
pu_golf88 wrote:
redsox wrote:
UCSD1984 wrote:It makes me realize that all the conversations I've had with my current (now 2L and 3L) friends is absolute "kaput."


What?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=kaput


Yeah, he's using that word wrong. The definition isn't broken or useless; it's broken and useless. A vaccuum can be kaput. Advice can't. So I echo the question "what?"


Also, "kaput" is an adjective. And conversations are plural.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=adjective
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=plural

drummerboy
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby drummerboy » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:10 am

you mean the risk of starting any business. god forbid anyone assumes risk.i cant wait to get out there and begin competing with those so dead set on the prospect of failure. my outcome, success.

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: Starting your own firm...

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:11 am

drummerboy wrote:you mean the risk of starting any business. god forbid anyone assumes risk.i cant wait to get out there and begin competing with those so dead set on the prospect of failure. my outcome, success.


Are you really comparing starting a law firm with starting some small business like a deli? No offense to the deli owners out there, but I'm pretty sure that there is a difference between starting a small business and starting a law firm.




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