Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

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ShakeDemHatersOff
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby ShakeDemHatersOff » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:42 pm

Columbia's prestige gets downplayed in this site for some reason. Maybe its the insecure NYU grads who wanna latch themselves onto us.

Columbia has more supreme court justices than any other school not named Harvard or Yale. Columbia also has more presidents that attended than any school not named Harvard or Yale.

Pretty much any barometer puts Columbia more aligned with Harvard and Yale than with NYU or even Chicago. Sure Harvard and Yale are on another level BUT Columbia's prestige both lay and historical is no joke.

What other school has 3 Supreme Court CHIEF Justices? (Harvard and Yale don't even have this many I believe)

All the top firms (Wachtell, Cravath, S&C, etc.) have more Columbia associates and partners than any other school.

The Attorney General of the US and new Solicitor General are both Columbia Law Grads.

HYSC

:D

A&O
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby A&O » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:52 pm

ShakeDemHatersOff wrote:Columbia's prestige gets downplayed in this site for some reason. Maybe its the insecure NYU grads who wanna latch themselves onto us.

Columbia has more supreme court justices than any other school not named Harvard or Yale. Columbia also has more presidents that attended than any school not named Harvard or Yale.

Pretty much any barometer puts Columbia more aligned with Harvard and Yale than with NYU or even Chicago. Sure Harvard and Yale are on another level BUT Columbia's prestige both lay and historical is no joke.

What other school has 3 Supreme Court CHIEF Justices? (Harvard and Yale don't even have this many I believe)

All the top firms (Wachtell, Cravath, S&C, etc.) have more Columbia associates and partners than any other school.

The Attorney General of the US and new Solicitor General are both Columbia Law Grads.

HYSC

:D


Another fact to add to your arbitrary list of what makes a school elite:

Columbia is the best law school in Morningside Heights.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby Bildungsroman » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:59 pm

Columbia doesn't have 3 chief justices, just Hughes and Stone. Nobody's impressed by the metric of "the most supreme courts justices except for schools that have more". Columbia Law can claim exactly zero presidents as graduates (since FDR and Teddy both had the good sense to drop out of Columbia's JD program), while Harvard, Yale, Duke, Albany, and Cincinnati can.

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CG614
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby CG614 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:48 am

Bildungsroman wrote:Columbia doesn't have 3 chief justices, just Hughes and Stone. Nobody's impressed by the metric of "the most supreme courts justices except for schools that have more". Columbia Law can claim exactly zero presidents as graduates (since FDR and Teddy both had the good sense to drop out of Columbia's JD program), while Harvard, Yale, Duke, Albany, and Cincinnati can.

Not advocating the same viewpoint of the poster, but perhaps he was referring to John Jay as the third.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby Bildungsroman » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:53 am

CG614 wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:Columbia doesn't have 3 chief justices, just Hughes and Stone. Nobody's impressed by the metric of "the most supreme courts justices except for schools that have more". Columbia Law can claim exactly zero presidents as graduates (since FDR and Teddy both had the good sense to drop out of Columbia's JD program), while Harvard, Yale, Duke, Albany, and Cincinnati can.

Not advocating the same viewpoint of the poster, but perhaps he was referring to John Jay as the third.


John Jay didn't go to Columbia for law school though.

I'm not saying that Columbia is a bad school or anything, just that ShakeDemHatersOff's trolling for Columbia was a little over the top.

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CG614
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby CG614 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:58 am

Bildungsroman wrote:
CG614 wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:Columbia doesn't have 3 chief justices, just Hughes and Stone. Nobody's impressed by the metric of "the most supreme courts justices except for schools that have more". Columbia Law can claim exactly zero presidents as graduates (since FDR and Teddy both had the good sense to drop out of Columbia's JD program), while Harvard, Yale, Duke, Albany, and Cincinnati can.

Not advocating the same viewpoint of the poster, but perhaps he was referring to John Jay as the third.


John Jay didn't go to Columbia for law school though.

I'm not saying that Columbia is a bad school or anything, just that ShakeDemHatersOff's trolling for Columbia was a little over the top.


There was no such thing as "law school" when John Jay did his thing, but he did go to King's College, which is the former name of Columbia.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby Bildungsroman » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:02 am

CG614 wrote:
There was no such thing as "law school" when John Jay did his thing

I don't think you can credit John Jay as a Columbia law grad in that situation. He studied law and was admitted to the bar 4 years after he left Columbia. Just because Columbia was the last school Jay attended before becoming a lawyer doesn't mean the (then-nonexistent) Columbia law school gets to claim him as a grad.

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Geat27
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby Geat27 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:42 am

Not being from Yale, I nonetheless think there is a great case that it is the only elite American law school.

It is the only highly regarded institution that maintains a scholarly atmosphere and avoids an attitude of competitiveness among its students.

Harvard must necessarily be elided because of its nasty educational environment.

At the highest level of the profession, only Yale- and Harvard-trained lawyers are consistently present.

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ahduth
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby ahduth » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:50 am

I don't know anything about college football, but it probably has something to do with that.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby Stanford4Me » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:58 am

When I think about Yale I get a warm and fuzzy feeling.

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ahduth
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby ahduth » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:02 am

Stanford4Me wrote:When I think about Yale I get a warm and fuzzy feeling.


Is it a general sensation or is it localized? And if it's localized, where? You might be able to just shake it off, or ice it. A more general sensation might require medication.

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kazu
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby kazu » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:04 am

Stanford4Me wrote:When I think about Yale I get a warm and fuzzy feeling.

Me too.

slacker
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby slacker » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:21 am

Yale is the only one that fits the definition of elite considering it's the only school that would be on every single list.

A&O
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby A&O » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:16 am

slacker wrote:Yale is the only one that fits the definition of elite considering it's the only school that would be on every single list.


It's not the best law school in Morningside Heights, so it's clearly not superior to Yale.

ShakeDemHatersOff
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby ShakeDemHatersOff » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:53 am

Bildungsroman wrote:
CG614 wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:Columbia doesn't have 3 chief justices, just Hughes and Stone. Nobody's impressed by the metric of "the most supreme courts justices except for schools that have more". Columbia Law can claim exactly zero presidents as graduates (since FDR and Teddy both had the good sense to drop out of Columbia's JD program), while Harvard, Yale, Duke, Albany, and Cincinnati can.

Not advocating the same viewpoint of the poster, but perhaps he was referring to John Jay as the third.


John Jay didn't go to Columbia for law school though.

I'm not saying that Columbia is a bad school or anything, just that ShakeDemHatersOff's trolling for Columbia was a little over the top.


sorry that facts are a problem but after Harvard and Yale

Columbia has the greatest historical prestige. Stanford has only surpassed it for the past 50 years or so.

NYU has never been relevant. Chicago however is cool.

Elite Law Schools = Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Columbia, & Chicago. PERIOD

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby Bildungsroman » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:59 am

ShakeDemHatersOff wrote:Columbia has the greatest historical prestige.


And if this were a history class we might care.

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ahduth
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby ahduth » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:36 am

Bildungsroman wrote:
ShakeDemHatersOff wrote:Columbia has the greatest historical prestige.


And if this were a history class we might care.


I thought that's exactly what this was?

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby Bildungsroman » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:39 am

ahduth wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
ShakeDemHatersOff wrote:Columbia has the greatest historical prestige.


And if this were a history class we might care.


I thought that's exactly what this was?


Not really. Albany, Cincinnati, Cumberland, Northwestern, and W&L have all had two SCOTUS justices attend their law schools, but I doubt a reasonable person would say that their prestige or their elite status decades ago should really have any impact on how we view them today.

A&O
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby A&O » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:42 pm

ShakeDemHatersOff wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
CG614 wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:Columbia doesn't have 3 chief justices, just Hughes and Stone. Nobody's impressed by the metric of "the most supreme courts justices except for schools that have more". Columbia Law can claim exactly zero presidents as graduates (since FDR and Teddy both had the good sense to drop out of Columbia's JD program), while Harvard, Yale, Duke, Albany, and Cincinnati can.

Not advocating the same viewpoint of the poster, but perhaps he was referring to John Jay as the third.


John Jay didn't go to Columbia for law school though.

I'm not saying that Columbia is a bad school or anything, just that ShakeDemHatersOff's trolling for Columbia was a little over the top.


sorry that facts are a problem but after Harvard and Yale

Columbia has the greatest historical prestige. Stanford has only surpassed it for the past 50 years or so.

NYU has never been relevant. Chicago however is cool.

Elite Law Schools = Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Columbia, & Chicago. PERIOD


You must not have a lot of friends.

Sandro
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby Sandro » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:18 pm

ITT every poster will define elite as all of the schools including theirs and ranked higher. Just like how LS is only a good idea at X school or higher, or to get this job you have to go to X schools or higher.

If you take some time to associate people with what school they go to and then compare that to the kind of rankings/job advice they get you will notice it. IE kids at Vandy will use T17 prevalently, lower T14s will use that as the cutoff for most things. Its kinda funny to watch because at TLS we have trolls from pretty much each school.

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blazinswordofjustice
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby blazinswordofjustice » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:50 pm

KibblesAndVick wrote:
r6_philly wrote:Princeton Law, maybe Dartmouth Law (not UMass Dartmouth)


"Princeton University does award honorary degrees of law. Sonia Sotomayor, then Circuit Judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit now Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States received an Honorary Doctor of Law Degrees from Princeton University."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princeton_Law_School

They've given out less than 200 law degrees. Bill Clinton has one. So do Lawrence Summers and Paul Volker. Kofi Annan got one too, but he was URM.


Kofi annan got one too but he was URM....hahaha

ShakeDemHatersOff
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby ShakeDemHatersOff » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:03 am

Bildungsroman wrote:
ahduth wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
ShakeDemHatersOff wrote:Columbia has the greatest historical prestige.


And if this were a history class we might care.


I thought that's exactly what this was?


Not really. Albany, Cincinnati, Cumberland, Northwestern, and W&L have all had two SCOTUS justices attend their law schools, but I doubt a reasonable person would say that their prestige or their elite status decades ago should really have any impact on how we view them today.


well if they were also ranked #4 then maybe people would go there

CLS is top 4 and has more justices and top people in government than every school except Harvard and Yale.

I also believe that in the recent US News and World Report their PRESTIGE RATING was equal to Stanford's if I'm not mistaken among lawyers and judges.

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CG614
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby CG614 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:16 am

ShakeDemHatersOff wrote:
well if they were also ranked #4 then maybe people would go there

CLS is top 4 and has more justices and top people in government than every school except Harvard and Yale.

I also believe that in the recent US News and World Report their PRESTIGE RATING was equal to Stanford's if I'm not mistaken among lawyers and judges.


CLS puts the team on it's back

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The Stig
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby The Stig » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:36 am

ShakeDemHatersOff wrote:
I also believe that in the recent US News and World Report their PRESTIGE RATING was equal to Stanford's if I'm not mistaken among lawyers and judges.


Unfortunately,
Lawyers and Judges:
1 Yale
1 Harvard
1 Stanford
4 Columbia
4 Chicago
6 UVA

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=146039

But more seriously, I find it entertaining when people post T_ as some arbitrary cutoff, where _=the ranking of the school they attend.. T7=you got to berkeley, etc. etc.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Ok, let's be realistic...which law schools are elite?

Postby Lawquacious » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:51 am

Geat27 wrote:Not being from Yale, I nonetheless think there is a great case that it is the only elite American law school.

It is the only highly regarded institution that maintains a scholarly atmosphere and avoids an attitude of competitiveness among its students.

Harvard must necessarily be elided because of its nasty educational environment.

At the highest level of the profession, only Yale- and Harvard-trained lawyers are consistently present.



I kind of see where you are coming from on this, and I think the atmospheric point is a good one, but I also think this is overstated (assuming you were even being sincere in the first place, but it sounds like you were).

Although some of the other very top schools such as Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, and Chicago may have a more competitive feel (after the admissions process), I think its a hard argument to make that all those schools are not equally capable of producing serious world-class legal scholars, or that they infrequently do so. In fact, I think Chicago is one of the more scholarly law schools out there, and that, at least from an academic ivory-tower perspective, it probably isn't looked at all that differently than Yale in terms of the quality and reputation of some of the scholars produced and those on faculty. But I think the same can be said for many or all of the T14 schools; to argue that only the Yale environment is capable of producing serious academic legal scholars is definitely an overstatement IMO.
Last edited by Lawquacious on Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:53 am, edited 2 times in total.




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